Phil Kessel. Trade Watch On? | He's Literally Frozen

[Gary Nylund]

There is valid points for both keeping Phil and moving Phil for other assets.

If the Leafs decide to get rid of the rest of the core starting with Dion and Lupul, and gain young assets/picks and cap space, then keeping Phil may be possible.

If you want to re-build from youth and picks, then you try and move Phil and his contract along with the others mentioned.

Personally, I think it will be harder to move Dion and Lupul for instance for young assets/picks without bringing back a contract as well.

Phil probably gives the best chance of getting young assets and picks without having to take back a contract similar in stature. Although I doubt we get the popular Jones and a 1st for Phil. Would we trade Rielly and a 1st for Phil? Many would freak at moving Rielly, so why would Nashville move a potential top 10 d-man and a first for a Kessel? Jones could eventually replace Weber down the road. Ellis, a 1st + a mid prospect is something I think Nash may be willing to do.

With the state of the Leaf organization, trading Phil may be the best chance to start to build a solid team. On the other hand, if the Leafs can figure out a way to surround him with the right players (although I don't see how), then keeping Phil can be a positive.

If we a contender and I thought that this trade significantly improved our cup chances over the next 2-3 years? Hell yeah!

I keep thinking about when Calgary traded Brett Hull. Some people say it was a horrible trade. Calgary won the cup though, how many cups did St. Louis win with Hull. If St. Louis could trade all the goals Hull scored for them for just one Stanley Cup, do you think they would do it? I know I would.

 

[Daisy Jane]

That's not what I said at all. You really need to work on your reading comprehension. Would save you from a lot of arguments. So are you taking the bet or nah?

what's the bet?

 

[silentbob37*]

That's not what I said at all. You really need to work on your reading comprehension. Would save you from a lot of arguments. So are you taking the bet or nah?

Fine, I'll change it. If Kessel is traded for Jones in the next 12 months.

And I've said several times IF Kessel is traded it won't be until the off-season, that his contract is too big, too long, and a deal would be too complicated to be dealt at the dead line. Not the kind of mistake you should make right before you try to insult someone for reading comprehension. Also trying to distract from your reluctance from taking the bet by trying to make one yourself.......kind of pathetic.

 

[RLF]

No its not. To the comment that Kessel isn't in optimal shape this was said



Yes, Kessel is good enough shape to play his game. But is good enough good enough? Would being in optimal shape not improve Kessel's game? At the very least, is there any way being in better shape would hurt Kessel's game?



I've yet to hear a good reason to keep him. It maybe POSSIBLE to keep him, but there is no reason too, other then keep Mits happy.

As I said, if they can figure out a way to surround him with the right players(which doesn't seem likely) then keeping him can be a positive moving forward. He is a good complimentary piece that scores goals, which is not a bad thing, just not something to build around. You add Phil to pieces like the Hawks already have, or LA, maybe STL or even VAN, but not with what Toronto has. The only way he stays in T.O, is if somehow, they get pieces that Phil will compliment and not the other way around.imo

 

[RLF]

If we a contender and I thought that this trade significantly improved our cup chances over the next 2-3 years? Hell yeah!

I keep thinking about when Calgary traded Brett Hull. Some people say it was a horrible trade. Calgary won the cup though, how many cups did St. Louis win with Hull. If St. Louis could trade all the goals Hull scored for them for just one Stanley Cup, do you think they would do it? I know I would.

Are you suggesting Nashville is a Cup contender?

 

[silentbob37*]

what's the bet?

That Kessel will be dealt at the deadline this year.

What mits failed at (this time) is realize that I don't think he will be nor have argued he would be the way Mits is arguing that Kessel will/could get the Leafs Jones in a deal. He fails to understand the point is, arguing "its fair value, its not, it is, its not" is pointless so I put in such a way that he has to stand by what he is saying rather then just making silly arguments. I'm willing to stand by my statement that the Predators won't trade Jones for Kessel, but it doesn't appear he willign to stand by his that the Predators would make that deal.

Now if Mits wants to try to hide the fact that he is too scared to accept the bet, and doesn't want to admit that he doesn't REALLY think the Predators would move Jones, by trying to make one himself he'd have to do it about something I've actually said and argued for like.......the Leafs won't be good enough to win a cup until they blow this core up (ie - if a core of Kessel, Phaneuf, Bozak, Lupul, JVR etc.... win a cup I lose - if they don't before they are broken up or retire or leave, I win etc....)

 

[silentbob37*]

As I said, if they can figure out a way to surround him with the right players(which doesn't seem likely) then keeping him can be a positive moving forward. He is a good complimentary piece that scores goals, which is not a bad thing, just not something to build around. You add Phil to pieces like the Hawks already have, or LA, maybe STL or even VAN, but not with what Toronto has. The only way he stays in T.O, is if somehow, they get pieces that Phil will compliment and not the other way around.imo

Thats the thing, no one has suggetsed a realistic way to do that, at least not in the next 3-5 seasons.

Originally Posted by Gary Nylund View Post
If we a contender and I thought that this trade significantly improved our cup chances over the next 2-3 years? Hell yeah!

Thing is, the Predators don't have trouble scoring goals. They are 10th int he league in goals for, have the 3rd highest differental. They also aren't a cap team, they have almost 11 million in cap space because......thats what they can afford.

Even assuming they could afford Kessel, I'm sure they wouldn't mind adding him (if they think he could fit into their system which is probably a question, but not for their 20 year old D-man with Franchise player, Norris d-man potential.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Fine, I'll change it. If Kessel is traded for Jones in the next 12 months.

And I've said several times IF Kessel is traded it won't be until the off-season, that his contract is too big, too long, and a deal would be too complicated to be dealt at the dead line. Not the kind of mistake you should make right before you try to insult someone for reading comprehension. Also trying to distract from your reluctance from taking the bet by trying to make one yourself.......kind of pathetic.

I don't think Kessel will be traded any time soon, for anyone. What I am saying is that IF Kessel is traded to Nashville, I, and others would want Jones coming back in the deal. I don't remember your posts, you have not said that you think Kessel will be dealt in the offseason in any of the posts that I have quoted you in.

You on the other hand have misconstrued basically everything in my posts that you have quoted. That's what reading comprehension is. I'm not going to take that bet when I don't think Kessel will be traded at all

I'm giving you an out. I'll change the bet to, Kessel won't be traded AT ALL before the next season starts.

That Kessel will be dealt at the deadline this year.

What mits failed at (this time) is realize that I don't think he will be nor have argued he would be the way Mits is arguing that Kessel will/could get the Leafs Jones in a deal. He fails to understand the point is, arguing "its fair value, its not, it is, its not" is pointless so I put in such a way that he has to stand by what he is saying rather then just making silly arguments. I'm willing to stand by my statement that the Predators won't trade Jones for Kessel, but it doesn't appear he willign to stand by his that the Predators would make that deal.

Now if Mits wants to try to hide the fact that he is too scared to accept the bet, and doesn't want to admit that he doesn't REALLY think the Predators would move Jones, by trying to make one himself he'd have to do it about something I've actually said and argued for like.......the Leafs won't be good enough to win a cup until they blow this core up (ie - if a core of Kessel, Phaneuf, Bozak, Lupul, JVR etc.... win a cup I lose - if they don't before they are broken up or retire or leave, I win etc....)

I have no ****ing clue if the Predators will trade Seth Jones, Shea Weber, Roman Josi, James Neal, Filip Forsberg or anyone else on their roster, for ANYONE. Neither do you. Neither of us are privy to that information. I'm not hiding behind anything. Over and over again I have maintained that I don't know if a trade with Nashville will even happen, let alone one for Jones. What I have maintained is that, in my opinion, and others in this thread, that the fair value for Phil Kessel from Nashville would be Seth Jones +. This is why I'm saying you have trouble with reading comprehension. You are making up arguments and going on from that.

Here's the two bets I am willing to make:

A) Phil Kessel won't be traded before next season
B) If Phil Kessel is traded to Nashville, it will include Seth Jones

Choose one.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Are you suggesting Nashville is a Cup contender?

Absolutely I do. Is that surprising? I believe they have the best defense in the league, goaltending is always key in the playoffs and they have one of the best in the game, add Kessel to the mix and they'd be very tough to beat!

Just in theory:

Kessel and Franson for Jones and a 1st would make them much better overnight and give them an excellent shot at winning the cup this year. Even if Franson signs elsewhere, they're still better as a team for the next 2-3 years or so.

 

[silentbob37*]

I don't think Kessel will be traded any time soon, for anyone. What I am saying is that IF Kessel is traded to Nashville, I, and others would want Jones coming back in the deal. I don't remember your posts, you have not said that you think Kessel will be dealt in the offseason in any of the posts that I have quoted you in.

You on the other hand have misconstrued basically everything in my posts that you have quoted. That's what reading comprehension is. I'm not going to take that bet when I don't think Kessel will be traded at all

I'm giving you an out. I'll change the bet to, Kessel won't be traded AT ALL before the next season starts.



I have no ****ing clue if the Predators will trade Seth Jones, Shea Weber, Roman Josi, James Neal, Filip Forsberg or anyone else on their roster, for ANYONE. Neither do you. Neither of us are privy to that information. I'm not hiding behind anything. Over and over again I have maintained that I don't know if a trade with Nashville will even happen, let alone one for Jones. What I have maintained is that, in my opinion, and others in this thread, that the fair value for Phil Kessel from Nashville would be Seth Jones +. This is why I'm saying you have trouble with reading comprehension. You are making up arguments and going on from that.

Here's the two bets I am willing to make:

A) Phil Kessel won't be traded before next season
B) If Phil Kessel is traded to Nashville, it will include Seth Jones

Choose one.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Look who is the scared one now

 

[Gary Nylund]

Here's the two bets I am willing to make:

A) Phil Kessel won't be traded before next season
B) If Phil Kessel is traded to Nashville, it will include Seth Jones

Choose one.

Wow that's pretty bold - I think it's a definite possibility that Kessel goes to Nashville without Jones coming back. Though I agree it is more likely that if Kessel goes there, Jones is coming back this way.

Silentbob - you have insisted all along that Jones will not be part of any trade for Kessel. You have said it in absolute terms and have said it repeatedly. Based on that, you have zero chance of losing this bet.

If you don't accept, I will have to nominate you for this forums biggest blowhard.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Absolutely I do. Is that surprising? I believe they have the best defense in the league, goaltending is always key in the playoffs and they have one of the best in the game, add Kessel to the mix and they'd be very tough to beat!

Just in theory:

Kessel and Franson for Jones and a 1st would make them much better overnight and give them an excellent shot at winning the cup this year. Even if Franson signs elsewhere, they're still better as a team for the next 2-3 years or so.

and - Chicago/LA are slumping which makes their life so much easier this season.
Kessel would be a great risk for them to have to put them on the top this year.

(and then i'd cry that Nashville freaking won the cup before we did. (sigh).)

 

[RLF]

Absolutely I do. Is that surprising? I believe they have the best defense in the league, goaltending is always key in the playoffs and they have one of the best in the game, add Kessel to the mix and they'd be very tough to beat!

Just in theory:

Kessel and Franson for Jones and a 1st would make them much better overnight and give them an excellent shot at winning the cup this year. Even if Franson signs elsewhere, they're still better as a team for the next 2-3 years or so.

Yes, it is a bit surprising because if you remove Jones and add Kessel, do they still have one of the best defences in the league? They are very old up-front. I see this year as a bonus, but do not expect to see Nashville as a cup finalist this year or the next two or three as per your previous scenario. I guess only time will tell.

You also added Franson to the mix to get Jones and a 1st. Franson alone may be worth a late 1st at the moment. Completely different than for Kessel straight up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

and - Chicago/LA are slumping which makes their life so much easier this season.
Kessel would be a great risk for them to have to put them on the top this year.

(and then i'd cry that Nashville freaking won the cup before we did. (sigh).)

Meh, I'd be happy for Kessel. All the crap heaped on him here, would be nice to see him have a good time someplace else.

May I'm getting jaded but I find it hard to even hope for a cup in my lifetime. My hope are more modest these days, I'd be thrilled just to have a good team that MTL fans don't feel sorry for. And I'd love to see them play MTL in the playoffs again. Notice I don't even dare hope to beat them in the playoffs, just to play them would be a thrill. Sigh ...

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes, it is a bit surprising because if you remove Jones and add Kessel, do they still have one of the best defences in the league? They are very old up-front. I see this year as a bonus, but do not expect to see Nashville as a cup finalist this year or the next two or three as per your previous scenario. I guess only time will tell.

You also added Franson to the mix to get Jones and a 1st. Franson alone may be worth a late 1st at the moment. Completely different than for Kessel straight up.

That may be an argument for shooting for the brass ring now no? Weber's gonna be 30 before next season rolls around too, he's not gonna play at this level forever either.

I think it's fair to say that Nashville is absolutely a contender as they are right now and replacing Jones with Kessel makes them better in the short term. Toss in Franson and right now, they are much much better.

What's wrong with adding Franson to the mix? He's gone anyway and the most we can hope for in return IMO is a non-lottery 1st. If Kessel is to get traded, Jones is as elite a player as we could possibly hope to get in return. I haven't really thought about it for very long so maybe I'm missing something but at first blush I think this trade could be good for both teams.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Meh, I'd be happy for Kessel. All the crap heaped on him here, would be nice to see him have a good time someplace else.

May I'm getting jaded but I find it hard to even hope for a cup in my lifetime. My hope are more modest these days, I'd be thrilled just to have a good team that MTL fans don't feel sorry for. And I'd love to see them play MTL in the playoffs again. Notice I don't even dare hope to beat them in the playoffs, just to play them would be a thrill. Sigh ...

i know the leafs will win a cup in my life time. in fact they can win two in my life time if i play my cards right. it will work out eventually with the organization.

anyway, as i've been stating - i think it's best for the organization right now if Kessel goes - and we get a boatload for him. we rebuild right, and Phil can play hockey where he doesn't have to be (nor shouldn't be) the focal point.

 

[RLF]

That may be an argument for shooting for the brass ring now no? Weber's gonna be 30 before next season rolls around too, he's not gonna play at this level forever either.

I think it's fair to say that Nashville is absolutely a contender as they are right now and replacing Jones with Kessel makes them better in the short term. Toss in Franson and right now, they are much much better.

What's wrong with adding Franson to the mix? He's gone anyway and the most we can hope for in return IMO is a non-lottery 1st. If Kessel is to get traded, Jones is as elite a player as we could possibly hope to get in return. I haven't really thought about it for very long so maybe I'm missing something but at first blush I think this trade could be good for both teams.

Trading away your future for a one-time shot is exactly what Leafs fans are mad about that the Leafs have done...over and over again. I just don't think Nashville is a legitimate contender this year. Even with Kessel, I don't think they have enough up-front and virtually no real playoff experience from that team as a group together.

The Franson part- I meant that is better for Nashville and they may consider it compared to, Kessel for Jones and a 1st straight up, which I don't believe they would do. On the Toronto side, it is basically Kessel for Jones and Franson for a late 1st. I do think though that if Jones gets traded, it will be for a young centre and a D and not a winger. I think they might be more interested in Kadri + or Nylander+ for Jones than Kessel if they were dealing with the Leafs.

 

[ITM]

Can't believe the overvalued/undervalued model where Jones and Kessel is concerned as potential exchange. If we were talking about Ekblad, I could see a closer approximation.

Kessel, IF he were to be traded, must return at least what was paid (Not a 2nd ovr. and a 9th ovr. the next year)in two firsts or approximate same value. But the FACT of the matter is, Kessel, as a forward acquired for his production and NOT his "two-way game", has increased his value.

One reservation remains in targeting picks...We generally screw them up.

But to think for a moment that value lacks to get Jones and a 1st (and more, thank you very much) for Kessel alone is a sure sign that our fanbase is in a collective depression, deforming worth in the opposite direction to which we typically mistaken.

We're rudderless, not talentless.

 

[Banana Squid]

Are you suggesting Nashville is a Cup contender?

They would be if they added Phil and got Rinne back to full health. Heck, with Rinne healthy they are, at the very least, in the conversation of teams that could come out of the west.

 

[Legion34]

Trading away your future for a one-time shot is exactly what Leafs fans are mad about that the Leafs have done...over and over again. I just don't think Nashville is a legitimate contender this year. Even with Kessel, I don't think they have enough up-front and virtually no real playoff experience from that team as a group together.

The Franson part- I meant that is better for Nashville and they may consider it compared to, Kessel for Jones and a 1st straight up, which I don't believe they would do. On the Toronto side, it is basically Kessel for Jones and Franson for a late 1st. I do think though that if Jones gets traded, it will be for a young centre and a D and not a winger. I think they might be more interested in Kadri + or Nylander+ for Jones than Kessel if they were dealing with the Leafs.

One and done? Kessel is signed for 7.5 yrs with 6 of those in prime yrs (27-32).

Jones is closer to ufa than phil

 

[Stephen]

Trading away your future for a one-time shot is exactly what Leafs fans are mad about that the Leafs have done...over and over again. I just don't think Nashville is a legitimate contender this year. Even with Kessel, I don't think they have enough up-front and virtually no real playoff experience from that team as a group together.

The Franson part- I meant that is better for Nashville and they may consider it compared to, Kessel for Jones and a 1st straight up, which I don't believe they would do. On the Toronto side, it is basically Kessel for Jones and Franson for a late 1st. I do think though that if Jones gets traded, it will be for a young centre and a D and not a winger. I think they might be more interested in Kadri + or Nylander+ for Jones than Kessel if they were dealing with the Leafs.

Nashville doesn't have a center, but David Poile is a guy who loves a speedy winger to build around. I could see him casting Kessel in a Peter Bondra type role in Nashville. They have Kessel, Neal, Forsberg is quite a bit of firepower, and they'd still have their twin towers in Weber and Josi, and Rinne in net. Kessel doesn't fit in our window, but for the next three or four years he's a nice fit in Nashville.

Jones is a great kid, but by the time he hits his prime, a guy like Weber might be past his prime.

 

[Menzinger]

Trading away your future for a one-time shot is exactly what Leafs fans are mad about that the Leafs have done...over and over again. I just don't think Nashville is a legitimate contender this year. Even with Kessel, I don't think they have enough up-front and virtually no real playoff experience from that team as a group together.

The Franson part- I meant that is better for Nashville and they may consider it compared to, Kessel for Jones and a 1st straight up, which I don't believe they would do. On the Toronto side, it is basically Kessel for Jones and Franson for a late 1st. I do think though that if Jones gets traded, it will be for a young centre and a D and not a winger. I think they might be more interested in Kadri + or Nylander+ for Jones than Kessel if they were dealing with the Leafs.

Except Nashville is currently much better situated. They already have a #1 Defencement who is currently in his prime, and signed to big money - if they want to get the most out of him, they will need to focus on building up the current core while he is in his prime. It's not like the leafs have been, where they traded away their future, while not having anything. The Predators aren't looking 7 seasons down the road from now, when Jones will be in his prime.

 

[Erdinger]

i know the leafs will win a cup in my life time. in fact they can win two in my life time if i play my cards right. it will work out eventually with the organization

Daisy the oldest woman in the world only lived to 122. I think you are being overly optimistic.

 

[Sergei Berezin]

Keep Phil... By the time the Leafs are ready to actually contend, I think Phil will still be a stud. He's not the type of player that will wear down. Grow pieces around him, and hope that someone will step up past him. It's abundantly clear that he's not a detriment to any tanking concerns on his own.

I don't think there will be a full rebuild, but rather a three year retool... there are decent enough pieces around that if the cards are properly placed and the rights pieces are moved, it won't be long before the team is in the playoffs.

But I'm an optimist.