Speculation: PK Subban - Potentially Best Defenseman in Habs history?

[FlyingKostitsyn]

Oh really? Norris trophy, playoff performer, he sucks he should be a minor leaguer. Ignorance of some people is funny.

The same can be said of several HHOF former Habs defensemen who also won several cups and had the incredible honor of having their jerseys retired.

Please don't speak about ignorance... Disagreeing that PK is the best defensemen in Habs history (hockey's most successful franchise) does not equate saying he's a minor leaguer

As of now PK isn't even the best defensemen of his generation... Maybe he will keeps progressing and wins a few more Norrises and brings the cup home with a Conn Smythe but that's unlikely at best.

I think its best that you admit that Subban has a chance to become one of the top D in habs history and we can move on from this.

Talk about moving the goal posts... Subban has a good chance to become one of the top D in Habs history, thats a given. The best defensemen in Habs history however? Its a ridiculous claim at this point, its highly unlikely.

 

[groovejuice]

I'd suggest that he's already one of, of not the most exciting Dmen ever on the Habs.

His end to end rushes, sledgehammer hits, ridiculous giveaways, timely goals, monster slapper, poor decision making... et al, inherently make him exciting, or at least heart pounding.

Do I believe he can be the best?Maybe. Do I love watching him play? Absolutely.

Can he get better? Absolutely. Will he? Probably. Will he be our best ever? Unlikely.

 

[25get]

Orr led the NHL in scoring one season and performed other remarkable feats that no Hab Dman has ever matched and that none ever will. He amassed 915 points in 657 regular season games and 92 points in 74 playoff games. The noobies who compare Subban to Orr are naive. If I were building an expansion team from scratch and had a choice of Orr or Subban + Markov I'd take Orr. Would I be tempted otherwise? No, because I'd realize that in the same draft or the following two drafts I'd probably be able to pick some Dman who could complement him reasonably well.

Orr is the best d-men in NHL history.
He would clearly had been a clear notch better than Doug Harvey if he would have played as long.
Without injury, you could see Orr ahead of Gretzky...

PK will never reach the level of Orr.

So you need to put Orr and Harvey as the two top d-men.
Then Lidstrom...

After that Coffey, Bourque, Robinson, Chelios, Potvin, Leetch, MacInnnis, Stevens, Niedermayer are all ahead of PK.

Just looking at the current d-men: Doughty, Weber, Suter, Kalrsson (yes), Pietrangelo can all be arguably be ahead of PK.

If Pk improves significantly, he might be able to be ahead of Lapointe and Savard.
And we are seeing poster who wants to pay him 10+M

 

[25get]

I'd suggest that he's already one of, of not the most exciting Dmen ever on the Habs.

His end to end rushes, sledgehammer hits, ridiculous giveaways, timely goals, monster slapper, poor decision making... et al, inherently make him exciting, or at least heart pounding.

Do I believe he can be the best?Maybe. Do I love watching him play? Absolutely.

Can he get better? Absolutely. Will he? Probably. Will he be our best ever? Unlikely.

He does have a rush ability that is very good.
But that does not make him a top-5 d-men of the Habs yet...

I can see that he could score 60+ points.
But to get to Robinson and Chelios level he would need many seasons with 70+ points...

 

[ECWHSWI]

Playing on the best offensive team of all time in the most wide open scoring time certainly didnt help.

120 points... that's 1.50 PPG, think about that for a second.

 

[habscup*]

120 points... that's 1.50 PPG, think about that for a second.

Different era dude, the man spent more time in the offensive zone than most forwards.

 

[habscup*]

The same can be said of several HHOF former Habs defensemen who also won several cups and had the incredible honor of having their jerseys retired.

Please don't speak about ignorance... Disagreeing that PK is the best defensemen in Habs history (hockey's most successful franchise) does not equate saying he's a minor leaguer

As of now PK isn't even the best defensemen of his generation... Maybe he will keeps progressing and wins a few more Norrises and brings the cup home with a Conn Smythe but that's unlikely at best.



Talk about moving the goal posts... Subban has a good chance to become one of the top D in Habs history, thats a given. The best defensemen in Habs history however? Its a ridiculous claim at this point, its highly unlikely.

Where did I claim Subban was the best habs defenseman ever?

I really truly believe he will win 2 other norrises and yes if we have a great run it'll be either he or Price with the conn smythe.

 

[habscup*]

Orr is the best d-men in NHL history.
He would clearly had been a clear notch better than Doug Harvey if he would have played as long.
Without injury, you could see Orr ahead of Gretzky...

PK will never reach the level of Orr.

So you need to put Orr and Harvey as the two top d-men.
Then Lidstrom...

After that Coffey, Bourque, Robinson, Chelios, Potvin, Leetch, MacInnnis, Stevens, Niedermayer are all ahead of PK.

Just looking at the current d-men: Doughty, Weber, Suter, Kalrsson (yes), Pietrangelo can all be arguably be ahead of PK.

If Pk improves significantly, he might be able to be ahead of Lapointe and Savard.
And we are seeing poster who wants to pay him 10+M

Subban is ahead of Karlsson and Pietrangelo. Doughty is becoming overrated, he was a turnover machine in the finals. Weber and Suter I haven't seen much of these days so I wont comment.

 

[MtlBoxFan]

Not today based on accomplishments yet (he's still early in his career, obviously).

But do you believe that 10-15 years from now, assuming PK continues being as good as he's been and stays with the Habs, he will be looked at as the best d-man in Habs history?

If projecting so far in the future is too hard (whose to say he doesn't start sucking and retire in a yr or get injured after all), do you feel at least as though today, he is already the most *talented* d-man in habs history, or the one with most potential?

Personally, I strongly, strongly believe he is. But I will admit that I am young, in my lower 30s, so didn't witness first hand some of the older great teams plays. Nonetheless, judging solely by stats and my perception of some of these guys and what i've heard, I believe Subban has the potential to surpass them all.

Thoughts?

I was going to roast you on this but I'll put it this way. The habs are a 100 year old organization. They have 24 cups. You don't get that without having astounding d-men in their history.
Doug Harvey, Serge Savard, Larry Robindon, Guy Lapointe, Chris Chelios.
Honestly, if he can put up numbers like Chelios, I'll be more than in awe of his career.

 

[Boyon90]

to answer the question... no

and for those saying he,s the best ever and blablabla... no


could list a couple douzen dmen id take before him

and for the "more flashy" "entertaining" "wtf" dman ever in recent history... id go with the old Scott or Pronger..