"Pittsburgh Penguins" sale/arena/slots/etc. thread
- Thread starter CapitalPunishment
- Start date
skullman80
Registered User
Basillie may very well not be approved until after the Dec 20th deadline for that very reason.
willie
Registered User
How do you think Quebec City felt?
You've won 2 cups in 39 years, had probably the most skilled Canadian and most skilled European in the history of hockey and some really memorable years. As a Kings fan living in Leaf-land - I assure you - you've had it better than most.
To be honest, I have no sympathy that you would be losing a roster on the cusp of great things. The Pens have only accumulated this talent by poor management/sucking (Malkin, Fleury, Whitney) and blind luck. (Crosby)I do - however - have much sympathy for the mere fact of losing the franchise. I understand that a lot of people invest a lot of emotions into pro sports and that there is a good, solid nucleus of hockey fans in Southwest Pennsylvania. The only solace I could offer is that if did happen, is that it doesn't have to be forever.
Minneapolis-St.Paul lost a team to a stronger economic cluster in Dallas. But they earned that team back. Ditto for Northern California. If you can't get this arena done and the team does move, there will always be opportunities for Pittsburgh to get back in the game.
Basilie is a pretty big hockey guy apparently. He's named boardrooms at RIM after hockey legends, he paid alot of money to appear in a charity game with his boyhood idol Lafleur, and he practices and trains for his mens league team with a member of the Kitchener Rangers staff.
Point is, I'm doubt his first priority is what's good for the NHL economically speaking. I'm fairly sure that if he was granted an expansion team, the KW-Cambridge-Hamilton-Burlington area would be his first (or only) choice for a team. If it's just not gonna work in Pittsburgh, I doubt he'll happily leave the team there just so he stays on Bettman's good side.
My brother works at RIM. I'll get him to ask Balsilie some questions if he ever runs into him at the water cooler.
Northern Dancer
The future ain't what it used to be.
He is a very rich man based on his equity in RIM, but I can almost guarantee you he does not have 500 miilion sitting in a savings account waiting for a money losing play-toy. He would borrow the money and that even adds to the cost. Unless he gets an almost free rink somewhere he has paid way to much for the Pens !!!!
ej_pens
Registered User
He didn't make his money by throwing large amounts of it away fro no good reason.
If you think he's going to spend a half a billion (or more) dollars just to prove he can move a team to Canada, then you truly have no idea how wealthy people make and maintain their wealth.
Under the plan B scenario the lease particulars will covered under an NDA and all Balsalie will have to say is that it is a bad deal and refuse to sign.
The NHL BOG will probably not even see the plan B as a whole document, thats business 101.
All of the posters please remember that Jim Balsalie right before going public had said that he is not involved in the present sale of the penguins, and then whamo...why do you believe him now. "I have the full intention of keeping the penguins in Pittsburgh" Plan A is your only hope. Good Luck
The NHL BOG will probably not even see the plan B as a whole document, thats business 101.
All of the posters please remember that Jim Balsalie right before going public had said that he is not involved in the present sale of the penguins, and then whamo...why do you believe him now. "I have the full intention of keeping the penguins in Pittsburgh" Plan A is your only hope. Good Luck
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
ej_pens
Registered User
Unlikely. The Pirates and Steelers leases weren't bound to any NDA, so why would the Penguins? The NHL will be be made well known of every step along the way. They will know exactly what is being offered and what, if any, holdups there are.
Huh? What on earth are you talking about?
I don't necessarily believe him. However, Mario is still working out details of his involvement with the team, post-sale, and that, more than anything, leads me to believe that the team is more likely to stay here than not. Lemieux has already said that he's planning on making his home here long-term and he will raise his kids here. There's no reason to believe that he would get involved with the team if he believed that the chances they would be moved are strong.
Once again, it will likely cost the owner a lot of money to move the team (even to Hamilton) than it would to just accept Plan B the way it is currently constructed.
willie
Registered User
True, but - in the long run - a second Southern Ontario team will almost assuredly be more profitable than Southwest Pennsylvania. Balsillie still might be willing to incur the extra costs initially with an eye towards a more profitable franchise down the line.
Pens75
Pens Fan Since 1975
Corban
.
Hah, "Based on what?"
Based on the fact that he is from Canada and Canada is the supreme to all that is Hockey.
I guess you missed the memo that was sent out the other day.
Northern Dancer
The future ain't what it used to be.
What is a few years, 250 years maybe ???? Tell me how is going to ever show a profit or any rate of return on a 500 million dollar investment with an NHL franchise???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
ej_pens
Registered User
There is no guarantee that a non-Maple Leafs pro hockey franchise in S Ontario will be as successful as you might suggest. They will always be second fiddle to the Leafs.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
That's still debatable. As has been pointed out in other threads the Pens draw from an immediate area about as large as Vancouver. They also pull additional fans and revenue from parts farther away. Pens ticket prices are also artificially low, as they were cut to keep attendence up during the abysmal rebuilding years. And the Pittsburgh area itself is regrowing.
When you have a decent market like that, plus the added losses you'd have to take to move the franchise, arena construction, and/or break a lease (if they don't move at the end of this season), it could be close to a decade before you start turning a profit. How many buisnessman wait a decade before a half-a-billion dollar investment starts turning a profit, let alone recouping their initial investment?
Also, with regards to challenging the NHL's territorial rights in court-- that'd be expensive and very time-consuming, maybe taking years even.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
Or the former world champ White Sox playing to empty bleachers while the Cubs sell out.
http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NA...1&call_pageid=1020420665036&col=1112188062581
Hamilton's thin NHL hopes just got skeletal.
The group that purchased exclusive rights to bring an NHL team to Copps Coliseum is terminating its agreement with the city.
Hamilton's thin NHL hopes just got skeletal.
The group that purchased exclusive rights to bring an NHL team to Copps Coliseum is terminating its agreement with the city.
Oh, my ... what a shock. How could Balisllie overlook the spectacular NHL candidate that is Hamilton?
Please re-read every post that I have made on this subject.
Too me that just makes good business sense-If you are the only viable team to move into the arena why spend more money for the rights-and it gets people off your back about the questions being asked.
That being said, if you ask 20 people where are the Pens moving too, all 20 will say either Hamilton or Kitchener Waterloo.
All he is doing is deflecting the answer and saving money, is hamilton going to say no because he no longer has the rights to bring a team to Hamilton? I doubt it.
Timmy
Registered User
- Feb 2, 2005
- 10,691
- 26
Unless one of those twenty people is the owner, why am I caring what they say? Do they have insider knowledge that the Pens are moving, and to where? Are these people industry analysts, or folks in the line in front of me at Dunkin' Donuts?
I'm going go ask twenty people if the Pens are moving, and if they say "Well, yes, of course they are. To Hamilton or Kitchener," then I will eat my humble pie.
Be right back.
skullman80
Registered User
Too me that just makes good business sense-If you are the only viable team to move into the arena why spend more money for the rights-and it gets people off your back about the questions being asked.
That being said, if you ask 20 people where are the Pens moving too, all 20 will say either Hamilton or Kitchener Waterloo.
All he is doing is deflecting the answer and saving money, is hamilton going to say no because he no longer has the rights to bring a team to Hamilton? I doubt it.
LOL.
The people in Hamilton have come to the reality that a team isn't moving there. You should too.
This is good news for us Pens fans.
It will be quite funny when the 30 year lease is signed, and people will still have them moving somehwere...
Timmy
Registered User
- Feb 2, 2005
- 10,691
- 26
Well, I've just finished talking to twenty people.
Three didn't understand english, two didn't know what the NHL was, and three more didn't even know that the Penguins played in Pittsburgh, so these eight must be discounted immediately for the purpose of the survey.
So, when twelve people are asked, "Are the Pens going to move, and if so, where to?" The breakdown of answers was thus:
1) Don't they gots a new arena now?
2) Would Lemieux still play for them if they moved?
3) Yes, to Victoria.
4) No (5X)
5) Don't know (2X)
6) Yes, to Canada.
7) Yes, to Ontario.
So, in my scientific survey, 1 in twelve people agree that the Pens are going to move to Hamilton, or about 1.7 people out of 20.
Three didn't understand english, two didn't know what the NHL was, and three more didn't even know that the Penguins played in Pittsburgh, so these eight must be discounted immediately for the purpose of the survey.
So, when twelve people are asked, "Are the Pens going to move, and if so, where to?" The breakdown of answers was thus:
1) Don't they gots a new arena now?
2) Would Lemieux still play for them if they moved?
3) Yes, to Victoria.
4) No (5X)
5) Don't know (2X)
6) Yes, to Canada.
7) Yes, to Ontario.
So, in my scientific survey, 1 in twelve people agree that the Pens are going to move to Hamilton, or about 1.7 people out of 20.
skullman80
Registered User
he just paid 175 million dollars for a team .
he is linked to a $50,000 dollar agreeement to Copps Colisieum .
that little agreement is causing him more grief and phone calls
right now than it is worth !!!
"are you moving the team jim ""are you moving the team jim" "what about the 50,000 lease agrrement etc"
it's not worth the hassle right now at this pirticular moment .
so they say they wont renew it and his phone quits ringing about relocation FOR NOW . whew that was simple . until dec 20th right ?
how quick can he get the agreement back ? IF he wants it back
id say in about 3 days .
FOR NOW it's best to turn off the $50,000 dollar headache until the casino license gets awarded . Then will see how it all goes from there .
A cancelled agreement also will go along ways , IF he does have to move the team .
canceling the agreement would give some ammo for him to say atleast i tryed and my intentions were to keep them here . it just didnt work
it will all be layed out much clear and without doubt in jan /feb07
i hope it works out from the PENS to stay i really do .
On the skeptical side ive been around long enuff not to buy or read into some $50,000 agreement that has been cancelled as "hourray " there no way were moving .
That agreement most definalty can be drawn back up faster than you can say Sidney Crosby .
Maybe they will play outta the ACC who knows .
ill just be glad to see it over with FOREVER . New rink or Bust .
It has to end NOW . no more messin around .
he is linked to a $50,000 dollar agreeement to Copps Colisieum .
that little agreement is causing him more grief and phone calls
right now than it is worth !!!
"are you moving the team jim ""are you moving the team jim" "what about the 50,000 lease agrrement etc"
it's not worth the hassle right now at this pirticular moment .
so they say they wont renew it and his phone quits ringing about relocation FOR NOW . whew that was simple . until dec 20th right ?
how quick can he get the agreement back ? IF he wants it back
id say in about 3 days .
FOR NOW it's best to turn off the $50,000 dollar headache until the casino license gets awarded . Then will see how it all goes from there .
A cancelled agreement also will go along ways , IF he does have to move the team .
canceling the agreement would give some ammo for him to say atleast i tryed and my intentions were to keep them here . it just didnt work
it will all be layed out much clear and without doubt in jan /feb07
i hope it works out from the PENS to stay i really do .
On the skeptical side ive been around long enuff not to buy or read into some $50,000 agreement that has been cancelled as "hourray " there no way were moving .
That agreement most definalty can be drawn back up faster than you can say Sidney Crosby .
Maybe they will play outta the ACC who knows .
ill just be glad to see it over with FOREVER . New rink or Bust .
It has to end NOW . no more messin around .
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