Phoenix CXXXIII: Colonel Shuffle's Last 'Ownership' Hill To Die On

[edog37]

I would be careful making that claim. During the last US TV negotiations it came up re: the Coyotes moving or not and it seemed to the TV execs at the time that having the Coyotes or not having the Coyotes existing in Phoenix made no difference to the negotiations. Negotiating a national TV deal where the team ( Coyotes ) are lucky to be televised even once isn't going to sway anyone or make the deal richer.

The current deal came out with NBC in 2011 and was a 10 year deal worth $2 Billion. How many of those dollars came about because of the Coyotes?
So sure, Saskatoon has zero affect on a national US TV deal. I would claim that the Coyotes also have zero affect.

Coyotes TV schedule:

TV Schedule | Arizona Coyotes

They appeared on NBC once this season and that was the Vegas home opener which everyone showed. Vegas on the other hand is on national TV 5 times.

The market still exists, which is all that matters to TV execs. If the team ever got its act together, the potential is astounding. There is no downside on negotiations which has the Phoenix market. There is plenty of downside if you have a Saskatoon franchise.....

 

[edog37]

A league with $4 billion of revenue floating one franchise of 30 is akin to a corporation with $23 billion revenue floating one franchise out of 40,000? There's nothing remotely similar about the two.

It's the concept behind it. People here think the league losing a couple of million on a team for a few years is some existential-level event. It isn't...The league already made that money back & then some.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Glass seats suck.

 

[Killion]

Glass seats suck.

... ya, totally.... like being right on the floor at center court watching
tennis or basketball... no real perspective... got a good Chiropractor?

 

[TheLegend]

I might be wrong but I sense there’s currently more desperation into keeping this thread afloat on the front page than there is the Yotes getting their arena situation sorted out.

... ya, totally.... like being right on the floor at center court watching
tennis or basketball... no real perspective... got a good Chiropractor?

Yep.... been down next to the glass for warmups and such and it sucks because you lose sight of a lot of the ice.

 

[Killion]

I might be wrong but I sense there’s currently more desperation into keeping this thread afloat on the front page than there is the Yotes getting their arena situation sorted out.



Yep.... been down next to the glass for warmups and such and it sucks because you lose sight of a lot of the ice.

.... and its precisely comments like that & my response that will insure it does.... but no, not seeing that here.... I'd be happy for some major news on that front as would everyone but doesnt look like we'll be hearing or seeing much of anything for awhile yet, probably end of season, April right around the corner.... and if thereafter the thread falls off page 1 I'm good with that... a story unfinished, like serial novels or TV series, The Fugitive, Twin Peaks, Game of Thrones.... pick it up again as new chapters written, episodes released.

My favorite spot in an arena is in the corners up a good 20 + rows.... and in fact thats also where most NHL Scouts will watch games from. Gives you the best vantage point be you interested in scoping out the opposition up close for 2 periods or the home team, getting a really good perspective on how plays unfold, how players comport themselves, deal with pressure & so on..... Try it if you havent already.... yes, you'll thank me.... and yes, this side bar topic could well be good for another day of top of page SEO.

Thanks TL.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

My favorite spot in an arena is in the corners up a good 20 + rows.... and in fact thats also where most NHL Scouts will watch games from. Gives you the best vantage point be you interested in scoping out the opposition up close for 2 periods or the home team, getting a really good perspective on how plays unfold, how players comport themselves, deal with pressure & so on..... Try it if you havent already.... yes, you'll thank me.... and yes, this side bar topic could well be good for another day of top of page SEO.

That's where my season tickets were for 12 years...

 

[Bookie21]

.... and its precisely comments like that & my response that will insure it does.... but no, not seeing that here.... I'd be happy for some major news on that front as would everyone but doesnt look like we'll be hearing or seeing much of anything for awhile yet, probably end of season, April right around the corner.... and if thereafter the thread falls off page 1 I'm good with that... a story unfinished, like serial novels or TV series, The Fugitive, Twin Peaks, Game of Thrones.... pick it up again as new chapters written, episodes released.


Thanks TL.

I doubt we'll hear anything for a while. They're locked in for another season at GRA, so I think AB is going to stay the course, work behind the scenes on an east valley arena and wait for Seattle expansion. No way is he going to pass up on a $22 million dollar cheque due in 2021....

 

[JimAnchower]

Looks like Vienna Beef beat out Lou Malnati's and their "Going Deep-dish" ticket promotion.

 

[blues10]

I doubt we'll hear anything for a while. They're locked in for another season at GRA, so I think AB is going to stay the course, work behind the scenes on an east valley arena and wait for Seattle expansion. No way is he going to pass up on a $22 million dollar cheque due in 2021....

Did AB get to keep the Vegas expansion cheque or did it go directly to league/LOC? I'm sure it can be specualted that either could have occurred.

Waiting 3 years for a check AB may or may not even get is not what will keep this franchise in Arizona in 2021. IF L'ill Gary and AB are to believed about such poor arena location and the need for a new barn in the East valley. At some point some shovels are going to have to hit the ground in a pile of dirt in the East valley. Unless L'ill Gary is spinning the yarn again that is going to have to happen well before 2021 as it sure seemed urgent over a year ago.

AB doesn't have 3 years to sketch arena plans on the back of a napkin while waiting for $22 million to offset his losses.

 

[TheLegend]

Did AB get to keep the Vegas expansion cheque or did it go directly to league/LOC? I'm sure it can be specualted that either could have occurred.

Waiting 3 years for a check AB may or may not even get is not what will keep this franchise in Arizona in 2021. IF L'ill Gary and AB are to believed about such poor arena location and the need for a new barn in the East valley. At some point some shovels are going to have to hit the ground in a pile of dirt in the East valley. Unless L'ill Gary is spinning the yarn again that is going to have to happen well before 2021 as it sure seemed urgent over a year ago.

AB doesn't have 3 years to sketch arena plans on the back of a napkin while waiting for $22 million to offset his losses.

We’ve been hearing we haven’t even had one year for nearly nine years. Yet we’re still here.

It’s gotten well beyond the point that any logical sense went out the window a long long time ago.

 

[Killion]

Did AB get to keep the Vegas expansion cheque or did it go directly to league/LOC? I'm sure it can be specualted that either could have occurred.

Unhuh. I have serious serious doubts he, IceArizona ever saw their 1/30th of the Vegas Expansion Fee & remain extremely skeptical that should this situation remain unresolved & in-park come 2020 that AB see's any portion of Seattles. Even if he did/does, it'd go straight to his creditors & I count the NHL amongst them.

And yes TL, that club can & will remain there for however long it takes the NHL to figure things out, and based on what Bettmans said of late on the matter he's still at a loss, lost & willing to dig and seemingly indefinitely. All the way to China if some of the speculation around these here & F40 parts are accurate.

 

[Bookie21]

Doesn't really matter if he gets the cheque directly or it goes against the LOC. It's still 22 million he gets or gets to pay down whats owed. As long as franchise values keep skyrocketing (Carolina Panthers bidding currently at 2.5B), the that will obviously offset any losses AB occurs over the next 3 years

 

[MNNumbers]

Doesn't really matter if he gets the cheque directly or it goes against the LOC. It's still 22 million he gets or gets to pay down whats owed. As long as franchise values keep skyrocketing (Carolina Panthers bidding currently at 2.5B), the that will obviously offset any losses AB occurs over the next 3 years

This is obviously the bet they are playing. As suggested before, many times, the current investment in the team, considering the purchase cost and the accumulated losses, is 300+M and could be over 400M.

Salary cap up about 4M or more next more will mean that much more losses.

Yep. The way it stays solvent is the play that franchise values go up. Whether you think that's a good play in the NHL or not is another question.

 

[Fairview]

Where things get sticky of course is the reality that no one has stepped up with anywhere near the amounts paid in Vegas or mentioned for Seattle, to purchase this team and keep it where it is. It certainly appears that with the amount of debt owing and the NHL's greed, this team has currently priced itself out of it's market. Comparing franchise values of NHL teams to NFL teams is really a stretch of reality

 

[cbcwpg]

Doesn't really matter if he gets the cheque directly or it goes against the LOC. It's still 22 million he gets or gets to pay down whats owed. As long as franchise values keep skyrocketing (Carolina Panthers bidding currently at 2.5B), the that will obviously offset any losses AB occurs over the next 3 years

And those values only matter if you sell the team. Franchise values might as well be written on toilet paper because unless you convince someone to give you that value, toilet paper is all it's worth.

Think about it... say today the Coyotes are worth some arbitrary value of $250,000,000 and tomorrow Bettman wakes up and says that the minimum franchise value is now $700,000,000... so? Did the owners of the Coyotes get a cheque for the difference? Did they pay down their loan? Are they now magically breaking even? Are they rolling in cash? Not at all.

And IMO, having franchise values increasing is a bad thing if you want the team to stay in Phoenix, unless the current owner just stays and continues on and is happy losing money. Sure one day Barroway might sell it and walk away and the team stays in Phoenix, and Bettman will tell everyone it was sold for the going league minimum, but Barroway actually getting $600MM plus in real dollars, for this team, where it is? not a chance.

Because the only way anyone is going to get that arbitrary value and walk away a winner with real money in pocket, is to sell it out of state. And the higher franchise values go up, the more tempting it is to move it.

 

[Llama19]

Coyotes to Present Fan Appreciation Night on April 7

To quote:

"Fan Appreciation Night is a long-standing Coyotes tradition which recognizes fans for their loyalty and support throughout the season. All fans in attendance will receive a Coyotes 2017-18 Team Photo. Additionally, fans at the game will be treated to numerous giveaways throughout the evening and have the chance to win a variety of prizes provided by Papa John's Pizza, Chick-fil-A, Fry's Food Stores and Uber. The Coyotes will add more giveaways as Fan Appreciation Night approaches.

As part of the evening, final contestants from the BMW Shoot to Drive contest will take part in a competition to determine the grand prize winner. One lucky fan will go home with a custom new 2017 BMW X1, courtesy of the Valley BMW Centers."

Source: www.nhl.com/coyotes/news/coyotes-to-present-fan-appreciation-night-on-april-7/c-297212172

 

[Stumbledore]

I doubt we'll hear anything for a while. They're locked in for another season at GRA, so I think AB is going to stay the course, work behind the scenes on an east valley arena and wait for Seattle expansion. No way is he going to pass up on a $22 million dollar cheque due in 2021....

If he's losing $10-$20 million a year, I don't see the logic in continuing to do that for another 3 years in order to collect a $22 million cheque.

 

[Bookie21]

If he's losing $10-$20 million a year, I don't see the logic in continuing to do that for another 3 years in order to collect a $22 million cheque.

As of now, the value of his asset is going up more than $10-$20 million per year. Hurricanes sold for appox $500mill. Vegas $500mill. Seattle is going to be paying $650mill. Prices are only rising.

 

[tony d]

Seems like more of the same for this team IMO. Got to think once something is figured out or concrete with Houston we'll see an end to this saga known as the Arizona Coyotes.

 

[Killion]

As of now, the value of his asset is going up more than $10-$20 million per year. Hurricanes sold for appox $500mill. Vegas $500mill. Seattle is going to be paying $650mill. Prices are only rising.

The problem is its almost futile to speculate on any of this because we just dont know exactly how far he's already leveraged out beyond his loans from the NHL backed Bank of America & Citi, along with private direct lender MGG. It was reported that he did retire the direct loans from the NHL when he bought out LeBlanc & Co..... so its absolutely pure guesswork as to where its sits, but.... my best guess would be in the range of $350M excluding whatever losses incurred over this past season. These figures do exceed Forbes valuation of the franchise where is as is by anywhere from $50M-$75M, thats if you even want to trust or believe in Forbes valuation ('s) as they have proven to be wildly off the mark when it comes to NHL franchises.

Frankly, I'm not seeing how the Coyotes are worth anywhere near the app $330M or so Forbes has tagged it at. No chance. Its a money pit, debt to income, out of sight, off-world. The only way that franchise can claim a $500M or $650M valuation is out of market, Relo. Lenders, those who provided the capital are most assuredly aware of it and only extended credit based on the premise that this was & is a franchise headed for a Relocation & within specific parameters of time, months, years. Clearly the franchise hasnt reached that ceiling, conservatively speaking could have as much as 2-3 seasons left in them before they do & meanwhile..... Barroway, Patterson & League personnel beating the bushes looking for investors in both the team & of course, new facility.

There is hope, theres always hope, though with this situation, the market fundamentals, the basics, everything thats gone down, youve got to be one H.E. Double Hockey Stix of an optimist to think anyone's going to arrive with a trainload of bullion in tow & shell out north of a half a billion.... and you cant possibly squeeze any more credit against the franchise where is as is without the guarantee to any lender that an off-market sale provides the fail safe that they'll be seeing their $$$ back & then some. Plenty of some as is the case with high interest lender MGG.... The cynics here, and I mean that most respectfully, hard not to be, they dont believe that Barroway, Patterson or Bettman etc are doing anything more than just paying lip service, keeping up appearances.... I think they are looking, beating the bushes... we'll see if anything comes of it. Strangers things have happened.

 

[Llama19]

Georgetown sports VP joins Arizona Coyotes’ corporate offices

To quote:

"The Arizona Coyotes have hired Mike Berry as vice president for corporate partnerships.

“We are excited to have Mike join our corporate partnerships team,” said John Knebel, the Coyotes executive vice president of corporate partnerships and premium seating. “Mike has a successful track record of creating strategic marketing programs that drive business. The front office and our corporate partners will all benefit from his experience and approach.” "

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2018/03/25/georgetown-sports-vp-joins-arizona-coyotes.html

 

[Killion]

Georgetown sports VP joins Arizona Coyotes’ corporate offices

To quote:

"The Arizona Coyotes have hired Mike Berry as vice president for corporate partnerships.

“We are excited to have Mike join our corporate partnerships team,” said John Knebel, the Coyotes executive vice president of corporate partnerships and premium seating. “Mike has a successful track record of creating strategic marketing programs that drive business. The front office and our corporate partners will all benefit from his experience and approach.” "

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2018/03/25/georgetown-sports-vp-joins-arizona-coyotes.html

Interesting. Who did he replace or didnt the Coyotes even have a Director of Corporate Sponsorships?... Hard to believe that in this day & age they very likely didnt & havent since at least 2009, those activities handled by amateurs like LeBlanc & others but also understandable why not given the mess of a situation down there .... So this guy while claiming "20 years worth of experience" actually only has about 6... Georgetown a division of Fox Sports Media where he worked for less than 2yrs, and prior to that averaging 2 years at each with the Washington Nationals & SF Giants of MLB.

Not a "hockey guy" professionally however I hope he's a big fan of the game because he's going to need all the enthusiasm & energy he can muster going up against some seriously stiff competition in the market, MLB, the NFL & NBA, the Rattlers etc, Cactus League & so on all vying for the same corporate dollars... and further hindering such activities, the uncertainty of the teams future in Arizona, its troubled past. This is gunna be one tough sell for this guy, and not entirely sure why the organization would even bother given their claims that GRA burning their viability to the ground & no solid ground upon which to build elsewhere, lack of funds, no govt or institutional support.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Georgetown sports VP joins Arizona Coyotes’ corporate offices

To quote:

"The Arizona Coyotes have hired Mike Berry as vice president for corporate partnerships.

“We are excited to have Mike join our corporate partnerships team,” said John Knebel, the Coyotes executive vice president of corporate partnerships and premium seating. “Mike has a successful track record of creating strategic marketing programs that drive business. The front office and our corporate partners will all benefit from his experience and approach.” "

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2018/03/25/georgetown-sports-vp-joins-arizona-coyotes.html

Finally, a Llama post that's actually relevant

Nice find!

 

[Llama19]

Interesting. Who did he replace or didnt the Coyotes even have a Director of Corporate Sponsorships?... Hard to believe that in this day & age they very likely didnt & havent since at least 2009, those activities handled by amateurs like LeBlanc & others but also understandable why not given the mess of a situation down there .... So this guy while claiming "20 years worth of experience" actually only has about 6... Georgetown a division of Fox Sports Media where he worked for less than 2yrs, and prior to that averaging 2 years at each with the Washington Nationals & SF Giants of MLB.

Not a "hockey guy" professionally however I hope he's a big fan of the game because he's going to need all the enthusiasm & energy he can muster going up against some seriously stiff competition in the market, MLB, the NFL & NBA, the Rattlers etc, Cactus League & so on all vying for the same corporate dollars... and further hindering such activities, the uncertainty of the teams future in Arizona, its troubled past. This is gunna be one tough sell for this guy, and not entirely sure why the organization would even bother given their claims that GRA burning their viability to the ground & no solid ground upon which to build elsewhere, lack of funds, no govt or institutional support.

You would be correct...too much competition in the Arizona market...

However...according to the Coyotes Executive team page...John Knebel (who has been with the team for two years) is the current Executive Vice President, Corporate Partnerships & Premium Seating...

Source: www.nhl.com/coyotes/team/staff