Penguins reduce their roster by 6 players

[Speaking Moistly]

Honestly, they'd never tempt that kind of reaction. They'd never do it, even if they had some stupid reason to justify it, they've spent time building an image up and the backlash wouldn't be pretty. Never mind that he's the 2nd best defenseman on the team, because they've done enough stupid **** to not get the benefit of the doubt there.

Maatta actually in the AHL? It won't happen if it's not conditioning or a severe drop in play. Maybe it would be better for him long term after two shoulder surgeries so close together and so much time off, but it won't happen.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It doesn't even make sense to send him to the AHL for conditioning, if that's what it's about. An out of shape Maatta is still better than everyone else on the blueline not named Letang.

It's one thing to say "He's out of shape and could hurt our ability to win games." It's another thing entirely to think he's so out of shape that he's a worse option than Scuderi, or Lovejoy getting more TOI.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

It doesn't even make sense to send him to the AHL for conditioning, if that's what it's about. An out of shape Maatta is still better than everyone else on the blueline not named Letang.

It's one thing to say "He's out of shape and could hurt our ability to win games." It's another thing entirely to think he's so out of shape that he's a worse option than Scuderi, or Lovejoy getting more TOI.

Yeah, but then you get into a conditioning stint to help protect against another injury. I'd be surprised if they even did it for a conditioning stint, though, not unless he misses like twenty games for something and they have a light enough schedule to do it.

This is a depressing topic.

 

[Headshot77]

Well, according to General Fanager, we now have exactly $7,917 in cap space. I think that can assure everyone that any moves that the organization has made in the past 24 hours or so is to maximize that juicy LTIR cap relief. I'm not worried about Maatta in the AHL one bit.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We have to find a way to dump Kunitz and Scuderi this season. The sooner the better.

We have young guys who are better options for a fraction of the cost, and especially in Kunitz's situation, we have Perron as a long-term, better solution.

 

[Snowsii]

I don't speak/read Finnish, but I'm assuming some Finnish paper saw he got sent down and inferred that he'd start the season in the AHL.

I do not believe that to be the case. I think we're pinching pennies, because of how tight against the cap we are (*ahem*Kunitz/Scuderi/Dupuis/THANKSHERO*ahem*).

I think the Finnish media, got it from penquins page..http://penguins.nhl.com/club/m_news.htm?id=781947

 

[Freeptop]

BBC Sports has an "NHL's Latest " link . Look for yourself. And Iceland is beautiful. Beats Cleveland.

On the one hand, it isn't difficult to beat Cleveland. On the other hand, I have been to Iceland, and it is beautiful, so you should pick a different comparison city

I will note that the "NHL's Latest" link on the BBC's hockey page just links to www.nhl.com, though...

 

[madinsomniac]

ESPN: and I quote.

The Pens made the move in order to get forward Oskar Sundqvist up with the parent club. Just 21 years old, Maatta has already experienced multiple shoulder injuries and dealt with a cancerous tumor in his thyroid last year. Hopefully the Finn can finally stay healthy as he comes with plenty of upside as a big-bodied blueliner who works well on both ends of the ice.

Yes and with Sundqvist's contract they are right up against the cap... once they LTIR Fehr (and maybe Duper now too) they will recall the Finnish wonderkid. Make little mistake on that

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

ESPN: and I quote.

The Pens made the move in order to get forward Oskar Sundqvist up with the parent club. Just 21 years old, Maatta has already experienced multiple shoulder injuries and dealt with a cancerous tumor in his thyroid last year. Hopefully the Finn can finally stay healthy as he comes with plenty of upside as a big-bodied blueliner who works well on both ends of the ice.

That's ESPN and not some blog?

 

[Wolf Without a Howl]

I think the Finnish media, got it from penquins page..http://penguins.nhl.com/club/m_news.htm?id=781947

Yes Maatta was technically assigned to the AHL, but it's only for cap purposes. He will be recalled before the first game.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

He'll be in Dallas Thursday. Why is this still a discussion?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yes and with Sundqvist's contract they are right up against the cap... once they LTIR Fehr (and maybe Duper now too) they will recall the Finnish wonderkid. Make little mistake on that

Dupuis should go on LTIR, 24 days and 10 games is the minimum required. The tenth game will be on October 29th and 4 weeks from now is November 3rd.

 

[radapex]

Dupuis should go on LTIR, 24 days and 10 games is the minimum required. The tenth game will be on October 29th and 4 weeks from now is November 3rd.

It's only beneficial if you actually use the cap space. General Fanager has the Pens cap hit at $71,392,083, leaving them with $7,917 in cap space. Putting both Fehr (a given) and Dupuis on LTIR will give them an artificial ceiling of $77,142,083. They'll be over the cap so they won't accrue cap space, which means it's really only beneficial if they're actually going to use the cap space. Plus, keep in mind, that they then have to clear that cap space to bring them back off LTIR.

 

[tom_servo]

That's ESPN and not some blog?

It's the fantasy hockey news capsule.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I understand that the Maatta situation is just cap space maneuvering, but in general they wouldn't even have to do these kinds of salary cap gymnastics to eek out every penny if they would have just dumped Kunitz and Scuderi this summer.

It's like whenever the most glaringly obvious solution to a problem presents itself, the Pens organization ignores it and goes looking for more complicated solutions.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I understand that the Maatta situation is just cap space maneuvering, but in general they wouldn't even have to do these kinds of salary cap gymnastics to eek out every penny if they would have just dumped Kunitz and Scuderi this summer.

It's like whenever the most glaringly obvious solution to a problem presents itself, the Pens organization ignores it and goes looking for more complicated solutions.

I'm sure they've tried to move them, especially Scuderi. Kunitz, I don't know how hard they've shopped him, but I've seen IC allude to a few trade scenarios involving Kunitz that either fell through or the team backed out of, and I believe IC.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm sure they've tried to move them, especially Scuderi. Kunitz, I don't know how hard they've shopped him, but I've seen IC allude to a few trade scenarios involving Kunitz that either fell through or the team backed out of, and I believe IC.

But do they see them as cap dumps? Or are they approaching trades with the thought process that Kunitz and Scuderi (this applies more so to Scuderi) still have value, and aren't willing to just take whatever to get them off the books?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

But do they see them as cap dumps? Or are they approaching trades with the thought process that Kunitz and Scuderi (this applies more so to Scuderi) still have value, and aren't willing to just take whatever to get them off the books?

I think they very much see Scuderi as a cap dump. Problem is that I don't think anyone wants him, and he's got a limited number of places he'd go. Finding a match is probably impossible.

On the other hand, I do not believe they see Kunitz as anything short of an integral part of their Cup aspirations, and an irreplaceable cog in that top line.

Regardless of how they feel or value the two, they're both useless to this team. Kunitz is about the 4th candidate in line for top-6 LW duty (behind Perron, Plotnikov, Bennett, and Dupuis), and Scuderi would be lucky to find a spot as a reserve d-man on a beer league team.

 

[cygnus47]

It's only beneficial if you actually use the cap space. General Fanager has the Pens cap hit at $71,392,083, leaving them with $7,917 in cap space. Putting both Fehr (a given) and Dupuis on LTIR will give them an artificial ceiling of $77,142,083. They'll be over the cap so they won't accrue cap space, which means it's really only beneficial if they're actually going to use the cap space. Plus, keep in mind, that they then have to clear that cap space to bring them back off LTIR.

If all you have to do is submit a couple letters in order to get yourself a temporary $6M cap buffer you do it, even if you don't need it.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

I understand that the Maatta situation is just cap space maneuvering, but in general they wouldn't even have to do these kinds of salary cap gymnastics to eek out every penny if they would have just dumped Kunitz and Scuderi this summer.

It's like whenever the most glaringly obvious solution to a problem presents itself, the Pens organization ignores it and goes looking for more complicated solutions.

They would do it even if they had managed to dump Scuderi and company. It gives you an extra cushion and all it takes is some paperwork. It would be stupid to not pursue, even if you never plan to use this extra cap space.
Trying to infer something from this standard procedure is pointless.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

They would do it even if they had managed to dump Scuderi and company. It gives you an extra cushion and all it takes is some paperwork. It would be stupid to not pursue, even if you never plan to use this extra cap space.
Trying to infer something from this standard procedure is pointless.

Out of genuine curiosity, what other teams are doing it if it's "standard procedure"? I know the Leafs sent Harrington down likely for cap reasons until they can put Horton on LTIR, but I can't think of any team that's sent down a "star"/established player like Maatta.

 

[Woodrow]

Out of genuine curiosity, what other teams are doing it if it's "standard procedure"? I know the Leafs sent Harrington down likely for cap reasons until they can put Horton on LTIR, but I can't think of any team that's sent down a "star"/established player like Maatta.

I don't know what others teams have done this but isn't Maata the only guy the Penguins could send down who is waiver exempt?

 

[Maldon]

Out of genuine curiosity, what other teams are doing it if it's "standard procedure"? I know the Leafs sent Harrington down likely for cap reasons until they can put Horton on LTIR, but I can't think of any team that's sent down a "star"/established player like Maatta.

To do what the Penguins are doing, teams need to

A) be against the cap (so almost much every contender, plus teams with bad cap situations (which most contenders also have))

B) have injured players they can place on LTIR

C) have players they can demote easily to maximize the LTIR relief

As far as I know, at least Toronto, Chicago, and Pittsburgh are doing it this season.

For Chicago:



Some other "real world" examples from the 13-14 season, from Capgeek:

EXAMPLE 1: The Detroit Red Wings followed Option 2. The upper limit was $64.3M and the Red Wings Averaged Club Salary or cap payroll on the final day of training camp was $66,137,878, including two injured players, Darren Helm ($2.125M cap hit) and Patrick Eaves ($1.2M cap hit), with an aggregate Averaged Amount of $3.325M. Rather than simply place Helm and Eaves on LTIR, a move that would have left them with no cap space and a new upper limit of $66,137,878, they recalled Jordan Coreau ($792.5K) and Xavier Ouellet ($670K), two players with an aggregate Averaged Amount totalling $1,462,500. That increased their Averaged Club Salary to $67,600,378 $3,300,378 above the upper limit or almost exactly the $3.325M aggregate of Helm and Eaves. Only then did they place Helm and Eaves on LTIR, leaving the Red Wings with an upper limit to $67,600,378 for the duration of the LTIR designations. The Red Wings demoted Coreau and Ouellet the next day, bringing their Averaged Club Salary back down to $66,137,878, while leaving them with the flexibility to add $1,462,500 in Averaged Amounts, space created by the one-day recall of Coreau and Ouellet.

EXAMPLE 3: The Boston Bruins followed Option 1. The upper limit was $64.3M and the Bruins Averaged Club Salary or cap payroll on the final day of training camp was $66,086,309, including healthy Dougie Hamilton ($894,167 cap hit) and Torey Krug ($916,667 cap hit) whose aggregate Averaged Amount was $1,810,834 and injured Marc Savard ($4,027,143 cap hit). Rather than simply place Savard on LTIR, a move that would have left them with no cap space and a new upper limit of $66,086,309, the Bruins demoted Hamilton and Krug on the final day of training camp, reducing their Averaged Club Salary from $66,086,309 to $64,275,475 just $24,525 under the upper limit. Only then did the Bruins place Savard on LTIR, giving them a new upper limit of $68,302,618. The Bruins then recalled Hamilton and Krug and included them on their opening-day roster, bringing their Averaged Club Salary back up to $66,086,309, with the flexibility to add $2,216,309 more in Averaged Amounts, cap space that would not have existed without the one-day demotion of Hamilton and Krug. It's important to note that the Bruins had performance bonuses exceeding the bonus cushion that reduces the figures listed in this example, but they are ignored for ease of understanding the example.

It's a normal & smart move to take advantage of LTIR relief.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

Out of genuine curiosity, what other teams are doing it if it's "standard procedure"? I know the Leafs sent Harrington down likely for cap reasons until they can put Horton on LTIR, but I can't think of any team that's sent down a "star"/established player like Maatta.

The reason why Maatta was sent down was because he isn't waiver-eligible, it has nothing to do with his status as player. Same goes for Harrington or Svedberg.
Trust me, trying to read more into it is a waste of time.

 

[Shady Machine]

Are people still getting duped by these cap roster moves?