Phoenix CXXXI: Looking for the Barroway Necessities

[mesamonster]

K, another thought, do you honestly believe that AB hired the best people possible to fill two of the most important positions in this organization? Both Chayka and Tocchet were hired not so much for their experience and abilities. The overwhelming concern was money, they are paying them almost nothing relative to their peers. I ask you, how are these two fellas doing? Not well, yet because of financial restraints AB has his hands tied and can't fire either of them, tough spot for him and the organization.

 

[Killion]

• Sure K, they may be false claims, but when every other corner is being cut by this organization it comes with little surprise that Andy is looking for every penny he can find.

I dont think he'd be taking it out of administrative & support, sales & marketing etc personnel there mesa. If he's gonna chop, he'd be chomping off bigger dollars with player contracts. I cant see him nickle & diming people in admin & elsewhere, abusing them in demanding they work overtime without pay & so on or trying to staff up with "Interns" & so on. Just not worth the hassle. I really dont know but it seems unlikely to me. 100 people doesnt sound like a "skeleton staff".....

And ya, to your 2nd post / comment, no question he decided to save $$$ on the hockey side, on & off ice contracts. Young GM, as for Rick Tocchet; I dont know what he's being paid but its likely in the mid=to-lower range. I havent really looked into it.... Have you? Was anyone else ever interested in Rick? Asst Coach on a Cup Winner, those guys often in demand so maybe Tocchet came at a higher price?.... I just dont know. Seems almost moot given the size of the fish this organization has to fry if they hope to hang in down there.

 

[mesamonster]

Cutting corners for a private equity guy comes with the territory. AB could have spent more on a GM ,but preferred to spend less and hired a young inexperienced analytics nerd. AB, after watching DT exit leaving millions on the table elected to hire an inexpensive HC. Why are all of these money ball issues emerging at omce? Because AB is not in this to win, he is in this to make money.

 

[TheLegend]

^^^. Just to clarify, Borrowaway was the majority owner during the timeframe in question? And if he was then ultimately he is/was responsible.

A few years ago I was subjected to working 85-90 hours a week for a 3 1/2 month period without overtime. The CEO of the company I worked for knew nothing about it.... nor did HR for the most part.... does that make them guilty??

I could have filed a complaint with the NLRB myself, but didn't. Nor did I hold the CEO responsible.

Also the article mentions that the Coyotes were guilty of anti-union activities. Arizona is a "right to work" state. If a union succeeded to organize workers in a business the company could fire everyone and replace them the next day without fear of any repercussions. The temp worker agencies here do a lot of business so there's plenty of resources available.

 

[TheLegend]

Cutting corners for a private equity guy comes with the territory. AB could have spent more on a GM ,but preferred to spend less and hired a young inexperienced analytics nerd. AB, after watching DT exit leaving millions on the table elected to hire an inexpensive HC. Why are all of these money ball issues emerging at omce? Because AB is not in this to win, he is in this to make money.

Uh..... Chayka was Gary Drummond's hire. Not Barroway's. Drummond was head of hockey ops the and had the autonomy to hire what personnel he wanted.

 

[mesamonster]

I dont think he'd be taking it out of administrative & support, sales & marketing etc personnel there mesa. If he's gonna chop, he'd be chomping off bigger dollars with player contracts. I cant see him nickle & diming people in admin & elsewhere, abusing them in demanding they work overtime without pay & so on or trying to staff up with "Interns" & so on. Just not worth the hassle. I really dont know but it seems unlikely to me. 100 people doesnt sound like a "skeleton staff".....

And ya, to your 2nd post / comment, no question he decided to save $$$ on the hockey side, on & off ice contracts. Young GM, as for Rick Tocchet; I dont know what he's being paid but its likely in the mid=to-lower range. I havent really looked into it.... Have you? Was anyone else ever interested in Rick? Asst Coach on a Cup Winner, those guys often in demand so maybe Tocchet came at a higher price?.... I just dont know. Seems almost moot given the size of the fish this organization has to fry if they hope to hang in down there.

I dont think he'd be taking it out of administrative & support, sales & marketing etc personnel there mesa. If he's gonna chop, he'd be chomping off bigger dollars with player contracts. I cant see him nickle & diming people in admin & elsewhere, abusing them in demanding they work overtime without pay & so on or trying to staff up with "Interns" & so on. Just not worth the hassle. I really dont know but it seems unlikely to me. 100 people doesnt sound like a "skeleton staff".....

And ya, to your 2nd post / comment, no question he decided to save $$$ on the hockey side, on & off ice contracts. Young GM, as for Rick Tocchet; I dont know what he's being paid but its likely in the mid=to-lower range. I havent really looked into it.... Have you? Was anyone else ever interested in Rick? Asst Coach on a Cup Winner, those guys often in demand so maybe Tocchet came at a higher price?.... I just dont know. Seems almost moot given the size of the fish this organization has to fry if they hope to hang in down there.

Couldn't disagree more, AB is a financial guy, not a hockey guy. Winning is secondary to making deals and money. His player payroll is already bottom of the barrel, there is no more to cut from that line item. When you are looking to make money you look at all items, marketing and admin are all a part of the whole. Don't kid yourself, this guy is hemorrhaging cash and every dollar saved helps. Chayka and Tocchet ate safe because he can't afford to let them go. Do a ittle homework on Tocchet his salary is bottom five in the league.

 

[mesamonster]

Uh..... Chayka was Gary Drummond's hire. Not Barroway's. Drummond was head of hockey ops the and had the autonomy to hire what personnel he wanted.

AB, now is the sole owner, he has had the ability to hire a more qualified GM for some time now, who hired him is of no consequence. Chayka is being put on this pedestal for what? Look at the NYR trade, he got a C level goaltender in Raanta and a third line center in Stepan. Just a small sample that pure analytics are not the answer.

 

[Killion]

Uh..... Chayka was Gary Drummond's hire. Not Barroway's. Drummond was head of hockey ops the and had the autonomy to hire what personnel he wanted.

... ya, thx TL... I thought there was something a little off-kilter about that premise, that Barroway had hired Chayka.... that goes back to the LeBlanc-Drummond-Tippett shakeup.... Chayka last man standing & handed the keys to the car. He's young so yes very likely inexpensive but I'm sure he's no fool either, there are support structures from within, from Coaching & Scouting Staff. Its no secret Barroway's not exactly rolling in it, hard up against, but again I get back to the fundamentals here.... hockey ops even with an inexpensive off & on-ice team should be able to function, motor along tickety boo. Clearly they are not, havent thus far, but I dont think $$$ is the real problem here with that situation.

What we are concerned with here on this Board is the bigger picture, namely the business side of the operation & how they plan to go about funding a new facility, when & where, how, with who and so on & so on..... Not real interested in labor relations spats with a couple of employee's (out of 100) or what Chayka & Tocchet are earning, that the teams residing in the cellar in terms of CAP as expected given the circumstances. If people want to discuss specifics about team performance, contracts, salaries etc, they can do so on the Coyotes Team Page. The Won/Loss record, yes, thats relevant as it will eventually affect Gate, but if people want to discuss the Clubs record at length... please head to the Team Page to do so.

 

[TheLegend]

AB, now is the sole owner, he has had the ability to hire a more qualified GM for some time now, who hired him is of no consequence. Chayka is being put on this pedestal for what? Look at the NYR trade, he got a C level goaltender in Raanta and a third line center in Stepan. Just a small sample that pure analytics are not the answer.

Raanta's been injured and Stepan is being retasked to play opposite of what he did for the Rangers. Neither one of those players has made the type of mistakes that have cost the Coyotes games. You're chucking mud right now trying to get something to stick. Just give it a rest.

Let's find out what comes from this NLRB investigation first and go from there.

 

[mesamonster]

... ya, thx TL... I thought there was something a little off-kilter about that premise, that Barroway had hired Chayka.... that goes back to the LeBlanc-Drummond-Tippett shakeup.... Chayka last man standing & handed the keys to the car. He's young so yes very likely inexpensive but I'm sure he's no fool either, there are support structures from within, from Coaching & Scouting Staff. Its no secret Barroway's not exactly rolling in it, hard up against, but again I get back to the fundamentals here.... hockey ops even with an inexpensive off & on-ice team should be able to function, motor along tickety boo. Clearly they are not, havent thus far, but I dont think $$$ is the real problem here with that situation.

What we are concerned with here on this Board is the bigger picture, namely the business side of the operation & how they plan to go about funding a new facility, when & where, how, with who and so on & so on..... Not real interested in labor relations spats with a couple of employee's (out of 100) or what Chayka & Tocchet are earning, that the teams residing in the cellar in terms of CAP as expected given the circumstances. If people want to discuss specifics about team performance, contracts, salaries etc, they can do so on the Coyotes Team Page. The Won/Loss record, yes, thats relevant as it will eventually affect Gate, but if people want to discuss the Clubs record at length... please head to the Team Page to do so.

Sure lets talk about arena funding! If AB is cutting costs everywhere you look how is he going to fund a new arena? I think the minutiae of the financial running of this team has everything and more to do with his ability to pay for anew arena. The two go hand in hand and can hardly be seen as mutually exclusive. To be out covertly suggesting that they may be working on a new stadium and telegraphing to the fans that with Patterson in control they may in fact land a new building is disingenuous in my eyes. Can we just state the facts here, there is little to no hope for a publicly funded arena, and we know AB does not have the capital. Knowing that GRA is a no-go, then what are we to conclude? That cutting internal costs, including Chayka and Tocchet is integral to this thread. This is in fact "the business of hockey" as we have micro econ and macro econ! In this case, the microeconomics of running the Coyotes has EVERYTHING to do with their ability to fund a new arena or just offer the empty platitudes that they are attempting to fool the public with.

 

[mesamonster]

Raanta's been injured and Stepan is being retasked to play opposite of what he did for the Rangers. Neither one of those players has made the type of mistakes that have cost the Coyotes games. You're chucking mud right now trying to get something to stick. Just give it a rest.

Let's find out what comes from this NLRB investigation first and go from there.

No need to be defensive about the trade, as of now, it was not a great trade. That may change as the year progresses, but most people believe he made a good one, I happen to think differently.

 

[Killion]

Couldn't disagree more, AB is a financial guy, not a hockey guy. Winning is secondary to making deals and money. His player payroll is already bottom of the barrel, there is no more to cut from that line item. When you are looking to make money you look at all items, marketing and admin are all a part of the whole. Don't kid yourself, this guy is hemorrhaging cash and every dollar saved helps. Chayka and Tocchet ate safe because he can't afford to let them go. Do a ittle homework on Tocchet his salary is bottom five in the league.

Winning is not secondary to making money with a pro sports team when you own an already distressed franchise in an overcrowded & "challenging" to say the least market. While Chayka & Tocchet (I'll take your word on his lower range Salary) are not making Shanahan or Babcock type dollars they arent making chicken feed either, and nor are the players even those on ELC's. How did Jack Adams, Punch Imlach, Pollock, Blake & Bowman, Shero, Arbor & all those that followed manage to pull off what they did when they squeezed nickles so hard the Indian rode the Buffalo?

All in, Barroways dropping over $55M on Coyotes salaries (not to mention the kids on the farm in Tucson) along with Head Coaches & Assistants, Scouts, Trainers & on & on. Thats nothin to sneeze at. In todays NHL even if your a CAP cellar dweller you should be competitive. If your not? Then you have a problem and I would suggest it has nothing to do with what your spending & everything to do with who youve hired to Manage & or Coach. Its not even halfway through the season so lets just see what transpires & how he reacts, what he does at seasons end. Is this losing streak good for business, for making money, minimizing losses? Obviously not. Winning is not secondary to Barroway, right now its everything & he's watching a disaster unfold right before his very eyes on top of everything else. So no, this aint good. Far from secondary mesa. Being competitive, playing at least .500 critical at this juncture.

... and if your right, that he's really just a Reptile who could care less, has no honor, no pride, no shame... a flip job waiting to happen, we'll find out the truth about that pretty quick too huh?.

 

[TheLegend]

No need to be defensive about the trade, as of now, it was not a great trade. That may change as the year progresses, but most people believe he made a good one, I happen to think differently.

Who's being defensive??? Me thinks you're scrambling to climb out of the corner you've painted yourself into.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

With Golden Knights I wonder if NHL is far less desperate to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix.

 

[mesamonster]

Who's being defensive??? Me thinks you're scrambling to climb out of the corner you've painted yourself into.

What corner is that?

 

[mesamonster]

Winning is not secondary to making money with a pro sports team when you own an already distressed franchise in an overcrowded & "challenging" to say the least market. While Chayka & Tocchet (I'll take your word on his lower range Salary) are not making Shanahan or Babcock type dollars they arent making chicken feed either, and nor are the players even those on ELC's. How did Jack Adams, Punch Imlach, Pollock, Blake & Bowman, Shero, Arbor & all those that followed manage to pull off what they did when they squeezed nickles so hard the Indian rode the Buffalo?

All in, Barroways dropping over $55M on Coyotes salaries (not to mention the kids on the farm in Tucson) along with Head Coaches & Assistants, Scouts, Trainers & on & on. Thats nothin to sneeze at. In todays NHL even if your a CAP cellar dweller you should be competitive. If your not? Then you have a problem and I would suggest it has nothing to do with what your spending & everything to do with who youve hired to Manage & or Coach. Its not even halfway through the season so lets just see what transpires & how he reacts, what he does at seasons end. Is this losing streak good for business, for making money, minimizing losses? Obviously not. Winning is not secondary to Barroway, right now its everything & he's watching a disaster unfold right before his very eyes on top of everything else. So no, this aint good. Far from secondary mesa. Being competitive, playing at least .500 critical at this juncture.

... and if your right, that he's really just a Reptile who could care less, has no honor, no pride, no shame... a flip job waiting to happen, we'll find out the truth about that pretty quick too huh?.

What has AB done to improve their winning percentages since the season began? He should start by looking at those responsible for managing and selecting the present roster. Clesrly, there is something missing in what these individuals are attempting to acheive?

 

[Llama19]

Details of Phoenix Suns arena deal still cloudy, but its defeat is becoming clearer

To quote:

"Stanton previously championed the idea of a joint arena for the Suns and the Arizona Coyotes, making it a focal point of his 2016 State of the City speech.

"I as mayor will do everything I can to pursue a course that makes a new facility home to the Suns, the Mercury and the Coyotes," Stanton said in the address.

In a statement Wednesday, Stanton said, "It is essential to the success of our downtown that we have a competitive, state-of-the-art arena that can host the kind of large-scale events we have come to enjoy in our city as well as keep the Suns and Mercury here over the long-term.

"I am prepared to support a renovation agreement that does not raise taxes, is fair to our residents, and keeps the arena competitive. I will only support a proposal that meets these objectives."

The Coyotes were absent from the mayor's latest statement."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2017/11/16/details-phoenix-suns-arena-deal-still-cloudy-but-its-defeat-becoming-clearer/859158001/

 

[GindyDraws]

Don't mean any disrespect, but the sooner the Coyotes move, the better off the team will be.

This has gone beyond comedic into criminal territory.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

The malfeasance investigations into the Coyotes' HR practices does not surprise me a bit, given the way the IceArizona partners ran the team. Take one look at the Compliance Review with Glendale and the signs are all there. The only thing I'd dispute is that Barroway would be the culpable party - I'd surmise that the dysfunction probably predated Barroway's inclusion into the ownership group.

 

[Llama19]

Arizona Coyotes accused of not properly paying employees, union busting in NLRB complaints

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2017/11/15/arizona-coyotes-accused-not-properly-paying-employees-union-busting-nlrb-complaints/867408001/

More details from KJZZ's The Show (click the link for Nov. 16, 2017 podcast) on Coyotes lawsuits

Source (starts at approximately the 40:30 time mark): The Show

 

[mesamonster]

The malfeasance investigations into the Coyotes' HR practices does not surprise me a bit, given the way the IceArizona partners ran the team. Take one look at the Compliance Review with Glendale and the signs are all there. The only thing I'd dispute is that Barroway would be the culpable party - I'd surmise that the dysfunction probably predated Barroway's inclusion into the ownership group.

For what dates were the complaints lodged? If they occurred in either 15-16, he may have been a party to the malfeasance. He was introduced as the majority owner January 2, 2015.

 

[Mightygoose]

Breaking news! Breaking News!

Anthony LeBlanc has been sighted.

Part of a group to bring.....A CFL team in Halifax

Group makes ‘very credible’ pitch for Halifax CFL franchise - Article - TSN


'We have had discussions with the CFL’s board of governors and ongoing discussions with commissioner Ambrosie,” said Anthony Leblanc, a partner in the group and former president and CEO of the NHL’s Arizona Coyotes'

Though I'd love to see the Atlantic Schooners finally come to fruition....run away Randy....run away!!!...Rather keep it 9!

Edit: Gary Drummond is part of this group too. Barroway's (bank) buyout money to be tapped into.

 

[Killion]

Breaking news! Breaking News!

Anthony LeBlanc has been sighted.

Though I'd love to see the Atlantic Schooners finally come to fruition....run away Randy....run away!!!...Rather keep it 9!

.... well that answers the "Wheres Tony"? questions..... He & Drummond cashing Barroways checks, next stop Halifax.... that is just too much... cant stop laughing..... "very credible presentation"..... yeah, I just bet it was.... reckon those Boys will fit right in with the CFL if they can pull this one off.

 

[TheLegend]

.... well that answers the "Wheres Tony"? questions..... He & Drummond cashing Barroways checks, next stop Halifax.... that is just too much... cant stop laughing..... "very credible presentation"..... yeah, I just bet it was.... reckon those Boys will fit right in with the CFL if they can pull this one off.

And here everyone thought the IA boys left penny less??

 

[cbcwpg]

And here everyone thought the IA boys left penny less??

Being an owner in the CFL can be a direct path to ending up penny less.