Phoenix CXXXI: Looking for the Barroway Necessities

[gstommylee]

^^^ Very odd. Requests being stonewalled..... FOIA's ignored & CasualFan gone fishin... I'll email Tom Fitton at Judicial Watch.... Time to take the gloves off..... Lets just hope that what they receive isnt completely redacted... blacked out.

Yea ignoring a FOIA is illegal . Definitely something that should be looked into.

 

[Llama19]

^^^ Very odd. Requests being stonewalled..... FOIA's ignored & CasualFan gone fishin... I'll email Tom Fitton at Judicial Watch.... Time to take the gloves off..... Lets just hope that what they receive isnt completely redacted... blacked out.

Yea ignoring a FOIA is illegal . Definitely something that should be looked into.

When has anything legal been done concerning this franchise...

 

[WildGopher]

Yea ignoring a FOIA is illegal . Definitely something that should be looked into.

Not sure that applies here. FOIA law is federal, applying to information known to the federal government. Some states and municipalities have similar laws for local info, but I don't know what applies to Phoenix and Arizona.

Cities often can legally withhold information on personnel matters and items under negotiation, at least for a period of time. But what's strange here is that a city council member can't get their mitts on the relevant info. After all, those council members are the bosses of the people withholding the info, and they are responsible to the voting public for how that info is handled. If the council members can't get the info, even on a confidential basis for now, it sounds like something wrong democratically, even worse than delayed FOIA information, IMO.

 

[gstommylee]

Not sure that applies here. FOIA law is federal, applying to information known to the federal government. Some states and municipalities have similar laws for local info, but I don't know what applies to Phoenix and Arizona.

Cities often can legally withhold information on personnel matters and items under negotiation, at least for a period of time. But what's strange here is that a city council member can't get their mitts on the relevant info. After all, those council members are the bosses of the people withholding the info, and they are responsible to the voting public for how that info is handled. If the council members can't get the info, even on a confidential basis for now, it sounds like something wrong democratically, even worse than delayed FOIA information, IMO.

Okay so what ever the equivalent is for local government then for for the issue.

 

[Killion]

If the council members can't get the info, even on a confidential basis for now, it sounds like something wrong democratically, even worse than delayed FOIA information, IMO.

Indeed.... time for the City Council to appoint a Special Council to investigate what is clearly a rogue wild out of control civil service & or setup an Investigative Committee, subpoena the individuals involved, ask them direct questions, demand they provide the documents requested & if they dont... hit them with Contempt of Congr... Council charges.... cuff em'..... no bail...

 

[TheLegend]

Next thread..... “ArenaGate”.

fwiw.... as long as the parties are negotiating info can be withheld. But they will have to release the information before any council action is taken

 

[Killion]

Done. ArenaGate it is.

 

[Mightygoose]

It gets better...

Is ho k

It gets better...

Is hockey part of it or not?

City manager's reply of negotiations with the Suns....translation: No

 

[Llama19]

Is ho k


Is hockey part of it or not?

City manager's reply of negotiations with the Suns....translation: No

Although the negotiations on the arena have been with their current occupant, the Suns...since the report still has not been released...we still do not know if said report has any mention of the costs for renovation/reconfiguration options for hockey...

 

[Killion]

Although the negotiations on the arena have been with their current occupant, the Suns...since the report still has not been released...we still do not know if said report has any mention of the costs for renovation/reconfiguration options for hockey...

I cant imagine what possible solution any consultant could come up with that would suggest TSRA can somehow become reconstructed & renovated to make it hockey friendly without a total & complete gut job to the place, basically the cost of a new building... nor can I imagine any suggestion that Sarver relinquish revenues in order to accommodate the Coyotes be met with anything but no way, not happening.

If these consultants were being honest, realistic, theyd understand that the business models of these two franchises under separate ownership groups is a hurdle that cannot be overcome. That the costs to renovate TSRA would more than double the costs that might or might not satisfy Sarver's interests as they relate specifically to the NBA & the Suns.

Its my understanding that the report deals exclusively with TSRA, not with the option, feasibility study pursuant to a new dual purpose shared facility, and what method, what new business model they think workable that would be feasible & acceptable to both teams who as of right now have dueling non complimentary & competitive objectives.

That they'd refuse to disclose those facts to the public is frankly rather strange, bizarre. That "negotiations" are under way & to release this report could prove harmful to the process must mean that its NBA & subsidy heavy, that if people knew what was going on they might get upset. That it puts paid to the ultruistic fiction espoused by the outgoing Mayor's suggestions that a shared facility was ever even possible. All seems very odd.

 

[Llama19]

Phoenix pumps $125K more into research for Suns arena upgrades

To quote:

"At a meeting Wednesday, council members indicated that they have not yet seen a report on renovation costs from the consultant, despite multiple requests. But they voted 7-2 to extend the contract for another year — and another $125,000.

[Councilman Sal] DiCiccio asked city staff to present all of the information Barrett Sports group has collected thus far, as well as cost estimates for everything from essential fixes, such as the plumbing, to a potential full renovation of the arena."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2017/12/14/phoenix-pumps-125-k-more-into-research-suns-arena-upgrades/950128001/

 

[cbcwpg]

^^^

so we hire you to produce a report... you don't produce the report... but here is another $125,000 for your trouble.

 

[TheLegend]

I cant imagine what possible solution any consultant could come up with that would suggest TSRA can somehow become reconstructed & renovated to make it hockey friendly without a total & complete gut job to the place, basically the cost of a new building... nor can I imagine any suggestion that Sarver relinquish revenues in order to accommodate the Coyotes be met with anything but no way, not happening.

If these consultants were being honest, realistic, theyd understand that the business models of these two franchises under separate ownership groups is a hurdle that cannot be overcome. That the costs to renovate TSRA would more than double the costs that might or might not satisfy Sarver's interests as they relate specifically to the NBA & the Suns.

Its my understanding that the report deals exclusively with TSRA, not with the option, feasibility study pursuant to a new dual purpose shared facility, and what method, what new business model they think workable that would be feasible & acceptable to both teams who as of right now have dueling non complimentary & competitive objectives.

That they'd refuse to disclose those facts to the public is frankly rather strange, bizarre. That "negotiations" are under way & to release this report could prove harmful to the process must mean that its NBA & subsidy heavy, that if people knew what was going on they might get upset. That it puts paid to the ultruistic fiction espoused by the outgoing Mayor's suggestions that a shared facility was ever even possible. All seems very odd.

At $400 million for the estimated renovation costs it’s pretty much a complete gut job.

To include hockey it would require blowing open the north end of the building so it could be stretched enough to fit the hockey rink in without those restricted view seats.

I have no doubt the consultants who completed the work did what they were supposed to do and submitted their report. But as long as the city manager is still in negotiations with the Suns they aren’t obligated to release the details of it. Regardless of what it contains. Nothing worse than negotiating through the media which is exactly what those council members would do if given the opportunity.

 

[Mightygoose]

Phoenix pumps $125K more into research for Suns arena upgrades

To quote:

"At a meeting Wednesday, council members indicated that they have not yet seen a report on renovation costs from the consultant, despite multiple requests. But they voted 7-2 to extend the contract for another year — and another $125,000.

[Councilman Sal] DiCiccio asked city staff to present all of the information Barrett Sports group has collected thus far, as well as cost estimates for everything from essential fixes, such as the plumbing, to a potential full renovation of the arena."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2017/12/14/phoenix-pumps-125-k-more-into-research-suns-arena-upgrades/950128001/

So after a delay for about 6 months on getting this report. They have now given them another year just to know the cost and if hockey is doable?

Those unnamed governors that said to Dreger last week that they want an arena deal done by the end of the season will be....a tad put off by this....

 

[Llama19]

So after a delay for about 6 months on getting this report. They have now given them another year just to know the cost and if hockey is doable?

Those unnamed governors that said to Dreger last week that they want an arena deal done by the end of the season will be....a tad put off by this....

Just another bullet in the chamber of the NHL relocation gun...

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Just another bullet in the chamber of the NHL relocation gun...

but again, nobody is buying the Suns and Coyotes even talking to split an updated TSRA, but why are the Coyotes even entertaining Phoenix anyway, if it didn't work at TSRA OVER A DECADE ago now, no report/study otherwise benefits the hockey team unless they're in the position the Suns are, so why are the Coyotes being dragged into this?

 

[Llama19]

but again, nobody is buying the Suns and Coyotes even talking to split an updated TSRA, but why are the Coyotes even entertaining Phoenix anyway, if it didn't work at TSRA OVER A DECADE ago now, no report/study otherwise benefits the hockey team unless they're in the position the Suns are, so why are the Coyotes being dragged into this?

To quote:

"Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman wrote Tuesday that NBA Commissioner Adam Silver and NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman are working together to help facilitate a new joint venue for the Coyotes and Phoenix Suns.

Friedman reports Bettman and Silver "have taken the lead" on a new arena from Coyotes owner Andrew Barroway and Suns owner Robert Sarver. Friedman did not specify where that arena would be located, but he suggested an agreement could be an uphill battle, as Sarver "is notoriously difficult."

Source: www.abc15.com/sports/sports-blogs-local/report-nba-nhl-commissioners-working-with-suns-coyotes-on-joint-arena

If there are any discussions (behind the scenes and out of the public eye) between the NHL and NBA, having a consultant work up the numbers to make a joint arena possible...could still be possible...

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

To quote:

"Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman wrote Tuesday that NBA Commissioner Adam Silver and NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman are working together to help facilitate a new joint venue for the Coyotes and Phoenix Suns.

Friedman reports Bettman and Silver "have taken the lead" on a new arena from Coyotes owner Andrew Barroway and Suns owner Robert Sarver. Friedman did not specify where that arena would be located, but he suggested an agreement could be an uphill battle, as Sarver "is notoriously difficult."

Source: www.abc15.com/sports/sports-blogs-local/report-nba-nhl-commissioners-working-with-suns-coyotes-on-joint-arena

If there are any discussions (behind the scenes and out of the public eye) between the NHL and NBA, having a consult work up the numbers to make a joint arena possible...could still be possible...

then where's the agreement then? because by all indications as most have stated, you will never see the Coyotes and Suns under the same arena unless the Suns facilitate an acquisition, and even then, that's a longshot, goes to the premise why are the Suns still called Phoenix, and everything else is what..... ARIZONA

 

[Llama19]

then where's the agreement then? because by all indications as most have stated, you will never see the Coyotes and Suns under the same arena unless the Suns facilitate an acquisition, and even then, that's a longshot, goes to the premise why are the Suns still called Phoenix, and everything else is what..... ARIZONA

But you said '...nobody is buying the Suns and Coyotes even talking to split an updated TSRA...' and I replied that at the league level...it seems there is something there...

But I would tend to agree with you that we will likely never see a joint arena with the Coyotes and Suns, again...

As far as why the name Phoenix Suns and not the Arizona Suns...you would have to direct that question to Mr Sarver...

 

[TheLegend]

But you said '...nobody is buying the Suns and Coyotes even talking to split an updated TSRA...' and I replied that at the league level...it seems there is something there...

But I would tend to agree with you that we will likely never see a joint arena with the Coyotes and Suns, again...

As far as why the name Phoenix Suns and not the Arizona Suns...you would have to direct that question to Mr Sarver...

The article above is almost SIX MONTH’S OLD.

AND...... As I recall Llama nobody here bought into Bettman and Silver doing that. Plus there’s been nothing since to change anyone’s mind in that regards.

 

[madhi19]

The article above is almost SIX MONTH’S OLD.

AND...... As I recall Llama nobody here bought into Bettman and Silver doing that. Plus there’s been nothing since to change anyone’s mind in that regards.

You know the lease auto renew in a couple of weeks unless one side notify the other of termination. You might even say we know more in... A fortnight!

 

[Killion]

You know the lease auto renew in a couple of weeks unless one side notify the other of termination. You might even say we know more in... A fortnight!

Thats already kicked in madhi... seems the auto renew kicks in automatically on either October 31, November 15 or 30 for the calendar year commencing on December 31st unless otherwise notified. It was reported and discussed here awhile back. So their good to go through 2018 at GRA.... though "go" they could well be doing (if thats the plan & times up but who knows on that one) as I cant imagine there being any seriously onerous early exit fee or penalty if they do go elsewhere in April or May.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

2018/2019, K, you forget the season split between June and October

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Im sure the NHL would love to get in with the NBA. I see no benefit to Sarver though.

 

[TheLegend]

Im sure the NHL would love to get in with the NBA. I see no benefit to Sarver though.

There is none... other than if he goes somewhere else he’ll have to find someone willing to build a place for him and that’s getting harder to do year by year.