Phoenix CXXXI: Looking for the Barroway Necessities

[TheLegend]

Here are those necessities...

• A new or remodeled arena which is closer to the major portion of the fanbase in the east Phoenix metro area.
• Coyotes will need a liberal lease agreement at the new arena that allows them enough revenue streams to properly operate the franchise.
• Coyotes need a winning product on the ice to maintain and eventually grow attendance in a market that is fickle when it comes to supporting non-winning teams.

What we know to date.....

Not a whole lot.

• City of Phoenix is investigating remodeling the Suns downtown arena, with price tag at $350-400 million.
• No word if the remodel includes hockey as a consideration.
• Talks with the Suns on the remodel reached an impasse in the last 48 hours.
• On the ice.... the team is suffering through a terrible start, but so far it hasn't affected attendance to a great degree.

Meanwhile.....

• Owner Andrew Barroway and the Coyotes remain silent on the status of a new arena.
• Annual renewal of current lease in Glendale will happen automatically on Dec. 31st, unless the Coyotes or the arena manager (AEG) request the lease not be renewed.
• AHL team in Tucson off to another strong start, leading the AHL in win percentage and attendance is holding it's own from their inaugural season last year.

So grab your popcorn and carry on.......

Click to read more...

 

[awfulwaffle]

So really, not much to talk about. Thanks TL!

 

[Mightygoose]

Great thread title!

Nice summary of events and yes, allot of new news but it's a good starting point for new people to this saga or those who has been away for a while.

In terms of a 'maybe' news item, today is the first day of pre-filing in the AZ legislature. It was this mark at this time last year the ASU plan was announced.

Pre-Filing Dates for the 2018 Sessions by State | Connectivity

If they're going to try the legislature route again, today may be the first day of the 'leak' season.

 

[MNNumbers]

With respect to the arena info which Legend posted.....

Everyone should know that there is NO, repeat, ZERO concrete information in any linking the Suns' attempt for a new arena (or a Phoenix remodel) to anything having to do with the Coyotes. Any idea about what the Suns' requests and/or information means for hockey is the speculation and conclusion of the poster (which of course could be either right or wrong).

And, concerning the GRA lease under which the Coyotes currently play: The city and the Arena Manager (AEG) are NOT going to cancel the auto-renewal. The present terms are very much according to what they want. If it is cancelled, it will be the team cancelling the auto-renewal.

 

[mesamonster]

Nice job TL! As for the new arena prospects/relationships in the East Valley you have forgotten to include how the Coyotes would participate in the future funding? Judging from your good post, I assume you believe that the team will require state/city/private funding to pay their way? Without third party funding an East Valley option will not be in the cards for this ownership group?

I have consistently advocated that if in fact AB is seriously considering holding on to this franchise he must be willing to have skin in the arena game. To date, they have said little to nothing about their plans. If and when they do, I think they need to communicate their financial commitment to the new venue. To merely say we are committing the franchise and nothing more is a non starter in my mind.

 

[tony d]

Seems like more of the same for the team. Can't think their slow start is helping things either. Hoping we get some more concrete answers soon and an end to this saga is coming soon.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Cool, I was hoping that thread title would win. I even briefly contemplated ensuring that about an hour before you did, TL, but wasn't up to creating the synopsis...

 

[Tawnos]

You guys should do that synopsis at the beginning of each new thread. Perhaps with updates to the OP (indicated in the thread title. i.e. “upd 11/14”) if anything changes.

For those of us who are interested in the situations but aren’t interested enough to sort through the minutia that you see with these threads.

Thanks @TheLegend

 

[TheLegend]

Thanks for the kudos... but credit also has to go Feckless for the thread title (I did adjust it slightly to fit) and Killion for suggesting the first post synopsis.

MNN... yes... the TSRA renovation is probably a basketball only one but you have to begin asking yourself why spend that on renovating?? When you can spend almost the same amount building a new facility that could meet both the team’s needs??

That reno cost does bother me a bit and I’m wondering if it’s being inflated on purpose to justify building new? Hard to tell right now.

 

[Killion]

Thanks for the kudos... but credit also has to go Feckless for the thread title (I did adjust it slightly to fit) and Killion for suggesting the first post synopsis.

MNN... yes... the TSRA renovation is probably a basketball only one but you have to begin asking yourself why spend that on renovating?? When you can spend almost the same amount building a new facility that could meet both the team’s needs??

That reno cost does bother me a bit and I’m wondering if it’s being inflated on purpose to justify building new? Hard to tell right now.

Well, that was actually awfulwaffle & others who suggested, requested a "1st Post Synopsis" so I cant take credit for that, just enforcing the policy as I thought it a great idea & as most will recall something we used to do along with links to all of the previous thread. To go to that length (post all previous threads) rather cumbersome, top heavy or what huh?!. Take someone about 6-8 months to read them all.

And ya, that price tag for reno's at TSRA is one Humdinger of a Doozy to put it mildly. How one cant arrive at the conclusion that Sarver simply must be posturing, fishing for a brand new facility I know not. I mean... come... on. If that figures right, app $400M-$450M well, My God. You can build a brand new state of the art facility for less, and its not like Downtown Phoenix is Manhattan and TSRA is MSG. Its as transparent, sweaty & seedy as a Eustace Charleston Haney pitch on Green Acres, all in re-run, seen it before..... Either way yes it does have ramifications for the Coyotes so it bears watching.

 

[theoriginal55]

I am sure it was discussed in the past that to build a new arena requires a public vote. However, a remodel only needs council appproval-thats the real reason for a $4oom remodel.

 

[Killion]

Well.... according to reports in the Calgary Herald, follow-up to the death of George Gosbee. Beyond tragic, sad, seems he committed suicide. Though just why no one seems to know. He was diagnosed with a benign brain tumor in his early 20's and subsequently lived life every day like it might be his last, serious overachiever of the finestkind.... So whether it was physiological or mental illness or what, its a silent killer that stalks some, even those who seem to have it all..... Words fail.

 

[Llama19]

More speculation (from Jude LaCava) than anything concrete...

Arizona Coyotes on tribal land: Idea making the rounds again

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2017/11/15/arizona-coyotes-phoenix-suns-arena-stadium-multipurpose/867354001/

 

[TheLegend]

Well.... according to reports in the Calgary Herald, follow-up to the death of George Gosbee. Beyond tragic, sad, seems he committed suicide. Though just why no one seems to know. He was diagnosed with a benign brain tumor in his early 20's and subsequently lived life every day like it might be his last, serious overachiever of the finestkind.... So whether it was physiological or mental illness or what, its a silent killer that stalks some, even those who seem to have it all..... Words fail.

K.... don't remember if we ever brought this up here but about a year after IA took over Gosbee disappeared for a few months for some unknown medical reason. Then popped back out on Twitter to say he was doing much better. Then after a couple of months he tweeted from Antarctica about an expedition he was on. Seemed to be enjoying himself, but if the story is true I'm also without words.

 

[mesamonster]

The only scenario that makes sense if the Coyotes are to stay in the Valley is if AB surrenders or sells his position to another investor with deep pockets. Such an individual would then be able to supply the capital necessary to partner with developers in building a new venue. Present ownership does not have the wherewithal to see this through the years that it will take to relocate to the East. With the present on ice woes and the fundamentals of the organization deteriorating it is hard to see a white knight reaching Andy from his present debacle. I still maintain that without a new local buyer, GB will watch as AB struggles to pay the bills and is forced to seek protection using the courts. GB then retains an asset that is not encumbered by the $250MM debt that AB personally assumed last summer. Though this scenario may sound far fetched it remains the only way out for this beleaguered franchise.

 

[Llama19]

 

[Killion]

K.... don't remember if we ever brought this up here but about a year after IA took over Gosbee disappeared for a few months for some unknown medical reason. Then popped back out on Twitter to say he was doing much better. Then after a couple of months he tweeted from Antarctica about an expedition he was on. Seemed to be enjoying himself, but if the story is true I'm also without words.

Yeah theres just something not right about all of this. Must be some underlying situation that no one possibly other than he and perhaps a Doctor or two were aware of or whatever. Just bizarre. Doesnt add up. Make any sense... though sometimes sure enough, when such things occur they never do. Maybe the reasons will surface at some point in the future, maybe not. Despite all thats been said, all the negativity aimed at IceArizona over the years, I believe his heart was in the right place and that he genuinely hoped to make a difference, to see the team stay put, the franchise & hockey flourishing in Arizona. He stepped up to the plate when no one else would, gave the team the air it needed to breathe & prolong its life long enough for it to get up off the canvas & fight another day, and having done all that, and given what occurred on Sunday past, doesnt equate, doesnt jibe.... Life, people... who really knows? The older I get the more I realize just how little I really do know.... So how do you explain something like that? You just cant.

 

[Llama19]

Arizona Coyotes accused of not properly paying employees, union busting in NLRB complaints

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2017/11/15/arizona-coyotes-accused-not-properly-paying-employees-union-busting-nlrb-complaints/867408001/

 

[Killion]

Arizona Coyotes accused of not properly paying employees, union busting in NLRB complaints...

Yikes. Important thing to keep in mind here is that these were "allegations" & that the plaintiffs did settle with the Coyotes, assuming as well that the settlement required they sign NDA's. Regardless of whether true or not, its bad publicity, bad news for the organization which is clearly reeling from one of the worsts starts in NHL history, serious questions as to Andrew Barroways ability to absorb the losses through to the end of the season & the continuing uncertainty over their future in Arizona.

 

[mesamonster]

Arizona Coyotes accused of not properly paying employees, union busting in NLRB complaints

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2017/11/15/arizona-coyotes-accused-not-properly-paying-employees-union-busting-nlrb-complaints/867408001/

Simply another example of the type of dysfunctional organization this is. They are trying to cut costs wherever possible.

 

[TheLegend]

Yikes. Important thing to keep in mind here is that these were "allegations" & that the plaintiffs did settle with the Coyotes, assuming as well that the settlement required they sign NDA's. Regardless of whether true or not, its bad publicity, bad news for the organization which is clearly reeling from one of the worsts starts in NHL history, serious questions as to Andrew Barroways ability to absorb the losses through to the end of the season & the continuing uncertainty over their future in Arizona.

And apparently based on one person's allegations who was more than willing to settle.

Also about the time the cash calls were made on the IA partners wasn't it???

Simply another example of the type of dysfunctional organization this is. They are trying to cut costs wherever possible.

This all happened beginning 13 months ago, Mesa. Before Barroway bought out the other IA partners. Hard to say where the blame lies here until we find out more information. Likewise.... we don't know what it's like there now.

 

[Fairview]

^^^. Just to clarify, Borrowaway was the majority owner during the timeframe in question? And if he was then ultimately he is/was responsible.

 

[WildGopher]

I am sure it was discussed in the past that to build a new arena requires a public vote. However, a remodel only needs council appproval-thats the real reason for a $4oom remodel.

Another possibility, but admittedly pure conjecture: Could the $400+ million cost be because the plan includes reconfiguring the arena to have hockey sightlines? Very expensive, because it means basically "stretching" the the current arena floor and pulling down one end of the upper deck; and it doesn't fit our general opinion here that Sarver would want a Suns-only arena, but who knows?

By comparison, the just-completed remodeling of Minneapolis' Target Center, a very similar design to Talking Stick arena, cost $145 million, with half of that paid by the city. Target Center was built just three years before Talking Stick, but was built to accomodate hockey sight lines, unlike Talking Stick, whose floor is basketball-length.

 

[Killion]

Simply another example of the type of dysfunctional organization this is. They are trying to cut costs wherever possible.

.... uh..... I'd be careful in making that leap mesa..... unfortunately in this day & age its not entirely uncommon for disgruntled employee's who have their own axes to grind, personal agendas' & so on & so forth to either threaten employers or their bosses with labor board complaints or even spurious nonsense suits with the courts. I'm almost always highly skeptical of such claims unless the evidence is overwhelming with multiple complainants in a case like this one & in this case that evidence does not exist. You have 2 people who filed complaints & then settled withdrawing their complaints & who wont comment further as a result of those settlements which taken in totality simply doesnt pass the smell test.

I dont find either complainants stories believable, dont find them credible, raises all kinds of questions, alarm bells going off. Not entirely sure why this story is being run locally as it is as the complainants could just as easily have been on the make, as if not more likely than that the organization is over-working & underpaying, mistreating its nearly 100+ employees. If 6-10-20 people came forward then ok, clearly somethings very wrong. But 2? One from Payroll & one from Sales & Marketing? Not buying it. Look. This organization has enough trouble, enough problems as it is without further heaping on with what could well be cases of false witness, false claims made for monetary gain. We dont know. To then broadbrush based on that flimsy evidence? Ya. Dont think so. Not in my Court Councilor.

 

[mesamonster]

.... uh..... I'd be careful in making that leap mesa..... unfortunately in this day & age its not entirely uncommon for disgruntled employee's who have their own axes to grind, personal agendas' & so on & so forth to either threaten employers or their bosses with labor board complaints or even spurious nonsense suits with the courts. I'm almost always highly skeptical of such claims unless the evidence is overwhelming with multiple complainants in a case like this one & in this case that evidence does not exist. You have 2 people who filed complaints & then settled withdrawing their complaints & who wont comment further as a result of those settlements which taken in totality simply doesnt pass the smell test.

I dont find either complainants stories believable, dont find them credible, raises all kinds of questions, alarm bells going off. Not entirely sure why this story is being run locally as it is as the complainants could just as easily have been on the make, as if not more likely than that the organization is over-working & underpaying, mistreating its nearly 100+ employees. If 6-10-20 people came forward then ok, clearly somethings very wrong. But 2? One from Payroll & one from Sales & Marketing? Not buying it. Look. This organization has enough trouble, enough problems as it is without further heaping on with what could well be cases of false witness, false claims made for monetary gain. We dont know. To then broadbrush based on that flimsy evidence? Ya. Dont think so. Not in my Court Councilor.

Sure K, they may be false claims, but when every other corner is being cut by this organization it comes with little surprise that Andy is looking for every penny he can find.