Plans, Trades, and Automobiles: Fixing the Winged Wheel

[RedHawkDown]

LOOOOOL HOLY CRAP.

If we resign Cleary, oh god. OH GOD.

I don't think I'll be able to watch the team play with him on it.

 

[SoupNazi]

My distaste for Cleary and disgust with Holland has been well documented here, but I think there's a lot of overreacting to the news that Cleary might re-sign. I'd bet this was turned into a story by the media when in reality it was probably just a meeting between the two camps about Cleary's future with the organization - and that conversation probably included as much talk about a position in the front office as it did a spot on the roster.

In reality, this is par for the course with most veterans who have been a part of the organization for roughly a decade or more.

Agreed. Although Holland is doing lip service about Cleary getting a chance to "bounce back" my thought is that there really isn't a story here yet. The time for overreacting is when he signs. It hasn't happened yet, and hopefully Holland will realize that Babcock already has his Cleary in Glendening (and yeah, I think Glendening is a much better hockey player at this point) and tell Cleary that a front office job awaits him if he wants it.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

My distaste for Cleary and disgust with Holland has been well documented here, but I think there's a lot of overreacting to the news that Cleary might re-sign. I'd bet this was turned into a story by the media when in reality it was probably just a meeting between the two camps about Cleary's future with the organization - and that conversation probably included as much talk about a position in the front office as it did a spot on the roster.

In reality, this is par for the course with most veterans who have been a part of the organization for roughly a decade or more.

There isn't much of anything else for us to do, so we might as well speculate on the idea that Cleary will play hockey in Michigan considering it smacked us in the face last season.

 

[Coffee Time]

smacked us 50 times over

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Agreed. Although Holland is doing lip service about Cleary getting a chance to "bounce back" my thought is that there really isn't a story here yet. The time for overreacting is when he signs. It hasn't happened yet, and hopefully Holland will realize that Babcock already has his Cleary in Glendening (and yeah, I think Glendening is a much better hockey player at this point) and tell Cleary that a front office job awaits him if he wants it.

Naturally a fringe 4th line NHL winger is better than a "depth" forward.

 

[Cbdudek]

Every article I have read about Cleary being resigned involves a 2 way contract and him having to earn a spot with the Wings. What I envision is Cleary playing for the Griffins next season and providing leadership for them. For as much talent as the Griffins have, they would benefit from some veteran leadership in Cleary. Plus, it would segway him into his next career with the Wings in the front office either as a player development coach or something along those lines.

The one thing Cleary has is heart. That is something that could be taught to every player coming into our system.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I see the HSJ and Cleary spin is underway today. Important that Holland has said nothing on this. Last season he had we need to see if Cleary will work while he wasn't a priority for him and was for Babcock. This article is noticeably missing that and all the comments from Holland have not hinted at this. I get that they want to honor what they told him, but he gambled and lost. Besides a part of that gamble was no doubt a front office job, something they could still give him today if he was willing to be realistic and accept his playing days are over. Instead the spin twosome is out, lets see if Babcock is willing to make it a trio again.

I think the silence from Holland on Cleary is much different this year, promised turnover and talked about the kids up front, didn't say he wanted to do anything with the older players, much different tone on record this year. Not even a hint of this being an option, though Ilitch will be big on honoring something, I just think he should know going in the plan is for him to be in Grand Rapids all year and the offer is 900K two way.

 

[Shaman464]

Every article I have read about Cleary being resigned involves a 2 way contract and him having to earn a spot with the Wings. What I envision is Cleary playing for the Griffins next season and providing leadership for them. For as much talent as the Griffins have, they would benefit from some veteran leadership in Cleary. Plus, it would segway him into his next career with the Wings in the front office either as a player development coach or something along those lines.

The one thing Cleary has is heart. That is something that could be taught to every player coming into our system.

There is a maximum number of veterans that the Griffins can carry on their roster, and they were 2 over that last season.

So, barring them shedding three veterans on the Griffins his playing for the Griffins would violate their rules.

 

[Frk It]

I see the HSJ and Cleary spin is underway today. Important that Holland has said nothing on this.

Not quite.

"When he signed here last year for a one-year deal we had conversations beyond one year because he had contract offers of three years from a couple of teams," general manager Ken Holland said.

"He's coming off a real tough season," Holland said. "I know he's working really hard to try to get some leg strength to give himself the best opportunity he can for a bounce back year."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/06/red_wings_in_contract_talks_wi.html

 

[we like our team*]

doesnt matter if it's a two way or one way deal

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Not quite.



http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/06/red_wings_in_contract_talks_wi.html

Different tone still for me. We will see, I do think Holland was ready to move on last year, he has much more of a Homer, Knuble and Maltby look at this.

Now like you said the worry is he allows him to sit in GR and Babcock beats down his door for him everyday.

Something Cleary should keep in mind is even if his leg is a little better he could lose the competition in camp still because his status is different and they have told him going in a roster spot is not insured. He would then be exposed to waivers. Would a team like Edmonton or NYI jump on him? He needs to think about that, we might find the notion absurd, but the things that would make him okay if he was willing to sit in a bus are things some of the more desperate franchise might be willing to put him on an NHL roster still. They would be misguided but he is a guy who has a reputation that might see him continue to get opportunities in the league he doesn't deserve.

 

[Henkka]

we can have him as a scout or trainer or whatever as that is showing loyalty,

That's what will happen.

 

[Frk It]

Now like you said the worry is he allows him to sit in GR and Babcock beats down his door for him everyday.

Yeah. It's like giving a junkie a needle and telling him he can't use it.

 

[Shaman464]

The reason why signing then burying Cleary in Grand Rapids can't be what they are planning:

What is the AHL's development rule?
In the AHL, player development is a top priority. The American Hockey League and the Professional Hockey Players' Association have the following development rule in place for the 2013-14 season:

Of the 18 skaters (not counting two goaltenders) that teams may dress for a game, at least 13 must be qualified as "development players." Of those 13, 12 must have played in 260 or fewer professional games (including AHL, NHL and European elite leagues), and one must have played in 320 or fewer professional games. All calculations for development status are based on regular-season totals as of the start of the season.

 

[Henkka]

There is a maximum number of veterans that the Griffins can carry on their roster, and they were 2 over that last season.

So, barring them shedding three veterans on the Griffins his playing for the Griffins would violate their rules.

There's only Paetsch, Hoggan and Grant left? Evans could be extended or could be not. McIntyre, Tootoo, Eaves and Emmerton were counted on that veteran rule when they over that 5 limit. All are gone so there's 2 vet spots open.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

There's only Paetsch, Hoggan and Grant left? Evans could be extended or could be not. McIntyre, Tootoo, Eaves and Emmerton were counted on that veteran rule when they over that 5 limit. All are gone so there's 2 vet spots open.

Grant isn't signed last time I checked.

 

[Shaman464]

There's only Paetsch, Hoggan and Grant left? Evans could be extended or could be not. McIntyre, Tootoo, Eaves and Emmerton were counted on that veteran rule when they over that 5 limit. All are gone so there's 2 vet spots open.

They have Patesch, Hoggan, Grant, right now, Andersson is a safe bet to be demoted with Babcock's man love for Slow hand Luke. Emmerton is an RFA and I see him coming back cheap and going to the AHL. That's 5 right there, add Cleary and you have 6 without breaking a sweat.

Edit: Pulkkinen, Coetzee and AA are all also getting close to 260 games pro. (All will eclipse that number at different points in 2014-2015)

 

[Kronwalled55]

In no way whatsoever do I ever want to see Cleary in a Wings jersey ever again, but I actually like the idea of him playing in Grand Rapids and mentoring prospects.

His path in the NHL makes him a great example for kids coming in who don't yet realize how hard it is to transition from juniors to professional hockey.

If he can use his history and struggles trying to earn an NHL roster spot to help some of our prospects (Mantha in particular) its well worth a cheap 2 way contract.

Sign him to a assistant coaching or training job then. Blashill is already great at mentoring young players. I was more inclined to accept Rafalski back over Cleary before he called it quits.

 

[Frk It]

They have Patesch, Hoggan, Grant, right now, Andersson is a safe bet to be demoted with Babcock's man love for Slow hand Luke. Emmerton is an RFA and I see him coming back cheap and going to the AHL. That's 5 right there, add Cleary and you have 6 without breaking a sweat.

Emmerton signed a deal with a KHL team. He's gone.

 

[Shaman464]

Emmerton signed a deal with a KHL team. He's gone.

Crap, you're right. He's so forgettable I forgot he bolted to the Great White North.

But there are also three players that are just under 260, and will be north of that number by the end of next season barring major injuries.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Crap, you're right. He's so forgettable I forgot he bolted to the Great White North.

But there are also three players that are just under 260, and will be north of that number by the end of next season barring major injuries.

Pretty sure that applies to the start of the season or when you're put on the roster. McIntyre never went up to full veteran status as he was in the special exemption spot in terms of being under a threshold that he passed like 5 games into the season. There is an in between vet spot too which often gets misunderstood.

They did already answer the top 6 center spot in terms of Nosek. I think another AHL vet down the middle would not be a bad idea. This team is poised to meet up with Texas and go the whole way next year. Cleary isn't bad for that assuming he wants to play a vet role and start his coaching gig down there. The problem is how long will Babcock let him be down there before he starts making his case. Also because of the player Cleary is, he isn't a guy I don't think won't give maximum effort just because he is down there, he just isn't that type of player. I don't know where his knee is at, but it might be just good enough to look okay at the AHL level and give the management and coaching staff too much to think about with a guy they all love.

Wonder where Blashill would stand on this. Remember a part of his demotion/re-assignment (has been good for us but man has that narrative changed) was that he clashed and got a lack of respect from some of the veteran leaders. Well I am assuming Cleary was one of those guys. Babcock might love him, Holland might like him a great deal, but does Blash remember him as a problem when he was trying to break through as an assistant.

 

[Crymson]

I'm still struggling to comprehend why Babcock and Holland wanted Cleary back so desperately that they promised to employ him past last season regardless of how he played. To do this for anyone was completely asinine, not to mention unprecedented (and possibly against league regulations)... and it was done for Dan Cleary, of all people?

Cleary himself said that he'd left that money on the table because he loves the organization and the city. Apparently that wasn't the whole truth. Apparently Holland's statement on the matter last September wasn't entirely true either:

He’s 34, let’s take a one-year deal and trust that things will work out based on the coach knowing him, based upon the people that he knows in the locker room and the history of the ownership in Detroit.

That sounds more like "If he plays well, he'll probably get another contract." Apparently it meant, instead, "We'll give him another contract even if he plays terribly." If they're going to give him one despite his absolutely atrocious season, then why the hell didn't they just sign him for more than one year?

This just doesn't add up.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Wish Cleary would just get the **** out. Used to love the guy, but I'll mostly look back on him in a negative way now. Holland needs to grow some balls and just tell the dude he's not good enough.

 

[ElysiumAB]

Holland to sign Cleary???...

Was anyone else listening to 97.1 around 5:15 today?

There was an update that Holland is trying to trade Tootoo and sign Clearly.

No joke.

 

[Crymson]

The reason why signing then burying Cleary in Grand Rapids can't be what they are planning:

I'll be at wit's end with this organization if, after making a thoroughly idiotic accommodation (Nyquist) to have Cleary on the NHL roster last season, they go so far as to change up the Griffins' roster to play him there. At that point, I'll absolutely start calling for Holland's head, because this has become a patently ludicrous affair already.