GWT: PL Matchweek (mostly) 18 - on borrowed time?

[Jersey Fresh]

I mean, if you are saying that they are caving because Liverpool is a big team, than inversely Tottenham can’t be a big team too, right? Therefore, if they are not a big team they would be a small team. You can’t cave on two equivalent level teams, right? If anything they have egg on their face because they got called out for giving Kane (and his team) preferential treatment. Because you can’t red card the England captain I guess.

Yes I do think if they thought the ref had more of a leg to stand on Klopp would have seen some sort of a fine. As many have said, the overwhelming majority of the time the ref gets backed. That clearly didn’t happen here. Also they admitted fault on the Coufal red card today, so maybe out of all this there is actually some accountability for once. It’s a step in the right direction.

None of this is anything close to what Ferguson made a living off of, but I guess no social media back then

Your mistake is thinking that disciplining Klopp is a referendum on the calls that he was mad about. And that thinking leads you directly to your conclusion that not disciplining him is then an admission of Tierney's mistakes, justifying him getting Klopp's theories of a vendetta and just general anger with both barrels. It's bad, circular logic.

The discipline (or no discipline) of Klopp is solely a judgment on his conduct. Tottenham has absolutely no relevance to that, nor do any of the calls on the pitch. His conduct stands alone, regardless of the calls he was mad about. So caving to Liverpool is a decision being made with zero consideration to who they played. It could have been United, it doesn't matter.

I don't know why they didn't discipline him, ultimately we're both guessing. As a judgment, I think it sets them up to look stupid in the future - you can't let a manager get away with that. To me, I think it's Klopp's (Liverpool's) profile that gives him the leash, but I don't know and who knows with the morons that run the league.

The Coufal thing isn't the first time. I'd imagine some type of comment will be coming about the Liverpool match too.

 

[Savant]

There’s a significant difference between referee accountability and allowing a manager to repeatedly berate and official both during the game and to the media after it.

Correct. Which is why there has to be a reason that Klopp was let off the hook. Managers have been fined for less If it’s not because they know the ref was bad, what do we think the reason is? It’s absolutely not a club size/status thing either.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'll be extremely surprised if the PL are setting a new precedent here. Managers are going to keep getting fined for the smallest things and everybody will ask "But what about Klopp?".

 

[Savant]

Your mistake is thinking that disciplining Klopp is a referendum on the calls that he was mad about. And that thinking leads you directly to your conclusion that not disciplining him is then an admission of Tierney's mistakes, justifying him getting Klopp's theories of a vendetta and just general anger with both barrels. It's bad, circular logic.

The discipline (or no discipline) of Klopp is solely a judgment on his conduct. Tottenham has absolutely no relevance to that, nor do any of the calls on the pitch. His conduct stands alone, regardless of the calls he was mad about. So caving to Liverpool is a decision being made with zero consideration to who they played. It could have been United, it doesn't matter.

I don't know why they didn't discipline him, ultimately we're both guessing. As a judgment, I think it sets them up to look stupid in the future - you can't let a manager get away with that. To me, I think it's Klopp's (Liverpool's) profile that gives him the leash, but I don't know and who knows with the morons that run the league.

The Coufal thing isn't the first time. I'd imagine some type of comment will be coming about the Liverpool match too.

We aren’t too far apart here. I don’t think there is a massive conspiracy theory I just think the refs are bad and historically they are Teflon. In my mind, yes Klopp must not have gotten a fine because they knew there was some merit; but again that is simply because historically Klopp would have probably been fined. I do not think caving to Liverpool is a thing. That is more conspiracy based than ref bias in my opinion quite frankly. I agree with the last part. It’s strange, maybe they want to make the officiating more transparent/more accountable but either way this is very abrupt and unusual

 

[Evilo]

Is Konate switching Mali actually a thing?

I don't know but I'd bet on it. Too much depth here.

 

[Savant]

I don't know but I'd bet on it. Too much depth here.

It’s not impossible. I wonder how deep down the depth chart he is. His ceiling is as high as anyone else’s. But there are a lot of bodies in the way

 

[Evilo]

Fofana and Saliba probably hoped above him. Maybe Lacroix. And he still has plenty of older guys. And younger like Kouassi.

 

[gary69]

Fofana and Saliba probably hoped above him. Maybe Lacroix. And he still has plenty of older guys. And younger like Kouassi.

How much time do you think Kouassi has left in him to develop to a real high-quality defender? He turns 20 next summer, and hasn't played anywhere near a full season at adult level so far (he probably won't get relatively more games for rest of this season that he has had so far).

If he isn't a starter during his age 20-21 season, is there much hope left for him?

For example, Thiago Silva, who is an example of a late developer, didn't really become a starter at top level until age 22 (and at 25 in Europe), but he is rather an exeption than a rule. He had about 30 top level matches under him at the age of 21, Kouassi now has 21, so they're pretty much at same amount as of now in their respective career stages.

 

[Savant]

Fofana and Saliba probably hoped above him. Maybe Lacroix. And he still has plenty of older guys. And younger like Kouassi.

Ehhh Saliba maybe. Fofana; not after blowing his knee out. Lacroix no way, Konate better than Lacroix this season. Kouassi similar situation. You would think France might want Konate in because he is probably their best defender in the air if nothing else, But if he has to go to Mail, so be it. Maybe next AFCON

 

[luiginb]

So it turns out Grealish and Foden did go out after the Leeds game and reported in in bad condition the next morning

Love both players but incredibly stupid to do so during the social media age. Especially Grealish, he's older and should know better.

My dislike for English refs is well-known, but am I the only one here who thought Jota's penalty demand was iffy at best? I thought he was obviously looking for the contact.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

My dislike for English refs is well-known, but am I the only one here who thought Jota's penalty demand was iffy at best? I thought he was obviously looking for the contact.

I will answer this one. Jota set up a trap by slowing down in possession and using his body to protect the ball (football 101) which all players learn to do but there is a difference by waiting for a slight touch to go down over a full force at full speed push down like it happened on that play. It's penalty all day everyday, if not basically all contact should not be a foul anymore whatever the force which is obviously wrong.
If Jota is not touched he is in a glorious position to create a scoring chance too. It's not like he has no option on the side of the box and his only option is to win the PK (which a lot of player do). I call it the Sterling special. In the case of Jota we are talking of a player near the center of the box with no option to shot (Sanchez sliding to block the shot) he had to stop and I am assuming if no contact he would have switched his body to shot with his right boot but who knows, he got hit on the back in the process. Anyway, that is a foul everywhere on the field and it's an obvious PK.

They explain it too on this video.

 

[bluesfan94]

I mean, if you are saying that they are caving because Liverpool is a big team, than inversely Tottenham can’t be a big team too, right? Therefore, if they are not a big team they would be a small team. You can’t cave on two equivalent level teams, right? If anything they have egg on their face because they got called out for giving Kane (and his team) preferential treatment. Because you can’t red card the England captain I guess.

Yes I do think if they thought the ref had more of a leg to stand on Klopp would have seen some sort of a fine. As many have said, the overwhelming majority of the time the ref gets backed. That clearly didn’t happen here. Also they admitted fault on the Coufal red card today, so maybe out of all this there is actually some accountability for once. It’s a step in the right direction.

None of this is anything close to what Ferguson made a living off of, but I guess no social media back then

Not sure how the PL’s decision to not fine Klopp has anything to do with the size of Tottenham.

 

[PanniniClaus]

So it turns out Grealish and Foden did go out after the Leeds game and reported in in bad condition the next morning

Lots of room in the stands for them to watch on. and the team doesn't miss a beat.

 

[Evilo]

How much time do you think Kouassi has left in him to develop to a real high-quality defender? He turns 20 next summer, and hasn't played anywhere near a full season at adult level so far (he probably won't get relatively more games for rest of this season that he has had so far).

If he isn't a starter during his age 20-21 season, is there much hope left for him?

For example, Thiago Silva, who is an example of a late developer, didn't really become a starter at top level until age 22 (and at 25 in Europe), but he is rather an exeption than a rule. He had about 30 top level matches under him at the age of 21, Kouassi now has 21, so they're pretty much at same amount as of now in their respective career stages.

Well he did make a risky choice when he was assured of decent playing time in Paris. He was used a lot in preseason this year.
Still he's insanely talented imo. Without the ball, with the ball.
I can't write him off yet. But indeed he does need to play.

 

[Evilo]

Ehhh Saliba maybe. Fofana; not after blowing his knee out. Lacroix no way, Konate better than Lacroix this season. Kouassi similar situation. You would think France might want Konate in because he is probably their best defender in the air if nothing else, But if he has to go to Mail, so be it. Maybe next AFCON

Lacroix is much faster than Konate and had a better year at 18 than Konate ever had.
Same for Fofana.
Konate will probably have to wait after the WC (same for the others). Varane will be past it and we should not see Lenglet again. Lucas and Kimpembe will still be there. Kounde too obviously.

 

[Power Man]

They're not. I think all the others you gave are though

You’re very welcome

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Lots of room in the stands for them to watch on. and the team doesn't miss a beat.

Given that Mendy has just been charged with raping a 6th woman, I think City have a bigger off field problem right now.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Given that Mendy has just been charged with raping a 6th woman, I think City have a bigger off field problem right now.

Mendy's career is done. They won't have to give him a second thought.

 

[S E P H]

Given that Mendy has just been charged with raping a 6th woman, I think City have a bigger off field problem right now.

First, I thought we were talking about Real Madrid's Mendy and then for a second I thought it was about Chelsea's Mendy, but realised this was Citeh's. He's only played two games for them this season, he hasn't even been in Pep's plans for the past two to three years and isn't even a distraction at this point. Innocent until proven guilty and if he is found guilty, then City can sweep him under the rug like he was ever there in the first place.

 

[Savant]

Not sure how Leicester went from this to that.