Player Discussion Peyton Krebs C/LW (acquired from Vegas)

[Archie Lee]

You're crying about a guy who has had one career year... ?

And when did "we chase" him out of town?

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I'll leave you to your opinion on Krebs.

I don't think the point on Montour, though, is that we gave up on a perennial Norris candidate. The point is that when Montour was here, he wasn't very good and many fans had concluded you can't win with stiffs like him in the line-up. Turns out though, you can win and make the playoffs and sometimes make deep playoff runs with players like Montour and Evan Rodrigues and Jimmy Vesey and Colin Miller and Connor Sheary and Jake McCabe and Marco Scandella, etc., in your line-up. And, we may soon find out that teams that are headed to the playoffs see some value in adding an Okposo, Girgensens, E. Johnson or Olofsson (and maybe not).

No, this isn't a lament for us losing any of these players or a preemptive lament for us losing anyone on the current team. It is just that it has become an annual tradition for Sabre fans to dump on players only to see them go on to function perfectly well and in some cases thrive in appropriate roles in different environments.

 

[Archie Lee]

No he won’t. He does nothing above average. Hell his own jr coach said he is a bottom 6 forward.

Like all NHL teams, the Sabres need bottom 6 forwards.

 

[Tatanka]

Like all NHL teams, the Sabres need bottom 6 forwards.

No doubt. But you do not develop them. You acquire league vets who know their role and and fulfill it, often at a lower tier salary. This team needs some veteran maturity and commitment to fundamentals, that is easier to acquire via veteran ufas, who are willing to do it to extend their careers. Trying to develop someone who imho doesn’t have the tools to play up the lineup hurts those that do.

 

[Chainshot]

No doubt. But you do not develop them. You acquire league vets who know their role and and fulfill it, often at a lower tier salary. This team needs some veteran maturity and commitment to fundamentals, that is easier to acquire via veteran ufas, who are willing to do it to extend their careers. Trying to develop someone who imho doesn’t have the tools to play up the lineup hurts those that do.

Or you develop them from try hard, mit-to-late round picks and UDFAs so that they can be on cheap deals instead of paying for past performance elsewhere.

Buffalo is not good at doing either.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

There is literally nothing that frustrates me more at this point than people who refuse to learn from their mistakes. How many guys do we have to stupidly run out of town and have it come back to bite us right in the ass in the worst way possible?

That’s why coachability is extremely important - and why scouting prospects from your couch is ineffective. You need to talk to the junior coaches to learn that kind of thing.

 

[Tatanka]

Or you develop them from try hard, mit-to-late round picks and UDFAs so that they can be on cheap deals instead of paying for past performance elsewhere.

Buffalo is not good at doing either.

Very true. On both counts. Again I think the lack of veteran presence in Rochester like the Sabres impedes that process. There is such a thing as too many prospects.

 

[Archie Lee]

No doubt. But you do not develop them. You acquire league vets who know their role and and fulfill it, often at a lower tier salary. This team needs some veteran maturity and commitment to fundamentals, that is easier to acquire via veteran ufas, who are willing to do it to extend their careers. Trying to develop someone who imho doesn’t have the tools to play up the lineup hurts those that do.

Sorry, but championship teams most definitely do develop their own bottom 6 players. Nic Roy, William Carrier, Keegan Kolesar, Logan O'Connor, JT Compher, Ross Colton, Cedric Paquette, Yanni Gourde, etc., etc., all played important bottom 6 roles on the past 3 Cup winners and had no appreciable time in the NHL with any other team before hand. You will say that Krebs is not at the level of player that most of these guys are, but none of them were that level at 23 either.

 

[Tatanka]

Sorry, but championship teams most definitely do develop their own bottom 6 players. Nic Roy, William Carrier, Keegan Kolesar, Logan O'Connor, JT Compher, Ross Colton, Cedric Paquette, Yanni Gourde, etc., etc., all played important bottom 6 roles on the past 3 Cup winners and had no appreciable time in the NHL with any other team before hand. You will say that Krebs is not at the level of player that most of these guys are, but none of them were that level at 23 either.

Roy, Carrier and Kolesar were acquired not developed. Compher was acquired but played a second line role for amgoodmportion of his time in Co. the Tampa players were non-first round picks that filled out a star studded line up. The experiment with Krebs is give him better players he will become a top 6 guy. That is not happening. So your examples buttress the point that you can acquire the bottom guys needed. The Tampa example ignores the lack of top end talent to be leaned on to get to the playoffs and ultimately be successful. Krebs isn’t going to be the next MacKinnon, he might be a serviceable 3/4 line winger. But right now he can’t bring any experience or knowledge about winning in the NHL because he hasn’t.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I'll leave you to your opinion on Krebs.

I don't think the point on Montour, though, is that we gave up on a perennial Norris candidate. The point is that when Montour was here, he wasn't very good and many fans had concluded you can't win with stiffs like him in the line-up. Turns out though, you can win and make the playoffs and sometimes make deep playoff runs with players like Montour and Evan Rodrigues and Jimmy Vesey and Colin Miller and Connor Sheary and Jake McCabe and Marco Scandella, etc., in your line-up. And, we may soon find out that teams that are headed to the playoffs see some value in adding an Okposo, Girgensens, E. Johnson or Olofsson (and maybe not).

No, this isn't a lament for us losing any of these players or a preemptive lament for us losing anyone on the current team. It is just that it has become an annual tradition for Sabre fans to dump on players only to see them go on to function perfectly well and in some cases thrive in appropriate roles in different environments.

While I agree with you, I think a lot of those players (minus Montour of course) are in a much lesser role than they were here.

 

[Archie Lee]

Roy, Carrier and Kolesar were acquired not developed. Compher was acquired but played a second line role for a good mportion of his time in Co. the Tampa players were non-first round picks that filled out a star studded line up. The experiment with Krebs is give him better players he will become a top 6 guy. That is not happening. So your examples buttress the point that you can acquire the bottom guys needed. The Tampa example ignores the lack of top end talent to be leaned on to get to the playoffs and ultimately be successful. Krebs isn’t going to be the next MacKinnon, he might be a serviceable 3/4 line winger. But right now he can’t bring any experience or knowledge about winning in the NHL because he hasn’t.

Your initial comment that I responded to was: "No doubt [all teams need bottom 6 players]. But you do not develop them. You acquire league vets who know their role and and fulfill it, often at a lower tier salary."

None of the players I referenced was acquired as an established league vet who knew their role and how to fulfill it. They were acquired as young and unestablished players who were developed into those roles by the Vegas, Colorado and Tampa respectively. JT Compher was not a 2nd line centre on a team with Mackinnon and Kadri.

Note also that these are just the cup winning teams. You will find similar good bottom 6 players developed internally on many contending teams.

It's ok that you don't like Krebs and that you would gladly see him moved.

 

[Beerz]

I'll leave you to your opinion on Krebs.

I don't think the point on Montour, though, is that we gave up on a perennial Norris candidate. The point is that when Montour was here, he wasn't very good and many fans had concluded you can't win with stiffs like him in the line-up. Turns out though, you can win and make the playoffs and sometimes make deep playoff runs with players like Montour and Evan Rodrigues and Jimmy Vesey and Colin Miller and Connor Sheary and Jake McCabe and Marco Scandella, etc., in your line-up. And, we may soon find out that teams that are headed to the playoffs see some value in adding an Okposo, Girgensens, E. Johnson or Olofsson (and maybe not).

No, this isn't a lament for us losing any of these players or a preemptive lament for us losing anyone on the current team. It is just that it has become an annual tradition for Sabre fans to dump on players only to see them go on to function perfectly well and in some cases thrive in appropriate roles in different environments.

In regards to Montour.. I agree he was not utilized very well here..and his play showed that. I wasn't looking to get rid of him.. but he was a UFA ...does anyone really believe he was going to re-sign here?

As for the others.. the only one I'm disappointed left is Jake McCabe.. but it was time for him to go I think.

Burn a year of his contract and eligibility on a crap team because you couldn't plan ahead. Just mindless player development. Rivet/Peters have been calling this out for months. They are morons mostly, but so many competitors in Buffalo in the media just seem scared to call out the idiocy of this team.



This will happen. I agree. He won't be 100 point guy but he will be a solid 60 or 70 point guy and you will get a wave of excuses that he would have never done that in Buffalo. Bookmark my comments too.

Solid 60 or 70 point guy eh? ... I am definitely bookmarking this one lol

 

[Tatanka]

Your initial comment that I responded to was: "No doubt [all teams need bottom 6 players]. But you do not develop them. You acquire league vets who know their role and and fulfill it, often at a lower tier salary."

None of the players I referenced was acquired as an established league vet who knew their role and how to fulfill it. They were acquired as young and unestablished players who were developed into those roles by the Vegas, Colorado and Tampa respectively. JT Compher was not a 2nd line centre on a team with Mackinnon and Kadri.

Note also that these are just the cup winning teams. You will find similar good bottom 6 players developed internally on many contending teams.

It's ok that you don't like Krebs and that you would gladly see him moved.

You are equating being given a job to development. Kolesar spent a year in jr post draft and 3 years in the AHL and was acquired to fill a bottom six role. Vegas gave him a job. They identified what they wanted and acquired it. That is not development. The Sabres acquired Krebs as an add in a trade. I believe they thought he had a high ceiling. That has not been demonstrated to date. They are not developing him to be a bottom six player. They still believe he can hit the higher ceiling. I don’t. I do not dislike Krebs as he seems like a likeable person. I think his value as a player is a fungible commodity that is easily substituted for.

 

[Archie Lee]

[The Sabres] still believe [Krebs] can hit the higher ceiling. I don’t.

The above is your view and you're certainly entitled to it. Krebs has certainly not been so incredibly good that it is ridiculous that fans aren't sold on him having a future with the team.

Respectfully, I think everything else you are saying on this amounts to "moving the bar". Good teams develop good bottom 6 players. They really do. They do it all the time. Sometimes they do it in the minors and sometimes at the NHL level. Sometimes they do it with a player who was a long-shot to make the NHL and sometimes with players who were once considered top prospects. Sometimes those players keep developing and become top-6 players.

The Sabres are trying to develop Krebs into a good all around bottom to middle six player, which does not mean that he would be forever limited to a bottom 6 role. Colorado developed Compher (2nd rd pick acquired in O'Reilly deal), the Rangers developed Filip Chytil (1st rd pick), the Bruins Trent Frederic (1st rd pick), the Oilers are developing Ryan McLeod and Dylan Holloway (1st rd picks), NJ Dawson Mercer (1st rd pick), Carolina Jack Drury (2nd rd pick), LA Alex Turcotte, Washingtom Connor McMichael (1st rd pick). I could go on.

I understand that you don't think the juice is worth the squeeze with Krebs, but there is no need to create a false narrative that the Sabres are trying to do something with him that good teams don't do. Good teams develop good players who play roles throughout the line-up. They do.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

For anyone following Owen Tippet's journey, does anyone see a similar trajectory possible for Krebs? They had a lot of similarities at the same ages. Tippet is now a 100% complete, 2-way beast, but it took him a really long time to get there after going at a similar spot in the draft.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

In regards to Montour.. I agree he was not utilized very well here..and his play showed that. I wasn't looking to get rid of him.. but he was a UFA ...does anyone really believe he was going to re-sign here?

As for the others.. the only one I'm disappointed left is Jake McCabe.. but it was time for him to go I think.



Solid 60 or 70 point guy eh? ... I am definitely bookmarking this one lol

On a real team (not another crap box like Columbus but a playoff team), he will peak at a 60-point or close to 70 levels. I really hope Vegas doesn't get him back.

Krebs is a passer and makes great setups. You have to play him with a decent shooter. Not Girgensons, Okposo or Robinson. He made a sublime pass to Peterka the other night.

I get why people hated him early. He played almost no D, didn't grind at all, stupid plays all over the place. Teaching him to play some D in grinder minutes wasn't a bad idea, but at some point, you release the kid from jail.

But Granato is stubborn as sh*t. Not idiot Krueger stubborn enough to leave Skinner on a 4th line forever but stubborn to the point that he sticks with the same crappy PP, love for Erik Johnson over Ryan, Okposo on PP.

Finally, under insane pressure because Buffalo sucks, Krebs got linemates that last two games. And sorry, he was good. Yeah, a puck deflected off him ugly, but I loved the plays he was making with Benson and Peterka.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I'll leave you to your opinion on Krebs.

I don't think the point on Montour, though, is that we gave up on a perennial Norris candidate. The point is that when Montour was here, he wasn't very good and many fans had concluded you can't win with stiffs like him in the line-up. Turns out though, you can win and make the playoffs and sometimes make deep playoff runs with players like Montour and Evan Rodrigues and Jimmy Vesey and Colin Miller and Connor Sheary and Jake McCabe and Marco Scandella, etc., in your line-up. And, we may soon find out that teams that are headed to the playoffs see some value in adding an Okposo, Girgensens, E. Johnson or Olofsson (and maybe not).

No, this isn't a lament for us losing any of these players or a preemptive lament for us losing anyone on the current team. It is just that it has become an annual tradition for Sabre fans to dump on players only to see them go on to function perfectly well and in some cases thrive in appropriate roles in different environments.

Colin Miller was also played on the wrong side. We have not had a real coach in Buffalo since Bylsma, and he wasn't that great. Assistant coaches with no experience were promoted to head coach, and guys running PP with zero coaching experience. Ralph Krueger, an unemployed soccer president, was brought in as royalty at three years at $3.75 M. The management in Buffalo (I think it is Pegula) is so so dumb. You reup Granato to two years at $2 M before actually did much of anything. I'm for firing Granato but I'm almost scored of what could come next.

 

[Beerz]

On a real team (not another crap box like Columbus but a playoff team), he will peak at a 60-point or close to 70 levels. I really hope Vegas doesn't get him back.

Krebs is a passer and makes great setups. You have to play him with a decent shooter. Not Girgensons, Okposo or Robinson. He made a sublime pass to Peterka the other night.

I get why people hated him early. He played almost no D, didn't grind at all, stupid plays all over the place. Teaching him to play some D in grinder minutes wasn't a bad idea, but at some point, you release the kid from jail.

But Granato is stubborn as sh*t. Not idiot Krueger stubborn enough to leave Skinner on a 4th line forever but stubborn to the point that he sticks with the same crappy PP, love for Erik Johnson over Ryan, Okposo on PP.

Finally, under insane pressure because Buffalo sucks, Krebs got linemates that last two games. And sorry, he was good. Yeah, a puck deflected off him ugly, but I loved the plays he was making with Benson and Peterka.

I haven't seen this good with Peterka and Benson .. but to each their own.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I haven't seen this good with Peterka and Benson .. but to each their own.

I've seen 2 immature and low hockey IQ players make stupid plays. The difference being that Peterka does his at full throttle so appears much better. Krebs moves slower and has been trying to outTage Tage with dangles when both of them could make simpler, more effective plays by moving the puck instead of being selfish

 

[Chainshot]

For anyone following Owen Tippet's journey, does anyone see a similar trajectory possible for Krebs? They had a lot of similarities at the same ages. Tippet is now a 100% complete, 2-way beast, but it took him a really long time to get there after going at a similar spot in the draft.

He was close to waiver material and has spent some years under demands of a defense-first, old school coach. Is Krebs getting that in Buffalo?

 

[Tatanka]

He was close to waiver material and has spent some years under demands of a defense-first, old school coach. Is Krebs getting that in Buffalo?

Tippett is an inch taller 20 lbs heavier and plays on the wing. He isn’t in the pivot at least from my limited vieiwing.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

He was close to waiver material and has spent some years under demands of a defense-first, old school coach. Is Krebs getting that in Buffalo?

I honestly don’t know wtf he’s being taught in buffalo.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Tippett is an inch taller 20 lbs heavier and plays on the wing. He isn’t in the pivot at least from my limited vieiwing.

Well he’s two years younger so ostensibly Krebs could still gain muscle and weight

 

[Chainshot]

I honestly don’t know wtf he’s being taught in buffalo.

Skate fast, don't hit.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Krebs has been all over the ice since he got new linemates.


\

 

[toddkaz]

Krebs kinda reminds me of a young Mittelstadt.

How old was Mitts when he got 9 points in 31 games? 21? 22?

Mittelstadt also needed a lot of time to develop. He wasn't very strong, underdeveloped physically and mentally and took him a while to catch up to the speed of the game.

A lot of fans were ready to trade Mitts for a bag of pucks 2 years ago.

Sometimes it takes a few years for talented prospects who are underdeveloped physically to catch up to the speed of the game. Krebs makes a lot of dumb passes and so did Mittelstadt when he was 21-22. Krebs needs to catch up to the speed of NHL play. Krebs can't think the game fast enough yet and it makes him look like he has a low hockey IQ. It finally clicked for Mittelstadt and I would hate to give up on Krebs before he gets a chance for it to happen for him.