Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread

[cygnus47]

Yeah, I've never been a fan of teams taking players with such limited puck skills that early. If they want to take a shot at someone like that in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round? Fine. But to waste a relatively high pick on a guy who'll be lucky to become Robert Bortuzzo, and only if he reaches his ceiling? Dumb.

Super dumb. Surprise picks are never the unskilled guys.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I still think it's too soon to start Hall's funeral. Way too soon.

 

[wej20]

Hall was ranked 100th by Central Scouting. I hope they thought he had untapped offensive skills because otherwise it seems like a huge reach. If he manages to stay healthy for the season then that should be considered a victory in terms of his development. Is he the sort of guy who teams would have interest in as an overager? I guess he could potentially work his way up from the ECHL, eventually picked up a few NHL games in his late 20s.

 

[Jacob]

If Hall even gets an ELC I'll eat my shirt.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I agree with the criticism of the Connor Hall pick, but wonder why the same logic isn't applied to Lauzon.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I agree with the criticism of the Connor Hall pick, but wonder why the same logic isn't applied to Lauzon.

Similar concern, tbh. He looks like he has more tools to potentially break out offensively but if he doesn't it's going to get ugly really quickly. Hall followed up being drafted with a season ending injury and his ppg regressed. I'm not sure why they were that high on either of them.

Naturally Lauzon is injured now and has been for awhile. Anything new on that?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I still think it's too soon to start Hall's funeral. Way too soon.

This might be true if Hall was showing some sort of improvement. But the guy looks no better with the puck on his stick today, as he did in his 17-year old draft season. Players who have untapped upside after they've been drafted typically start to show this by their draft+1 and draft+2 seasons.

Look at a guy like Travis Hamonic. Drafted as a stay at home guy coming off a modest 22-point season. In his draft+1 year, he improved to 40 points. In his draft+2 year (the year Hall is currently in), he improved to over a point per game.

Even a guy like Erik Gudbranson, who has basically become nothing more than a physical bottom pairing D-man with very little puck skills or offensive upside at the NHL level put up 34 points in 44 games in his draft+1 season.

I think you're burying your head in the sand if you think it's too early to be concerned about Hall's lack of improvement or offensive numbers at this point in time.

 

[cygnus47]

I agree with the criticism of the Connor Hall pick, but wonder why the same logic isn't applied to Lauzon.

I don't like that pick either.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I agree with the criticism of the Connor Hall pick, but wonder why the same logic isn't applied to Lauzon.

I do think Lauzon's lack of offensive production is also a red flag, but I think the two are different for a couple of reasons:

1-Lauzon's forte seems to be skating and hockey IQ. Hall seems like your typical throwback to the 1980s where physicality and toughness are what matter.

2-Just watching both guys, Lauzon looks like he can move the puck decently enough. With Hall, it goes beyond offensive numbers. He fumbles the puck and can't make crisp outlet passes consistently.

At least that's what I see as the difference between the two and why I'm harder on the Hall pick.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Believe Lauzon is very close to returning. Took the morning skate on Nov. 4th but didn't play on the weekend. Probably back this week/end.

 

[Jacob]

Hopefully he's good to go. Not sure what the issue was other than shoulder and that he went to Montreal for "treatment" at one point.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I still think it's too soon to start Hall's funeral. Way too soon.

I don't think so. Even the most defensive defensemen that have come up through any ranks, have produced a decent amount of points for their role. Hall is just not capable of producing even at that level given his role. That's horrendous and while some of us remain hopeful about the guy, even in the prospect tourney, his skating didn't look great, his positioning was questionable, he is tough and no one will doubt that, but yeah...he's under contract, so maybe he's different at the AHL level, but I feel like it won't be.

 

[Jacob]

I agree with the criticism of the Connor Hall pick, but wonder why the same logic isn't applied to Lauzon.

He's played 3 games since being drafted, and had more points in his draft year than Hall has had in his entire junior career.

 

[Peat]

I don't agree with writing off prospects until its basically happened, but I do agree Hall is going about as poorly as possible from the box cars so far.

 

[Jacob]

He'll be be riding box cars pretty soon.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He'll be be riding box cars pretty soon.

 

[Peat]

He'll be be riding box cars pretty soon.

Badum-tisch!

Not gonna lie, while I mostly agree with you, I am looking forwards to your reaction if Rutherford does give him an ELC

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Badum-tisch!

Not gonna lie, while I mostly agree with you, I am looking forwards to your reaction if Rutherford does give him an ELC

Well, in fairness, part of JR's job is to ensure that WBS has its 7th defenseman in case their starting six gets injured/called up to the NHL.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He'll be be riding box cars pretty soon.

Maybe he'll follow the illustrious Alek Stojanov and become a fire fighter, he could have a promising career in that. Just never in the NHL.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

This might be true if Hall was showing some sort of improvement. But the guy looks no better with the puck on his stick today, as he did in his 17-year old draft season. Players who have untapped upside after they've been drafted typically start to show this by their draft+1 and draft+2 seasons.

Look at a guy like Travis Hamonic. Drafted as a stay at home guy coming off a modest 22-point season. In his draft+1 year, he improved to 40 points. In his draft+2 year (the year Hall is currently in), he improved to over a point per game.

Even a guy like Erik Gudbranson, who has basically become nothing more than a physical bottom pairing D-man with very little puck skills or offensive upside at the NHL level put up 34 points in 44 games in his draft+1 season.

I think you're burying your head in the sand if you think it's too early to be concerned about Hall's lack of improvement or offensive numbers at this point in time.

StK, when you say "the guy looks no better with the puck on his stick today, as he did in his 17-year-old draft season", are you saying that because you are watching a lot of Kitchener Rangers games? And that you also watched a lot of their games his draft year?

I am genuinely asking the question. Because if that's the case, then I will take your word for it and stop talking about Hall.

But if you're just basing all of this on numbers and player comparisons, then I'm sorry but that means very little. Because you can't talk about how a player 'looks' if you're not actually looking.

And you know what, if he is a bust as you suggest, then who cares? There are far better prospects who have busted, both within and outside this organization. And there will be a lot more down the line.

It just seems everybody has a personal vendetta against that particular draft pick, and I'm not sure why.

 

[Jacob]

Have you or anyone named a player yet that produced as little as Hall has in juniors and still carved out any type of NHL career?

 

[Shady Machine]

StK, when you say "the guy looks no better with the puck on his stick today, as he did in his 17-year-old draft season", are you saying that because you are watching a lot of Kitchener Rangers games? And that you also watched a lot of their games his draft year?

I am genuinely asking the question. Because if that's the case, then I will take your word for it and stop talking about Hall.

But if you're just basing all of this on numbers and player comparisons, then I'm sorry but that means very little. Because you can't talk about how a player 'looks' if you're not actually looking.

And you know what, if he is a bust as you suggest, then who cares? There are far better prospects who have busted, both within and outside this organization. And there will be a lot more down the line.

It just seems everybody has a personal vendetta against that particular draft pick, and I'm not sure why.

It's not a personal vendetta, it's a critique about drafting that player. This isn't hindsight either, as many of us were critiquing the pick from day 1. Of course, most of don't have the time or ability to watch these players with any regularity so obviously take our critiques with a grain of salt.

The truth though is that it's extremely rare to become an NHL dman without a lick of offensive production at the lower levels. Maybe Hall will be the one to break the mold, but history suggests he won't make it.

 

[Peat]

Well, in fairness, part of JR's job is to ensure that WBS has its 7th defenseman in case their starting six gets injured/called up to the NHL.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that Rutherford still thinks Hall can offer a lot more than that. No real logic to that thought admittedly, just a gut feeling.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

StK, when you say "the guy looks no better with the puck on his stick today, as he did in his 17-year-old draft season", are you saying that because you are watching a lot of Kitchener Rangers games? And that you also watched a lot of their games his draft year?

I am genuinely asking the question. Because if that's the case, then I will take your word for it and stop talking about Hall.

But if you're just basing all of this on numbers and player comparisons, then I'm sorry but that means very little. Because you can't talk about how a player 'looks' if you're not actually looking.

And you know what, if he is a bust as you suggest, then who cares? There are far better prospects who have busted, both within and outside this organization. And there will be a lot more down the line.

It just seems everybody has a personal vendetta against that particular draft pick, and I'm not sure why.

Have I watched all 17 games of the Kitchener Rangers this season? No. I've watched 4 full games, and watched 1 partial game (was flipping between it and another show), and in that time I didn't see a player who had improved at all (or any more than very, very marginally) from when I saw him play as a 17 year old, the year the Pens originally drafted him.

Maybe I just so happened to watch the 5 worst games he played this season. But I somehow doubt it. That would be quite the coincidence that the 5 times I watched him he looked like Rob Scuderi with the puck on his stick, but in the 12 games I missed he showed a vast improvement in his puck skills.

He plays with more authority or confidence, for lack of a better description, when he's on the ice. But that comes with experience. Even kids who never amount to a thing start to play with a bit more swagger when they're 19/20 years old compared to when they were 16/17 rookies or sophomores. But his actual ability with the puck on his stick -- puckhandling, passing, shooting, etc. -- hasn't made any sort of noticeable improvement.

His lack of production just reinforces when I see with the "eye test".

I also don't think there's an agenda. I wanted for him to be like a Travis Hamonic; a physical defensive guy who breaks out offensively after being drafted. But that simply hasn't happened. He's Clark Seymour/Reid McNeil all over again, but instead of being a late draft pick, Pittsburgh for some reason took him in the 3rd round.

 

[deakka]

Gustavsson was in net for Sweden u20 when they won against russia 5-1. Have not found a boxscore yet so i dont know how busy he was.