Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread

[Jacob]

I think his upside is low and that keeps him down the rankings. Like, 3rd liner at best. Nothin' wrong with that.

 

[wej20]

Still think Bones comes back for a 1-2 year deal to add to his cup resume before deciding to cash in. Especially if we win it this year, why not come back and go for the 3peat?

If Bonino comes back he'll want 3 years minimum, 4 most likely.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Bottom 6 forwards need to produce regularly. It's not a bonus, it's required of them. See Hagelin, who torched the NCAA compared to Tiffels. You need to be able to generate offensive chances to play in the NHL.

I think believing you can accelerate a player's development by moving them into a higher level of competition sooner than they're ready for it is overthinking.

While this is true, there are plenty of players who got better as they moved up the ladder. It happens. Some guys are early bloomers, some are late bloomers.

I don't know Tiffels' story enough to form an opinion, either way. Just that it does happen. I will say it bodes well for him that he is playing for Germany at the worlds. That can only help him, ditto Blueger.

I would definitely place Blueger in that fourth-line C competition for next season with Sundqvist (unless we lose him to expansion) and Rowney and maybe a few others. Perhaps Uher wants another crack at the NHL, never know.

As for 3C, if Sundqvist can't seize that job we will have to look outside.

I love the idea of Joe Thornton for one year. Dude adds size, has been playing on a team with good skaters for a long time, would be awesome to use on the second PP, and could even kill penalties for us if asked.

It depends on whether there is still a market for Thornton as a No. 1-2 center somewhere. If there isn't, maybe he takes a lesser role and much less money for another shot at the Cup.

David Desharnais is another player I'd have interest in as a possible 3-4 C. He had a very solid playoff for the Oilers, and has had solid playoffs his entire career, pretty much.

I definitely don't want to overpay for our 3C next season.

 

[Jacob]

While this is true, there are plenty of players who got better as they moved up the ladder.

I'd say it's an extremely, extremely rare occurrence. Certainly more rare than the opposite, a guy that produces big numbers at low levels, and even at the AHL level, but can't hack it in the NHL, not even as a bottom 6 or 3rd pairing D.

Tiffels, again, was 8th on WMU in scoring. That's not very promising. But 3 of the guys ahead of him either graduated or turned pro, so he's looking to have an opportunity to play a much bigger offensive role, which he won't do in the AHL. He'll play 40 games in college and then join the baby Pens down the stretch. No player has ever been harmed by being developed too slowly, and it's certainly in his best interest to get his degree in case pro hockey doesn't work out for him, which is a very real possibility. And because he was drafted after his freshman year he won't be eligible for free agency until August of 2019.

 

[jmelm]

I'd say it's an extremely, extremely rare occurrence. Certainly more rare than the opposite, a guy that produces big numbers at low levels, and even at the AHL level, but can't hack it in the NHL, not even as a bottom 6 or 3rd pairing D.

Tiffels, again, was 8th on WMU in scoring. That's not very promising. But 3 of the guys ahead of him either graduated or turned pro, so he's looking to have an opportunity to play a much bigger offensive role, which he won't do in the AHL. He'll play 40 games in college and then join the baby Pens down the stretch. No player has ever been harmed by being developed too slowly, and it's certainly in his best interest to get his degree in case pro hockey doesn't work out for him, which is a very real possibility. And because he was drafted after his freshman year he won't be eligible for free agency until August of 2019.

1) There's nothing to guarantee that Tiffels would produce any more offensively next season as a senior. You are assuming he will produce more and that somehow that would be crucial to his development. That is totally hypothetical and I totally disagree with that line of thinking. I think he has very limited offensive potential at the NHL level whether he plays 1 or 2 or 4 more years in college.

2) He can play in a top-6 role in WBS next year. How is that worse than what you are suggesting about him having a bigger role? If he was going to be stuck on the 4th line in WBS, then maybe I would put more stock into your argument but that's just not the case here. He will get sufficient opportunity in WBS and he's physically/mentally ready, as evidenced by his play, physical stature and being 2 years older than his draft class.

Blueger is a fine comparison. He put up the same GPG and pretty similar PPG (the slightest bump) in his senior year. It makes zero difference to the fact that he doesn't project to be anything more than a 4th liner at the NHL level, end of story.

Again, the sooner we get him into WBS, learning the pro game and learning our system, the sooner he'll be ready to contribute on the big club -- especially if we may want to use him as a center. He needs AHL time to get to the NHL, not anymore college time. With Kunitz, Cullen, possibly Hagelin moving on, the sooner we get Tiffels in the fold the better. He could make Hagelin expendible within a year of turning pro which could be extremely valuable for us in terms of opening up cap space for other needs.

And yes, there is the slight chance (like some minority of players) that he will develop more offensively at a higher level and playing with better/smarter players. So perhaps more upside that way, but certainly zero downside or risk.

 

[Coastal Kev]

1) There's nothing to guarantee that Tiffels would produce any more offensively next season as a senior. You are assuming he will produce more and that somehow that would be crucial to his development. That is totally hypothetical and I totally disagree with that line of thinking. I think he has very limited offensive potential at the NHL level whether he plays 1 or 2 or 4 more years in college.

2) He can play in a top-6 role in WBS next year. How is that worse than what you are suggesting about him having a bigger role? If he was going to be stuck on the 4th line in WBS, then maybe I would put more stock into your argument but that's just not the case here. He will get sufficient opportunity in WBS and he's physically/mentally ready, as evidenced by his play, physical stature and being 2 years older than his draft class.

Blueger is a fine comparison. He put up the same GPG and pretty similar PPG (the slightest bump) in his senior year. It makes zero difference to the fact that he doesn't project to be anything more than a 4th liner at the NHL level, end of story.

Again, the sooner we get him into WBS, learning the pro game and learning our system, the sooner he'll be ready to contribute on the big club -- especially if we may want to use him as a center. He needs AHL time to get to the NHL, not anymore college time. With Kunitz, Cullen, possibly Hagelin moving on, the sooner we get Tiffels in the fold the better. He could make Hagelin expendible within a year of turning pro which could be extremely valuable for us in terms of opening up cap space for other needs.

And yes, there is the slight chance (like some minority of players) that he will develop more offensively at a higher level and playing with better/smarter players. So perhaps more upside that way, but certainly zero downside or risk.

This is one of the better posts that I have ever read on this board... agreed.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't really know much about ZAR, but from what I read/watch he looks legit, and that's exciting.

I'm an unabashed Sprong fanboy, and I think he'll be an absolute monster at the NHL level with this team/system.

Between those two guys, whenever they make the jump to the NHL level, and guys like Guentzel, Rust and Sheary, our top-9 is going to be fantastic, cheap, and around for a very long time. That's unbelievable and awesome to think about considering how dead in the water our prospect pipeline looked 3 years ago.

Guentzel - Crosby - ZAR
Rust - Malkin - Sprong
Sheary - XXXX - Kessel

That could be our top-9 in a couple of seasons if everyone pans out. That's scary good.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is a little off topic from this thread, but I honestly don't think Sheary has a spot here long term. It's questionable how good he is when he's not with Sid and the Penguins have a lot of other good skilled wingers already. Sheary may very well end up the Penguins 4th most skilled winger, with Guentzel and Kessel already surpassing him and Sprong possibly surpassing him. I think he'd be a good fit opposite of Kessel if his defensive game would be better though, he'd be like Hagelin but a lot more skilled.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

This is a little off topic from this thread, but I honestly don't think Sheary has a spot here long term. It's questionable how good he is when he's not with Sid and the Penguins have a lot of other good skilled wingers already. Sheary may very well end up the Penguins 4th most skilled winger, with Guentzel and Kessel already surpassing him and Sprong possibly surpassing him. I think he'd be a good fit opposite of Kessel if his defensive game would be better though, he'd be like Hagelin but a lot more skilled.

Yeah, it feels a lot like a Hornqvist situation with Sheary. Unless he's on his natural wing and with Sid, he seems like he's about 5% of his potential.

Sheary's been really bad since the playoffs started though. I have no idea what happened, because a few days before Game 1 against Columbus the GCS line was as dominant as I've seen since the yeah Geno and Neal combined for 90 goals.

I wouldn't mind exploring the market for a big addition to the blueline for a package of like, Sheary and Maatta.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Trading Sheary because of a single bad playoffs is short-sighted.

The kid is 24, his ES production was among the very best in the NHL during the reg season, and he's waiver-exempt.

 

[#1GuinFan]

Trading Sheary because of a single bad playoffs is short-sighted.

The kid is 24, his ES production was among the very best in the NHL during the reg season, and he's waiver-exempt.

And should be on a cap friendly contract

 

[Jacob]

Trading Sheary because of a single bad playoffs is short-sighted.

I agree. I don't buy into the whole argument that some guys just can't perform in the playoffs. It's the same game. I think he just went cold (and/or got banged up) at the wrong time of the year.

One year's playoff dud can be the next year's playoff hero.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I agree. I don't buy into the whole argument that some guys just can't perform in the playoffs. It's the same game. I think he just went cold (and/or got banged up) at the wrong time of the year.

One year's playoff dud can be the next year's playoff hero.

Not only that, but Sheary was actually good last playoffs. Not '16-'17 regular season great, but he was good in spite of having so much of his speed taken away by the Wilson cheap shot in the 1st game of the 2nd round.

His 2 goals against the Sharks tied him for the team lead in the Finals along with Horny, and one of his was an EN.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I agree. I don't buy into the whole argument that some guys just can't perform in the playoffs. It's the same game. I think he just went cold (and/or got banged up) at the wrong time of the year.

One year's playoff dud can be the next year's playoff hero.

What?

 

[Jacob]

Hockey in May is virtually identical to hockey in November.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Tell that to the Caps players

 

[66-30-33]

Trading Sheary because of a single bad playoffs is short-sighted.

The kid is 24, his ES production was among the very best in the NHL during the reg season, and he's waiver-exempt.

I'd only trade him if we can add and get a really good dman. Still think we need to rebuild our D.