Rumor: Peter Chiarelli is not done?

[PatrikOverAuston]

Roy? You don't even know that the Avs traded that pick? The Sharks drafted Roy

That's part of my point- there's zero comparison between that package and an established 2/3 defenceman like Adam Larsson. Sakic wishes he could have acquired that sort of asset for O'Reilly. Instead, he landed a bunch of scratch tickets.

Yes, Chiarelli managed everything perfectly. Rishaug prepared Oiler fans on twitter beforehand that Hall might be moved, Stauffer played a guessing game with Oiler fans the day before on the radio about the defensman they were getting to get everyone excited, then Stauffer was on the radio post-trade to talk it up. And he's good friends with the Oilers owner. He's a shameless Oiler shill who gets fed his information from the Oilers, nothing more.

...and many agents, including Meehan. Again, like the other guy, you not liking what he has to say doesn't make him wrong. You can wish otherwise, though.

He might therefore have some factual knowledge on things, but his opinions are hilarious. Wasn't it Friedman who basically started laughing on his show when Stauffer said the Hurricanes would have to add to Faulk to get RNH? His opinion is next to valueless.

Right, his opinion means very little- it's the same as any sports guy who tries to drum up talk in the dead of summer. But when he claims something is happening? When he's putting out smoke? He knows. He absolutely knows.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Oh god, he just quoted Adrian Dater.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Considering ROR's contract demands (he eventually got 7.5 AAV, 1 mill less than stamkos), yes he was absolutely a great deal. I would not be surprised when Zadorov becomes as good of a player as Larsson in 2 years. I like Larsson and have since the 2011 draft when I pushed for him over Landy, but man he got overrated fast.

And Grigorenko might win the next seven Harts. However, today, Larsson is a better player then everyone in that deal and by a good margin. Zadorov, for example, would first need to play a complete NHL season with Colorado to even be in the conversation.

LOL Bob Stauffer literally don't know that after a arbitration ruling, there is no trade restrictions. This guy has definitely been brainwashing some of the Oiler fans on this board.

I'm not sure who has been brainwashed when one side is claiming a pile of prospects with zero impact on the Avalanche roster is better than a 25-minute-a-night defenceman, but who am I to say?

 

[Avs44]

That's part of my point- there's zero comparison between that package and an established 2/3 defenceman like Adam Larsson. Sakic wishes he could have acquired that sort of asset for O'Reilly. Instead, he landed a bunch of scratch tickets.

And yet the 5 pieces the Avs got could easily turn out to be better than Larsson, or they could easily be worse. The Avs badly needed depth. And again, I'm not sure what your point is here...Hall was signed long term, O'Reilly was a year from UFA. The returns of each piece are not remotely indicative of the abilities of each GM, the scenario's were not remotely comparable.

...and many agents, including Meehan. Again, like the other guy, you not liking what he has to say doesn't make him wrong. You can wish otherwise, though.

I'm fine with Stauffer putting out facts. Most of what he says isn't fact, it's his opinion of stuff he blatantly makes up. For example, he's been pushing the 'Roy said Barrie is a #5 defensman angle,' yet I challenge you, or anyone else, to find a quote of Roy saying anything close to that.

Right, his opinion means very little- it's the same as any sports guy who tries to drum up talk in the dead of summer. But when he claims something is happening? When he's putting out smoke? He knows. He absolutely knows.

Correction: what he knows comes directly from the Oilers, and what the Oilers want to be said. The smoke he puts out is smoke the Oilers want to exist for their own purposes. I'm not going apply the same level of credibility to anything Stauffer says, ever, compared to some other journalists, when Stauffer's job is practically to be the mouthpiece of one organization. He's a shill who feeds Oiler fans propaganda.

 

[Paralyzer]

And yet the 5 pieces the Avs got could easily turn out to be better than Larsson, or they could easily be worse. The Avs badly needed depth. And again, I'm not sure what your point is here...Hall was signed long term, O'Reilly was a year from UFA. The returns of each piece are not remotely indicative of the abilities of each GM, the scenario's were not remotely comparable.




I'm fine with Stauffer putting out facts. Most of what he says isn't fact, it's his opinion of stuff he blatantly makes up. For example, he's been pushing the 'Roy said Barrie is a #5 defensman angle,' yet I challenge you, or anyone else, to find a quote of Roy saying anything close to that.



Correction: what he knows comes directly from the Oilers, and what the Oilers want to be said. The smoke he puts out is smoke the Oilers want to exist for their own purposes. I'm not going apply the same level of credibility to anything Stauffer says, ever, compared to some other journalists, when Stauffer's job is practically to be the mouthpiece of one organization. He's a shill who feeds Oiler fans propaganda.

Let's be honest (And this goes to Pure as well), don't say ALL Oiler fans on here feed off of Stauffer for his intellect. A LOT of us don't listen to his garbage and a lot of the times he does say some ridiculous things. FOr example, his talk with Friedman was ridiculous when Faulk and RNH were mentioned as a speculative trade proposal and Stauffer blurted out "Carolina would have to ADD to that to get RNH". Even Friedman was laughing at him and saying your over-valuing RNH but he wouldn't listen. I admit, there would be a FEW oiler fans who feed off this garbage, but don't generalize the whole fanbase like this. I take all things Stauffer says with a grain of salt. That's like me saying ALL Isles fans take Arthur Staples word to Gospel and what he says is true.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

And Grigorenko might win the next seven Harts. However, today, Larsson is a better player then everyone in that deal and by a good margin. Zadorov, for example, would first need to play a complete NHL season with Colorado to even be in the conversation.

Zadorov will play in the NHL this season and for the entire year. He is essentially on the same path as Larsson, but obviously he hasn't had the breakout season as Larsson last season. Same level of talent. Larsson 2 years ago also played half the season in the AHL.

I'm not sure who has been brainwashed when one side is claiming a pile of prospects with zero impact on the Avalanche roster is better than a 25-minute-a-night defenceman, but who am I to say?

Oiler fans are hoping Larsson improves his offensive game and become a 30+ point two-way dman. Thats also a maybe. Avs are hoping the ROR package turn into a collection of good NHL contributors. Thats also a maybe.

The collective value Sakic got for ROR is higher, given the situation with ROR's contract and Hall's value.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

And yet the 5 pieces the Avs got could easily turn out to be better than Larsson, or they could easily be worse.

As with all lottery tickets, sure. And that's my point.

The Avs badly needed depth. And again, I'm not sure what your point is here...Hall was signed long term, O'Reilly was a year from UFA. The returns of each piece are not remotely indicative of the abilities of each GM, the scenario's were not remotely comparable.

Sakic had every opportunity to deal O'Reilly at an earlier point (hint: the year before) when his value was higher. Of course it's an indictment of the GM's skill level.

I'm fine with Stauffer putting out facts. Most of what he says isn't fact, it's his opinion of stuff he blatantly makes up.

But when he does drift away from opinion and into direct fact territory, he's got the access at his disposal to know. How do you still disagree with that?

For example, he's been pushing the 'Roy said Barrie is a #5 defensman angle,' yet I challenge you, or anyone else, to find a quote of Roy saying anything close to that.

I've not heard that quote, and with the false narratives being constructed here, I'd like to see it. I genuinely don't know what Stauffer said.

Correction: what he knows comes directly from the Oilers, and what the Oilers want to be said. The smoke he puts out is smoke the Oilers want to exist for their own purposes. I'm not going apply the same level of credibility to anything Stauffer says, ever, compared to some other journalists, when Stauffer's job is practically to be the mouthpiece of one organization.

Except, again, he's not in a silo wherein the Oilers are the only ones who drop him hints and out-right reveals. He has tight relationships with a large number of people, including Barrie's agent. The two go back to when Meehan repped Ryan Smyth.

Again, you can choose to disregard it, but that's up to you. It doesn't lessen Stauffer's credibility or access however much you wish it to be so.

 

[Freudian]

So if Stauffer is this super insider, isn't it a bit stupid to say that Oilers will just be patient and wait until Avs make a bad trade. Isn't it a bit like a super villain telling James Bond his whole secret plan, only for Bond to foil that plan afterwards.

Chances are, Stauffer and Rishaug are on damage control duty here. They know Oilers gave up way too much for Larsson and want to change the story to Chiarelli being the patient GM that will be rewarded for it. You know, like Shero was in the last trade.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Zadorov will play in the NHL this season and for the entire year. He is essentially on the same path as Larsson, but obviously he hasn't had the breakout season as Larsson last season. Same level of talent. Larsson 2 years ago also played half the season in the AHL.

And yet Zadorov has yet to play 25 minutes a night on a top pair. That's a maybe for him. Larsson's done it. His value therefore reflects that.

Oiler fans are hoping Larsson improves his offensive game and become a 30+ point two-way dman. Thats also a maybe. Avs are hoping the ROR package turn into a collection of good NHL contributors. Thats also a maybe.

Larsson doesn't have to be any more than he's already been for Edmonton to get use out of him. Zadorov and the others have to actually play in the NHL for an extended period. Grigorenko is the most "polished" of the assets O'Reilly return, and that's not saying much.

The collective value Sakic got for ROR is higher, given the situation with ROR's contract and Hall's value.

It's really not, but you can continue to insist magic beans > a young 2/3 defenceman. That's your prerogative.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Yes, Chiarelli managed everything perfectly. Rishaug prepared Oiler fans on twitter beforehand that Hall might be moved, Stauffer played a guessing game with Oiler fans the day before on the radio about the defensman they were getting to get everyone excited, then Stauffer was on the radio post-trade to talk it up. And he's good friends with the Oilers owner. He's a shameless Oiler shill who gets fed his information from the Oilers, nothing more.


He might therefore have some factual knowledge on things, but his opinions are hilarious. Wasn't it Friedman who basically started laughing on his show when Stauffer said the Hurricanes would have to add to Faulk to get RNH? His opinion is next to valueless.

Most Oiler fans know all of this already. He is okay for things like letting us know which of our players might be available. But yes, his valuations are awful. That Friedman debate was hilarious.

 

[Pual Statsny]

Sakic had every opportunity to deal O'Reilly at an earlier point (hint: the year before) when his value was higher. Of course it's an indictment of the GM's skill level.

...?

So now we're arguing that the Avs didn't get enough for O'Reilly again? Avs got a hell of a haul. Way more for O'Reilly and his ridiculous demands than Hall got with his sweetheart contract. And I don't think many people think Hall's worse than O'Reilly, do they?

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

So if Stauffer is this super insider, isn't it a bit stupid to say that Oilers will just be patient and wait until Avs make a bad trade. Isn't it a bit like a super villain telling James Bond his whole secret plan, only for Bond to foil that plan afterwards.

Not really. It's what every GM will do with regards to the Barrie situation. They know if Sakic's price doesn't change by the time arbitration is finished, the countdown clock begins and the momentum shifts away from Colorado. It's pretty basic strategy.

Chances are, Stauffer and Rishaug are on damage control duty here. They know Oilers gave up way too much for Larsson and want to change the story to Chiarelli being the patient GM that will be rewarded for it. You know, like Shero was in the last trade.

That's if you still have this misguided belief the Oilers overpaid for Larsson, but in a world where a bona fide 30-goal top line center return Seth Jones months earlier, you had to know the market was and is different than HFBoards thought it was.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If the Oilers were gonna get Barrie for cheap it would've already happened.

Sakic and the Avs want to keep him. If the Oilers want him, they're paying a pretty penny. It's pretty obvious. Quit listening to that yellow journalism that you get up there. Oilers media is the only ones running their mouths on any of it... Yet they probably know the least.

then sign him long-term

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

...?

So now we're arguing that the Avs didn't get enough for O'Reilly again? Avs got a hell of a haul. Way more for O'Reilly and his ridiculous demands than Hall got with his sweetheart contract. And I don't think many people think Hall's worse than O'Reilly, do they?

So you're someone else who believes magic beans > a 25-minute-a-night defenceman under 25? I don't get it, are you okay with the Avs trading Barrie for a package of picks and prospects then? Why haven't I seen that on the Colorado board in my visits there instead of demands for Draisaitl or RNH+?

 

[Avs44]

Not really. It's what every GM will do with regards to the Barrie situation. They know if Sakic's price doesn't change by the time arbitration is finished, the countdown clock begins and the momentum shifts away from Colorado. It's pretty basic strategy.

How? Barrie has three RFA years left, he gets to choose a one or two year deal in arbitration. The Avs can trade Barrie after arbitration, a year from now, two years now, it does not matter. He'll still be Avs property, and whatever contract he gets from arbitration won't take him to UFA.

So you're someone else who believes magic beans > a 25-minute-a-night defenceman under 25? I don't get it, are you okay with the Avs trading Barrie for a package of picks and prospects then? Why haven't I seen that on the Colorado board in my visits there instead of demands for Draisaitl or RNH+?

You don't see the difference? O'Reilly was a year from UFA, it was a very good return in that scenario. The Avs also needed depth. Barrie has three more years of RFA, which means there is no pressure, and the Avs can't lose more high end talent for depth. The situations are not comparable.

Let's be honest (And this goes to Pure as well), don't say ALL Oiler fans on here feed off of Stauffer for his intellect. A LOT of us don't listen to his garbage and a lot of the times he does say some ridiculous things. FOr example, his talk with Friedman was ridiculous when Faulk and RNH were mentioned as a speculative trade proposal and Stauffer blurted out "Carolina would have to ADD to that to get RNH". Even Friedman was laughing at him and saying your over-valuing RNH but he wouldn't listen. I admit, there would be a FEW oiler fans who feed off this garbage, but don't generalize the whole fanbase like this. I take all things Stauffer says with a grain of salt. That's like me saying ALL Isles fans take Arthur Staples word to Gospel and what he says is true.

I should clarify. I was not tarring your entire fanbase with that brush, just some, and it was more a repudiation of Stauffer's complete credibility that certain fans seem to think he has.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

How? Barrie has three RFA years left, he gets to choose a one or two year deal in arbitration. The Avs can trade Barrie after arbitration, a year from now, two years now, it does not matter. He'll still be Avs property, and whatever contract he gets from arbitration won't take him to UFA.

In what way is it advantageous for the Avalanche to allow Barrie to reach UFA? Regardless of whether he signs for one year this season and two after or the other way around, he still hits free agency but doing nothing. That's a win for him, not so much for Colorado.

You don't see the difference? O'Reilly was a year from UFA, it was a very good return in that scenario. The Avs also needed depth. Barrie has three more years of RFA, which means there is no pressure, and the Avs can't lose more high end talent for depth. The situations are not comparable.

No, no, no, if Avs fans are going to INSIST that's fair or above fair market value, I offer the following for Barrie. Forget Draisaitl or RNH even:

To Colorado- Darnell Nurse, Nail Yakupov, Tyler Benson, EDM 2nd '17

That's probably even better than the Zadorov/Grigorenko/Compher offer. You have to take that for Barrie, right?

 

[Paralyzer]

How? Barrie has three RFA years left, he gets to choose a one or two year deal in arbitration. The Avs can trade Barrie after arbitration, a year from now, two years now, it does not matter. He'll still be Avs property, and whatever contract he gets from arbitration won't take him to UFA.




You don't see the difference? O'Reilly was a year from UFA, it was a very good return in that scenario. The Avs also needed depth. Barrie has three more years of RFA, which means there is no pressure, and the Avs can't lose more high end talent for depth. The situations are not comparable.



I should clarify. I was not tarring your entire fanbase with that brush, just some, and it was more a repudiation of Stauffer's complete credibility that certain fans seem to think he has.

Not a problem! I just don't like to be generalize as "Those stupid Oiler fans who post nothing but lies about other organizations and think Stauffer is God"

 

[Freudian]

So you're someone else who believes magic beans > a 25-minute-a-night defenceman under 25? I don't get it, are you okay with the Avs trading Barrie for a package of picks and prospects then? Why haven't I seen that on the Colorado board in my visits there instead of demands for Draisaitl or RNH+?

It's just a personal preference of mine to want my 25 minute a night defensemen to play 25 minutes a night. Adam Larsson had more games where he played under 20 minutes last season than he had games where he played 25 minutes a night. He averaged 22m 30s a night last season.

Completely unrelated, Tyson Barrie averaged 23m 11s a night last year. I guess that makes him a 26 minute a night defender. Imagine what a 26 minute a night 50 point defender would fetch in a trade.

Oops. I forgot that super insider Bob Stauffer claims Roy said Barrie is a #5 defender despite a) Roy actually never saying so and b) no #5 defender gets 23 minutes a night on average. What happened Bob? Got a bit carried away with Denver Post journalists speculating, did we?

 

[Avs44]

In what way is it advantageous for the Avalanche to allow Barrie to reach UFA? Regardless of whether he signs for one year this season and two after or the other way around, he still hits free agency but doing nothing. That's a win for him, not so much for Colorado.

Did you read what I wrote? Barrie gets a one or two year contract in arbitration...then what? He's still an RFA afterwards regardless, not a UFA. The point being that there is no immediate pressure here on the Avs, as you seem to be making out. Even if the Avs can't get a long term deal done, they have a good two years to deal Barrie, because the earliest moment Barrie could become a UFA and force their hand is three years from now. The Avs have time. They can just as easily trade him next off-season as this one.

No, no, no, if Avs fans are going to INSIST that's fair or above fair market value, I offer the following for Barrie. Forget Draisaitl or RNH even:

To Colorado- Darnell Nurse, Nail Yakupov, Tyler Benson, EDM 2nd '17

That's probably even better than the Zadorov/Grigorenko/Compher offer. You have to take that for Barrie, right?

So you don't understand the differences here at all then. You clearly don't understand that needs change or how negotiations work either if that is the simplistic logic you employ.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

And yet Zadorov has yet to play 25 minutes a night on a top pair. That's a maybe for him. Larsson's done it. His value therefore reflects that.

What was Larsson doing 2 years ago?

Larsson doesn't have to be any more than he's already been for Edmonton to get use out of him. Zadorov and the others have to actually play in the NHL for an extended period. Grigorenko is the most "polished" of the assets O'Reilly return, and that's not saying much.

Thats fair, but Larsson doesn't improve, he'll only be a 18 point Dman and that's no where near worth Hall. Zadorov has a lower floor, but he will be a NHL player, he was good enough to play 60 games as a 19 year old, he is already good enough to play. The Avs got the other pieces in order to hedge their bet, while the Oilers didn't. Thats where they didn't get full value, although the main piece was good.

It's really not, but you can continue to insist magic beans > a young 2/3 defenceman. That's your prerogative.

Yup, the Avs made a better value trade for sure, I will continue to insist on that. Turning 1 year of ROR (because the Avs were not going to pay 7.5 AAV for him) for the package they got is easily better than trading their best/2nd best player for a 2/3 dman.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

No, no, no, if Avs fans are going to INSIST that's fair or above fair market value, I offer the following for Barrie. Forget Draisaitl or RNH even:

To Colorado- Darnell Nurse, Nail Yakupov, Tyler Benson, EDM 2nd '17

That's probably even better than the Zadorov/Grigorenko/Compher offer. You have to take that for Barrie, right?

If Barrie had 1 year left before UFA, was demanding 7.5 mill per year, and the Avs somehow also had another RH PMR to replace him, that would be a decent offer. Thats not the current situation.

 

[smackdaddy]

LOL Bob Stauffer literally don't know that after a arbitration ruling, there is no trade restrictions. This guy has definitely been brainwashing some of the Oiler fans on this board.

This isn't American politics. It's hockey. And if you think for an instance that you aren't partial to you own team's bullhorn, think again.

Besides, it's no secret Stauffer is an Oiler hire. Not sure what you're getting at.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

This isn't American politics. It's hockey. And if you think for an instance that you aren't partial to you own team's bullhorn, think again.

Besides, it's no secret Stauffer is an Oiler hire. Not sure what you're getting at.

The Avs media have some big homer. But we don't have anyone like Stauffer. Its one thing to be a homer for your own team, but its another to be condescending towards other teams. I can definitely see some of his influences on some of the worst oiler posters here, while the good ones know the guy is a fool.

 

[dustybreaks]

This isn't American politics. It's hockey. And if you think for an instance that you aren't partial to you own team's bullhorn, think again.

Besides, it's no secret Stauffer is an Oiler hire. Not sure what you're getting at.

He's was saying Stauffer's an idiot.

 

[JLo217]

This isn't American politics. It's hockey. And if you think for an instance that you aren't partial to you own team's bullhorn, think again.

Besides, it's no secret Stauffer is an Oiler hire. Not sure what you're getting at.

A huge reason to why you shouldn't listen to him... He's obviously going to try and get hits and favor the Oilers fan base.