Perezhogin

[Trottier]

What is going through these players' heads?

The same thing (air) that is going through the heads of fans who casually pass off such ridiculous behavior (e.g., "happens in the AHL all the time" ), make excuses for it (e.g., "the other guy made a racist comment" ) , or worse, make light of it. You can find all of the above in this thread or the Habs' board.

Many things are overblown on these boards. And, hockey is a violent sport, but a controlled sport. Yes, some of what goes on in a rink would not be allowed on the street, but that is a specious argument, especially in this case. For Perezhogin's actions are way out of bounds of the rules and regulations of the game itself, not to mention common sense. Not by a little, not a matter of one's perspective, not as it compares to other "incidents."

On its own, it was hideous, incomprehensible and anyone who tries to rationalize it hopefully will never lace up a pair of skates. (Better yet, never leave their home.)

It is said that sports mirrors society. The act itself was inexcusable and serious, and surely will be dealt with as such.

A few of the "fan reactions" to it are beyond pathetic. Mindless.

Damn.....I really liked Perezhogin and he was doing so well in the playoffs. If Gainey doesn't want him I would hope NJ is first in line to get him.

Fortunately, the GM of NJD has much higher standards than that.

 

[The Pucks]

The way I see it Stafford meant to swing at Perezhogins head and grazed him, Perezhogin turned round to swing back and got him in the face not realizing Stafford was on the ice.

Staffords intent was to slash a head.
Perezhogins intent was to slash a body.

Stafford deserves a longer supsension for the intent as he was looking at Perezhogin when he swung his stick.

If I was in Perezhogins skates I would have done exaclty the same thing. It doesnt make it right but if someone tries to injure an opponent and then gets injured themselves, I cannot feel sorry for them.

Watch the replay again, then again, then again, Perezhogin saw he was down, looked right at him, and swung full force. Wether he was aiming for the head or the sholder, he was aiming at another player and had time to react, to swing and to make full contact. He will be getting nailed big time.

Bertuzzi was suspened for the length of time moreso for the injury's inflicted than the actuall action. Perezhogin will be judged by the same man. Bert did not use a weapon, Perezhogin did. He will have a long time to thing about his actions.

 

[The Pucks]

I think people are missing the point. No matter how long Perezhogin is suspended it will not fix the actual problem. One could ban him from ever playing in the AHL/NHL for his actions and use it as an example to the rest of the players, but that simply wouldnt work. Punishing players for injuring another doesnt stop the fact the other player is injured, the league has to get to the root of the problem. In the heat of the moment you dont care about consequences, your adrenaline is rushing and you stand up for yourself.

The slash was easily preventable if the ref did his job. Stafford kept going at Perezhogin, and eventually Perezhogin exploded because the ref wasnt doing anything about it. All the ref had to do was assign a penalty for the two hand slash across Perezhogins leg, or the crosscheck to the face, or the attempt to slash him across the face. But in today's NHL players are forced to stand up for themselves and thats why these incidents happen. Suspending the players doesnt help, the league needs to fix its reffing system and start calling penalties when they happen, whether its regular season, playoffs or 5th OT of game 7.

If the drunk driver had not drank, if the bartender cut him off when he was getting drunk, if the doorman had taken away his keys, the accident would not have happened and the family would not be dead.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Perezhogin reacted, now he has to pay the price. We all have to make decisions, hundreds a day, some we regret, Perezhogin will regret that decion for the rest of his life.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I don't think Vlad is preaching an "Eye for an Eye philosophy." I think he's saying that an "eye for an eye" philosophy is the reality of the game, and because of this, the only way to completely get rid of actions like Perezhogin's is to get rid of the source of their actions. If players get penalties and/or suspensions for mugging other players (like what Stafford clearly did to Perezhogin), the players being mugged will have nothing to retaliate over. However, since referees aren't calling penalties when they occur (like Stafford's crosschecks on Perezhogin), actions like Perezhogin's are bound to occur. Perezhogin oviously should not have acted the way he did and his actions warrant an exceedingly long suspension; however, if the leagues wants to entirely rid the game of such acts, they have no recourse but to call penalties whenever rules are broken (like the mugging Perezhogin received from Stafford). If the leagues aren't going to enforce the rules through officiating, this "eye for an eye" philosophy that obviously rules the sport is never going to leave.

I think Vlad is, in essence, trying to weed the garden that is the NHL by going for the weeds' roots, which may make the garden ugly with bare spots for a while (slow games filled with penalties) but will get rid of the problem (obstruction and initiating offences); while most are just trying to chop the heads off the dandelions (penalizing only retaliations and suspending the Perezhogins and Bertuzzis for months/years/life, but otherwise doing nothing), which will make the garden look nice but have no affect on the problems within it--more dandelions are going to pop up.

If I'm reading Vlad right, he wants the exact same thing that you want.

In essence, you pretty much got it.

I think it has been made abundantly clear in the course of history that if you put fine young persons under extraordinary conditions, you can get fairly explosive reactions.

I've said it in my very first post, a stick is a weapon, and using it as a two-hander is extremely dangerous. Nobody wants to see that in the game.

Perezhogin will and should be punished for his actions. However, hockey has to look at the problem at its roots. I've mentioned Dimitrakos a few nights ago in another thread. The other day he gets a stick in the face. Referees checks for blood. No blood. Two minutes.

Seriously.

I'm sorry, but if you put a stick in my face like that, in an environment where this is considered OK. I'm going to make sure I do too. And I won't miss. I swear, I won't. I will not take much pleasure in doing so, but I will maim you for life without a second thought.

This is the 21st Century. We should be past the point of "survival of the fittest" at such levels. But if we ain't, I'm not going to sit there and take it with a smile.

Try this for a change: Stick to the face (I'm not talking about two handers here. ALL sticks to the face): automatic five minute. And automatic review by the league. And if it shows that the stick to the face was intentional... attempt to injure.

Instead, we don't hear a thing about this. Guys who get hit in the face like Dimitrakos, it happens every game. Nobody cares about it anymore. All people seem to care about is some low-life convulsing because he was too worthless to even get his dirty deed right. Gimme a break.

Why should I care about this guy when there are much mo0re pressing issues? Like, the LARGER picture?

I just want hockey to be a game where guys have fun. I don't mind that it is competitive and I like nothing more than to see a thundering check. Sometimes, things happen. A guy is checked hard, there's an injury to an arm, shoulder, etc.

But the head? The eyes? That kind of stuff? The league needs to crack down on that. And if it doesn't, you'll see more and more irrational and/or impulsive retaliations. Doesn't matter how badly you're punished by the league afterwards. It will still happen over and over again.

Get the level of respect up between players during a normal play sequence and THEN you will see those kind of incidents (which are on the increase) become almost non-existent.

I leave it to people to determine the level of responsibility an individual has. Most folks have debated those questions for decades now. What I do know is that more and more, behaviorists understand that your environment does affect you. It is up to the people in charge to determine what kind of hockey environment they want.

The one they condone right now is one where there is no respect, where you are rewarded for cheating, embellishing and hurting your opponents. It is also one where you learn pretty fast that league justice is a joke.

Right now, hockey is fairly similar to a busy street intersection where the traffic lights are out. This often leads to a spiral of rudeness and pretty quick, civility can take the back doors. It's human nature. There needs to be structure, especially in an ultra-competitive game like this.

 

[Thomas]

If the drunk driver had not drank, if the bartender cut him off when he was getting drunk, if the doorman had taken away his keys, the accident would not have happened and the family would not be dead.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Perezhogin reacted, now he has to pay the price. We all have to make decisions, hundreds a day, some we regret, Perezhogin will regret that decion for the rest of his life.

This is a organized sport, it can be controlled, thats the whole problem. This is the exact same stance the NHL has been taking and thats why Moore was in the hospital, and its why Stafford had to undergo that trauma. There are 10 skaters on the ice, with 2 refs and 2 linesman, its not hard to prevent these sorts of things.

And some of you have to get this through your thick head. We're not saying Perezhogin shouldnt be suspended cause he sure should be, were saying that a life time ban is ridiculous, that Stafford had a role in all this and that the ref has to share part of the blame for closing his eyes. Theres a big difference.

 

[sonnytheman]

Try this for a change: Stick to the face (I'm not talking about two handers here. ALL sticks to the face): automatic five minute. And automatic review by the league. And if it shows that the stick to the face was intentional... attempt to injure.

I would add elbows to that. You know what, ANY hit to the head, including shoulders, should be a major. I remember Pierre McGuire saying during the WJC that hits to the head were penalized in international hockey (when Phaneuf nailed Olesz). It would be good if they made hits like that illegal, just because they can be devastating.

This may sound going overboard, but there's way too many concussions out there, and players will continue to get bigger and faster, and concussions will end even more careers.



This entire post may be off-topic, though.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

This is yet another example of why hockey needs to either A) get rid of this so-called 'CODE' that people like to talk about, or B) let everybody know EXACTLY what the heck the 'CODE' is.

Seems to me you cannot go back to the way hockey was played before helmets, before the European invasion, before an average hockey player that stands about 6-1 and weighs 200 pounds and before the technological advances of the sport.

The notion that in the heat of the battle you should drop BOTH your stick and gloves and even your helmet is nowadays as obsolete as the etzel. In case you haven't noticed, society has changed quite a bit since the Chicago Blackhawks last won the Stanley Cup. Back then, even gang rumbles would usually be resolved with fists and with face-to-face combat. Nowadays, kids brings weapons to school.

This reminds me of an incident in Andrei Nazarov's rookie season (I think it was his rookie year) while with the Sharks. He fought Winnipeg's Stephane Quintal and Nazarov had never dropped the gloves before and was clearly unsure of the situation. Quintal was winning the fight, so Nazarov head-butted 'Q' in the face. When asked later, Nazarov said, "I thought he was trying to kill me!" In other words, what's the code?

Personally, I HATE staged hockey fights, when the two enforcers take off their gloves, fix their hair and skate around for a couple of seconds, hit each other to a pulp in the middle of the ice and then give each other a pat on the back for a job well done. THAT, to me gives hockey a bad name and is why I wouldn't mind seeing fighting eliminated. On the other hand, if all hockey fights were like Iginla-Hatcher, a sub-plot of a continuous one-on-one battle where the star player does not need someone else to fight his own battles, well fighting could stay in the game forever. Alas, that's a pipedream and I think a LOT of it has to do with this infamous 'CODE'.

In my humble opinion, the Bertuzzi incident is worse than the Perezhogin incident, which was worse than the McSorley incident. However, there are several other incidents that were also VERY bad but don't get the same press because it wasn't a stick. Stick = weapon, so that's the big warning sign for everybody. Well, cheap shots are cheap shots, no matter what tactic you use. An elbow pad these days is a weapon. Sticking out your knee on purpose is a weapon. A cross-check can do just as much damage as a baseball swing. Back to Bertuzzi vs. Perezhogin, I think the problem I have with the Bertuzzi incident was the viciousness with which Moore's head was planted into the ice. Bertuzzi has to know that he's the heaviest player in the game and all his weight can do a world of damage to somebody if he forces that person down into the ice face first.

There are similarities in both incidents, however. Moore SHOULD have been suspended for the Naslund hit, IMHO. It was a dangerous hit to a player that was in a vulnerable position and Moore DID have time to use a different course of action. That said, Stafford also deserves a suspension, and a longer one than Moore for sure, because of his actions. Not just the stick swinging, but the rough-house tactics used just prior. Like when your mom tried to break up fights, she'd get mad at you for taunting your sibling, just as much as she got mad at your sibling for punching you in the face...er, hypothetically speaking, of couse

The one constant in all these cases is the porous officiating and disciplinary action handed out. It really is the biggest problem but once again it stems from this infamous 'CODE' that some people understand and others are clueless about.

Perhaps it's time the unwritten rules are actually written, to be studied by each and every prospective hockey player all over the world. That way, we'd have less confusion. A Steve Moore would then either HAVE to fight and LOSE to the player of Vancouver's choosing, or the Canucks would line up Sakic and try to knock him silly in the exact same position as Naslund. Maybe then Nazarov would know what to do, and what NOT to do in a North American hockey fight. Maybe a Mike Ribeiro, all 165 pounds of him, wouldn't have to embellish injury on the ice. Maybe every hockey fight that occurs happens because it really is all about frustration or the boiling point that has been reached...not about putting fannies in seats or the 'entertainment' value of the sport. Maybe now that Don Cherry is apparently leaving HNIC, we may actually have a chance to decipher this complicated 'CODE'.

Bottom line for me...

Perezhogin: 1 year AHL suspension
Bertuzzi: No World Cup, another half/season NHL suspension
Nazarov: A soft, Butch Goring-style helmet.

 

[Bill McNeal]

The whole hockey world will be seeing this, and remember that kid convusling on the ice. Any game Perezhogin plays in the future, he will be remembered for this and have a reputation. I tend to believe any other games Perezhogin plays opposing players will be trying to take his head off. This kid might have just ruined a possible bright NHL career.

I really doubt anybody cares once and IF he makes the NHL. If that were the case, there'd be many guys who would have been hospitalized by now because of their reps.

 

[Trottier]

This is a organized sport, it can be controlled, thats the whole problem. This is the exact same stance the NHL has been taking and thats why Moore was in the hospital, and its why Stafford had to undergo that trauma. There are 10 skaters on the ice, with 2 refs and 2 linesman, its not hard to prevent these sorts of things.

Yes and no. Vlad suggests more stringent enforcement of existing rules and more severe penalties. A fair point to debate. And what you suggest above is not untrue, the sport can be (and is, for the most part) controlled.

However, you suggest that the Moore incident and the Stafford incident "had" to happen because "the NHL" is taking the wrong stance and you also lay blame at the skates of the officials.

Here's the thing though: even if the NHL and its officials would do their job to your satisfaction, there is never going to be a way to "prevent these things" if the player is not responsible. Never.

You can raise the penalties, raise the fines, suspensions, etc. If/when basic respect and common sense is suspended on the ice for but a second, that is all it takes. So, to that end, pointing the finger at officials and the league itself is an easy out.

Too easy, IMO.

This is yet another example of why hockey needs to either A) get rid of this so-called 'CODE' that people like to talk about, or B) let everybody know EXACTLY what the heck the 'CODE' is.

Only thing I know about "the code" is that it always involved settling things with one's fists, not with a swinging stick. Absolutely gutless.

 

[gb701]

I think people are missing the point. No matter how long Perezhogin is suspended it will not fix the actual problem. One could ban him from ever playing in the AHL/NHL for his actions and use it as an example to the rest of the players, but that simply wouldnt work. Punishing players for injuring another doesnt stop the fact the other player is injured, the league has to get to the root of the problem. In the heat of the moment you dont care about consequences, your adrenaline is rushing and you stand up for yourself.

The slash was easily preventable if the ref did his job. Stafford kept going at Perezhogin, and eventually Perezhogin exploded because the ref wasnt doing anything about it. All the ref had to do was assign a penalty for the two hand slash across Perezhogins leg, or the crosscheck to the face, or the attempt to slash him across the face. But in today's NHL players are forced to stand up for themselves and thats why these incidents happen. Suspending the players doesnt help, the league needs to fix its reffing system and start calling penalties when they happen, whether its regular season, playoffs or 5th OT of game 7.

Sorry - for what it is worth, blaming the ref for actions of (young) adults is wrong. One of the lessons we start teaching kids at 2 years of age is that "exploding" is not acceptable. You do it in a bar, you get arrested. You do it in school - you get kicked out. You do it on the job - you get fired. This is not complicated.

As someone said, most players (the vast majority) at every level of hockey know this. They either fight (which is still acceptable), or the "enforcer" steps up, or they take a cheap shot to show they're pissed. But they don't swing the sticks in anger.

And - you would be surprised how quickly suspensions that either prevent a kid from becoming a millionaire, or that stop a kid already earning millions from earning his pay, would result in radical changes in behavior.

And...if nothing else we would weed out the ones who can't control themselves. Not a bad thing for the game. Like I said earlier, it is not like there is any shortage of good players waiting for a chance.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Just curious what all you people would have done in Perezhogin's situation..

A guy takes a swing at your head, barely misses by skimming the top of your helmet, you have about half a second to do something. What do you do?

I swing, baby!

I'm impulsive. I also value my life above that of a stranger I compete again. Just because someone MISSED me doesn't mean I'd say "oh, it's ok! No harm done my friend!".

In the heat of the moment, I would swing back for sure.

But I'll tell you what for sure. I'd much prefer that nobody takes swings at me or at my teammates. Then, you can bet your ass I would also make sure I do not harm opponents.

In an environment where highsticking and boarding and all that crap is alright, it's unfortunately every man for himself. Especially since linesmen and referees break the fights the minute they start. I've said it often, you can't even give a guy a good HONEST beating in this league. People say players should fight... how many times to we see a fight where someone gets what he actually deserves? It almost doesn't happen. In the 70s, if you messed with someone, there were fights and you got out of there bloodied. The message came across. Today, they wrestle a little bit, throw a few punches but the minute the fight is uneven, the officials break it. So no, you cannot do yourself justice in a fight.

That's not even taking into account you certainly cannot do yourself justice if the other guy is 4 inches and 30 pounds heavier and you're a thinny skilled guy. It all boils down to the rules, the referees, the league offices. They are the only one who will put a stop to violence in hockey because right now, we are spiraling out of control toward an ever-increasing level of violence.

 

[coolio123]

I really doubt anybody cares once and IF he makes the NHL. If that were the case, there'd be many guys who would have been hospitalized by now because of their reps.

Name some of those other players? These other players might have been able to defend themselves when they got to the NHL, but Perezhogin is more of a finess player, and I don't see him trying to defend himself. After he brutaly slashed Stafford, other Cleveland players came to fight Perezhogin, he just turlted.
Also, in this day and age, media is king, and this video will be seen all across the world. Ever AHL player will see this, and want to beat the sh!t out of this guy for doing such a thing.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Assuming this went to trial;what if Perez pleads self defence? He tells the judge he's not sure where he agreed to have his head swung at by a hockey stick. With no one there to protect him he felt he had to take it upon himself albeit in a manner he would not have chosen had he more time to think.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I would add elbows to that. You know what, ANY hit to the head, including shoulders, should be a major. I remember Pierre McGuire saying during the WJC that hits to the head were penalized in international hockey (when Phaneuf nailed Olesz). It would be good if they made hits like that illegal, just because they can be devastating.

This may sound going overboard, but there's way too many concussions out there, and players will continue to get bigger and faster, and concussions will end even more careers.



This entire post may be off-topic, though.

No. You are right and it IS on-topic. Because it is part of what makes hockey the insane environment it has become. I also agree on a zero tolerance policy regarding hits to the head.

I also agree shoulders can do nasty damage.

 

[sonnytheman]

Sorry - for what it is worth, blaming the ref for actions of (young) adults is wrong. One of the lessons we start teaching kids at 2 years of age is that "exploding" is not acceptable. You do it in a bar, you get arrested.
.

Well, for one thing, if a guy starts picking on me at a bar, I fight back. And do you know why this doesn't happen that much? Cus there's bouncers in bars, and they regulate things. Refs = bouncers, if bouncers don't do their jobs, you can bet there would be a hell of a lot of barfights going on.

I'm not really refuting everything you say, I guess I just don't agree with this one analogy.

 

[Crossbar]

I agree with Vlad that Stafford "had it coming" to him for his attempted miss at Perezhogin's head as I also thought when the Bertuzzi incident occured that Moore had it coming to him for what he did to Naslund. Was it the right thing to do? Absolutely not. Who's to blame? The League for not coming up with much more strict rules/severe punishments and enforcing it for everyone whether you're just a simple Call-up who gets 3 minutes of ice time a game or The Star of the league.

In this instance can't say I blame the ref for not being able to stop it in time because it all happened so fast, regardless of what took place prior behind the net (didn't see what happened but i'll take your word that Stafford's crosscheck was dirty) the incident was a direct 'Cause (Stafford's attempted miss) and Effect' (Perezhogin's 2-handed chop). This could also be blamed on the hockey fundamentals that coaches are teaching kids today such as making the opposition "pay the price" when they decide to go in front of your team's own net and vise versa.

My 2 cents? When a player gets intentionally injured the other player should be gone for as long as the other is out for PLUS when that player becomes medically cleared to be able to play again then thats when the suspension for the punishment begins, and if the player has a "history" of doing such actions it should equal out into an automatic ban (2 strikes and you're out IMO). In this case I think both guys should be gone for the remaining playoffs and all of next season without pay (sorry but just because Stafford's stick didn't connect doesn't excuse him). If you want to stop these actions from occuring again the punishments must become more severe. If I were in Perezhogin's place I would not have been satisfied with a fight (is he even a decent fighter?) to settle things when his career could have been in complete jeopardy and Perezhogin had complete control of his stick so what he did is undefendable, let both guys learn their lesson and if they repeat it again then we'll start talking about banning for life.

 

[Thomas]

Yes and no. Vlad suggests more stringent enforcement of existing rules and more severe penalties. A fair point to debate. And what you suggest above is not untrue, the sport can be (and is, for the most part) controlled.

However, you suggest that the Moore incident and the Stafford incident "had" to happen because "the NHL" is taking the wrong stance and you also lay blame at the skates of the officials.

Here's the thing though: even if the NHL and its officials would do their job to your satisfaction, there is never going to be a way to "prevent these things" if the player is not responsible. Never.

You can raise the penalties, raise the fines, suspensions, etc. If/when basic respect and common sense is suspended on the ice for but a second, that is all it takes. So, to that end, pointing the finger at officials and the league itself is an easy out.

Too easy, IMO.

I never said they "had" to happen, im saying the way the league is currently being run doesnt stop players from injuring each other. Everybody knew Bertuzzi would go after Moore, it was expected from him to a certain extent. He chased him around the ice and the refs didnt do anything about it.

Yes poitning at the refs is an easy way out, but they are the ones that can prevent these sorts of incidents (though not all I admit). If Langdon had called one of the 3 penalties he could have handed to Stafford it would have been avoided. If they had done something about Bertuzzi chasing Moore it wouldnt have happened.

I agree it will never completely end, but if the refs do what is expected of them, or what should be expected from them, it would cut down on a lot of these incidents.

 

[Bill McNeal]

Name some of those other players? These other players might have been able to defend themselves when they got to the NHL, but Perezhogin is more of a finess player, and I don't see him trying to defend himself. After he brutaly slashed Stafford, other Cleveland players came to fight Perezhogin, he just turlted.
Also, in this day and age, media is king, and this video will be seen all across the world. Ever AHL player will see this, and want to beat the sh!t out of this guy for doing such a thing.

Taking examples of other heinous acts from the past:

Bobby Clarke breaking Kharlamov's ankle. Granted, it was in international play, but he survived in the league.
Johnsson punching Beukeboom, Johnsson kept playing.
Was watching TSN, and I saw a brutal forearm by Chelios when he played for the Habs, forget who it was against.

There's numerous others. Fact of the matter is, the only time you're going to have a bunch of players on your ass is when you really piss off a team (like Claude Lemieux did to the Wings) or if you piss of a specific player. Otherwise, I can't think of any situation where a whole league decided "This guy is despicable, let's kill him every shift."

Only way I see that happening is if the guy's a pedophile or a wife beater, but then he'd be kicked out of the league.

 

[Thomas]

Sorry - for what it is worth, blaming the ref for actions of (young) adults is wrong. One of the lessons we start teaching kids at 2 years of age is that "exploding" is not acceptable. You do it in a bar, you get arrested. You do it in school - you get kicked out. You do it on the job - you get fired. This is not complicated.

As someone said, most players (the vast majority) at every level of hockey know this. They either fight (which is still acceptable), or the "enforcer" steps up, or they take a cheap shot to show they're pissed. But they don't swing the sticks in anger.

And - you would be surprised how quickly suspensions that either prevent a kid from becoming a millionaire, or that stop a kid already earning millions from earning his pay, would result in radical changes in behavior.

And...if nothing else we would weed out the ones who can't control themselves. Not a bad thing for the game. Like I said earlier, it is not like there is any shortage of good players waiting for a chance.

Again, I repeat myself for the umpteenth time, Perezhogin SHOULD be suspended.

But why should a player have to fight to ensure his own protection, the refs are there to police the game, not the players. Perezhogin isnt a fighter, he wont stand up for himself by taking on a bigger more physical player than himself, it would be pointless.

With the amount of goons in the NHL, there is a shortage of talented players, and thats what Perezhogin is. I pay to watch players like him, not to watch a bunch of idiots fighting each other, its hockey, not boxing.

 

[coolio123]

Taking examples of other heinous acts from the past:

Bobby Clarke breaking Kharlamov's ankle. Granted, it was in international play, but he survived in the league.
Johnsson punching Beukeboom, Johnsson kept playing.
Was watching TSN, and I saw a brutal forearm by Chelios when he played for the Habs, forget who it was against.

There's numerous others. Fact of the matter is, the only time you're going to have a bunch of players on your ass is when you really piss off a team (like Claude Lemieux did to the Wings) or if you piss of a specific player. Otherwise, I can't think of any situation where a whole league decided "This guy is despicable, let's kill him every shift."

Only way I see that happening is if the guy's a pedophile or a wife beater, but then he'd be kicked out of the league.

Bobby Clarke-Playing against the Russians when the big USSR vs. Canada thing was going on, with a league made up of almost all Canadians. I bet a lot of Canadian NHL players would be happy to see a Russian get injured at that time.

Johnsson-I remember the incident but not really the player, but wasn't Johnsson more of a tough guy, therefore he could protect himself?

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Vlad, after reading you explain yourself (well, I might add), I can see where you're coming from and that I may have somewhat taken what you said out of context. However, I don't believe in an eye for an eye, and I don't like how it's worded "he had it coming", but whatever, we may have to agree to disagree.

I'd take this a step further and just start calling penalties if your stick is on a player period. Where in the rulebook does it allow you to use your stick to impede someone as defense?

Now, drawing this over to clutch and grab IS off topic, but I feel this is another of the huge things wrong with the game. I don't know if any of you have ever seen The Red Green Show, I believe it might be Canadian, not sure. It's on our Public Broadcasting Station here in Pittsburgh. At the end, Red Green always says, "You keep your stick on the ice."

Plain and simple, that's what you should be doing in hockey. Because incidents can occur, and do often, where you aren't even going at the guy at all. You're just trying to impede him with your stick -- which, really isn't clearly defined and isn't called -- and you end up cutting the guy's face on accident.

Just make the players keep their sticks on the ice. There's no reason that a stick shouldn't be on the ice unless you are trying to bat down a puck that's a foot or so in the air (I'm not trying to say keep them on the ice all game, obviously they will be a little bit above the ice usually when you aren't possessing the puck or recieving a pass).

And when you make these changes, as long as you're clear to the refs on what should happen, the players will adapt to the change, and hopefully incidents like this will not happen any more. However, this one is slightly different because it didn't have anything to do with gameplay, and was really a decided choiced to use the stick as a weapon... but in theory high sticking injuries and overall crappy gameplay would decrease a lot if "You keep your stick on the ice" was a rule.

My slightly off topic 2 cents.

 

[Bill McNeal]

Bobby Clarke-Playing against the Russians when the big USSR vs. Canada thing was going on, with a league made up of almost all Canadians. I bet a lot of Canadian NHL players would be happy to see a Russian get injured at that time.

Johnsson-I remember the incident but not really the player, but wasn't Johnsson more of a tough guy, therefore he could protect himself?

The examples I did come up with were of tough guys, so I concede that point.

But I still believe that players really aren't affected much by this. Maybe back in the olden days, when rivalries meant something and players hated each other. But now with 30 teams, and sometimes you don't even face a team all year, there is no REAL hate, like the olden days. But that's another topic altogether

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on whether Perezhogin's rep will follow him to the big leagues.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

And where did I defend Stafford's action? What Stafford did was wrong too, but it doesn't mean he deserved to be hit.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel that no one deserves to have their face bashed with someone else's stick.

My favorite scene from the movie Unforgiven. Taken as a quote from a sports page:

In Clint Eastwood’s film Unforgiven, William Munny is standing over a dying Little Bill Daggett, the sadistic lawman played by Gene Hackman. Munny aims his shotgun at Daggett’s face and the lawman stares up and says, weakly, “I don’t deserve this.â€

Munny, his face bleeding and unshaven, doesn’t flinch.

“Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.â€

Munny then shoots Daggett in the face.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Vlad, after reading you explain yourself (well, I might add), I can see where you're coming from and that I may have somewhat taken what you said out of context. However, I don't believe in an eye for an eye, and I don't like how it's worded "he had it coming", but whatever, we may have to agree to disagree.

Doesn't really matter. What matters is that we would both agree that players should have the ability to play this game and not have their life in danger.

 

[Crosbyfan]

My favorite scene from the movie Unforgiven. Taken as a quote from a sports page:

In Clint Eastwood’s film Unforgiven, William Munny is standing over a dying Little Bill Daggett, the sadistic lawman played by Gene Hackman. Munny aims his shotgun at Daggett’s face and the lawman stares up and says, weakly, “I don’t deserve this.”

Munny, his face bleeding and unshaven, doesn’t flinch.

“Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.”

Munny then shoots Daggett in the face.

My mule thinks you're laughing at him.