Rumor: Penguins have offers for one of their goalies

[The Old Master]

At this point, just sign both of them and have them battle for the No. 1 job. Then you deal with Seattle at the end of 2020-21. What is the worst thing that can happen? You lose Matt Murray for nothing? Seems like an asset win compared to some of our other, more recent moves.

And if the two goaltenders (or at least one of them) balks at the idea of sharing the crease, then tell them to go find themselves a better deal on the RFA market and take the picks.

The market should dictate the move.

or you could move one by the trade deadline because some of the other goalies wont be making the cut.

 

[Russian Factor]

Nah, I'd rather get a worse return for Murray and fully get out of JJ's contract.

Something like Murray and Johnson to Detroit for Glendening and a 3rd is better than getting either 2 2nds or a 2nd and 3rd for Murray, IMO.

Wonder if one of the rebuilding teams like Detroit/Ottawa/Buffalo would be interested in Murray/Johnson for one of their more polarizing prospects instead of a mid/late round pick (that they theoretically view as having more potential than a guy they've seen a lot of and come away wanting more from). Prospects they've started to entertain giving up on. Tage Thompson types. Or someone like Logan Brown who has huge bust potential with bad injuries, doing well in the minors but not sticking in the NHL yet, supposedly bad intangibles but still has a chance of providing value if given the right set of circumstances. Maybe there are better examples but that type of risky prospect. Might end up being MM and JJ for nothing if the risky prospect does indeed flame out but that's also true for the sort of pick PIT would get with a MM/JJ package.

 

[Mick Jagr]

The market is slow, so trading one now seems foolhardy and premature. Of course, Rutherford has been on quite a roll since the 2017 Cup win, so I fully expect him to trade a goaltender for pennies on the dollar.

There is no rush here. If you have to trade a goaltender in a buyers market like the current situation, you can do so after this season as well. The reason to trade a goaltender now would be if the market would be better than in a pre-expansion-draft environment like next summer. If the market is similar, then hold your cards.

As for not being able to afford to keep both, that remains to be seen as well. Again, neither player has a contract right now so we don't know for sure what they will end up with in terms of salary. If you sit tight, the players might flinch and accept something shorter term because of the current economic climate.

If every team needing a goalie signs one as a UFA before we can make a trade, our return for Murray becomes weaker. So while I get what you're saying, its not entirely true. We literally can not sign both goalies. So if we go into next year with Murray and Jarry, one of the goalies will be sitting around as an unsigned RFA and that goalie will be Murray. How much do you think he'd be worth then?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If every team needing a goalie signs one as a UFA before we can make a trade, our return for Murray becomes weaker. So while I get what you're saying, its not entirely true. We literally can not sign both goalies. So if we go into next year with Murray and Jarry, one of the goalies will be sitting around as an unsigned RFA and that goalie will be Murray. How much do you think he'd be worth then?

Sounds like he would be worth what he is worth now, because the market is not there for him.

Selling low on a two-time Cup champion goaltender aged 26 sounds like a terrible idea to me, but hey what do I know?

 

[Mick Jagr]

Sounds like he would be worth what he is worth now, because the market is not there for him.

Selling low on a two-time Cup champion goaltender aged 26 sounds like a terrible idea to me, but hey what do I know?

Thats the exact position we're in right now because of the flat cap. We will NOT maximize Murray's return at all. People need to be prepared to be disappointed in what we get for him. His market value isn't what people think it is because of all the goalies currently available + flat cap due to COVID.

We're not gonna get a king's ransom for Murray who, despite having two cups, is a worse option than some of the goalies available as UFAs. Yes, I know Murray is an RFA and that changes things, but so not having to give up assets to acquire a goalie. Murray has been inconsistent and often injured. I personally wouldn't touch him if I'm a rival team. I don't think he's gonna be all that great outside of Pittsburgh.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Thats the exact position we're in right now because of the flat cap. We will NOT maximize Murray's return at all. People need to be prepared to be disappointed in what we get for him. His market value isn't what people think it is because of all the goalies currently available + flat cap due to COVID.

We're not gonna get a king's ransom for Murray who, despite having two cups, is a worse option than some of the goalies available as UFAs. Yes, I know Murray is an RFA and that changes things, but so not having to give up assets to acquire a goalie. Murray has been inconsistent and often injured. I personally wouldn't touch him if I'm a rival team. I don't think he's gonna be all that great outside of Pittsburgh.

You are making my point for me. If the perception of Murray is that he is not worth the asking price, then hold onto him.

The worst move is to force-feed a trade because you feel you have to.

 

[Mick Jagr]

You are making my point for me. If the perception of Murray is that he is not worth the asking price, then hold onto him.

The worst move is to force-feed a trade because you feel you have to.

And you're missing the point that Murray literally can't be signed because of cap space. So "holding on to him" means keeping an unsigned RFA on the sidelines and worsening his value. His qualifying offer is more than we currently have available to sign

We have SEVERAL RFAs to sign as well as Jarry.

Do yourself a favor and familiarize yourself with our cap situation: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap, Cap Hit, Pittsburgh Penguins Contracts | Puckpedia

Furthermore, we can't just dump bad contracts like teams used to be able to do pre-COVID. Thats not really an option this year unless we continue to give away more and more draft picks which will further damage our already WEAK and worst prospect pool in the entire league.

 

[Avsboy]

JR is taking wild swings lately

 

[Jerkbait]

There is rumblings now of murray and JJ for a 2nd...maybe Ottawa or Detroit..

 

[Esq]

Why is he being so public with this? Makes no sense.

To encourage a bidding war?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

There is rumblings now of murray and JJ for a 2nd...maybe Ottawa or Detroit..

Why would Detroit or Ottawa give up a 2nd for Murray and JJ? Murray by himself returns a 2nd adding JJ to the deal if anything lessens Murray's value.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

And you're missing the point that Murray literally can't be signed because of cap space. So "holding on to him" means keeping an unsigned RFA on the sidelines and worsening his value. His qualifying offer is more than we currently have available to sign

We have SEVERAL RFAs to sign as well as Jarry.

Do yourself a favor and familiarize yourself with our cap situation: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap, Cap Hit, Pittsburgh Penguins Contracts | Puckpedia

Furthermore, we can't just dump bad contracts like teams used to be able to do pre-COVID. Thats not really an option this year unless we continue to give away more and more draft picks which will further damage our already WEAK and worst prospect pool in the entire league.

Trade McCann and Jack Johnson for literally anything...future considerations. I think somebody would bite. It would be the Marc Staal trade, basically, with McCann replacing the pick.

Walk away from Simon's RFA rights, and then figure out the RFA's starting with the two goaltenders. Worst-case scenario it costs you $10M to keep both. Absolute worst case. Then you fill the remaining two holes with the cheapest players you can find and you move on. Hell, invite a few vets on PTOs during camp and see if anyone is interested in playing for dirt cheap.

It is not ideal, but trading another valuable asset for pennies on the dollar is much much worse.

IMHO.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

If Pens GMJR trades Jack Johnson along with Matt Murray the most i see him getting is possibly a 3rd round pick.

 

[Beauner]

Why would Detroit or Ottawa give up a 2nd for Murray and JJ? Murray by himself returns a 2nd adding JJ to the deal if anything lessens Murray's value.

Murray by himself could likely return much more than a 2nd once free agency shakes out.

 

[Big Muddy]

I'd guess teams are offering 2nd rounders and he's waiting for a 1st.
I'd be weary of dealing a 1st for Murray myself. But from an OTT perspective I'd think about that NYI 1st for him.

Again just a pure guess on my end here

Teams with cap space have the luxury of knowing there is already definitely a glut of players on the market. I'd think any competent GM from a team with cap space can afford to submit an aggressive (favorable for them), initial offer and then just wait. There's going to be plenty of players and deals available when the inevitable squeeze occurs.

Didn't know where to stick this, but an article from TSN yesterday had some interesting info about the current market conditions for players.

"The message was simple yet still jaw-dropping. When asked to size up the trade market as a whole, this is how one NHL general manager framed it on Wednesday:

The number of franchise-changing players available or being talked about each day is astonishing,” the GM said. “It’s just that no one has any room for them.

There are now more than 50 names in play on the latest TSN Trade Bait board.

Each team has an incredible number of balls in the air between pushing to clear cap space, managing internal budgets, being unable to afford restricted free agents and juggling the free agent market ......."

So, as the article says, between teams needing to dump players, RFAs, UFAs, there is a glut of players available on the market now. Most teams first challenge is to try to find ways of dumping players to clear cap space.

While this info is not intended to focus on every single player that may be available, its definitely a factor to keep in mind when discussing trade proposals for the majority of players and teams. Some of the proposals that push big returns neglect the actual, current, market conditions.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Pens GMJR trades Jack Johnson along with Matt Murray the most i see him getting is possibly a 3rd round pick.

I think JJ and Murray to Detroit for Glendening and Detroit's 3rd is a reasonable suggestion.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Murray by himself could likely return much more than a 2nd once free agency shakes out.

Doubtful not with the glut of UFA Goalies on the market, Perhaps once the UFA Goalie market dries up and teams still needs a starter perhaps then. But that will be awhile.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I think JJ and Murray to Detroit for Glendening and Detroit's 3rd is a reasonable suggestion.

I'd do that in a heartbeat. I only see JJ as a possibility if we strike out on Krug. Even then i'm not sure.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I think JJ and Murray to Detroit for Glendening and Detroit's 3rd is a reasonable suggestion.

I think I threw up a little inside. Rutherford has basically already said Johnson is the 4th LD, so he is not going to play much if he is still with us. Conversely, Sullivan would probably LOVE Glendening and play him way too much. Probably more than Johnson.

So nay on that idea. We need to save the GM and coach from themselves...and for our own sanity.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Murray being unsigned hurts his value.
Not knowing what he is looking for in a contract means a team trading for him may be getting themselves into a messy drawn out affair.
Either teams need to be allowed to talk with Murray and his agent to work out a deal or expect the return to be much less than anticipated.

 

[SEALBound]

Murray being unsigned hurts his value.
Not knowing what he is looking for in a contract means a team trading for him may be getting themselves into a messy drawn out affair.
Either teams need to be allowed to talk with Murray and his agent to work out a deal or expect the return to be much less than anticipated.

No it doesn't.

 

[Tetsuo]

I think JJ and Murray to Detroit for Glendening and Detroit's 3rd is a reasonable suggestion.

Honestly, I would rather give up Cholowski than Glendening at this point. How good is Pitts development? Cholowski has had a tough time keeping up with the pace and physicality of the NHL but he has a lot of the other underlying skills of an NHL PPQB.

 

[Tripod]

What is Murray's expected cap hit/signing to be?

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

No it doesn't.

What if the team trading for Murray is obviously doing it for Murray to be the #1.
Murray and his agent could say to themselves that they have the upper hand on the team and decide to ask for $7-$7.5 million for 7 years and are willing to hold out while the team's #2 starts and probably loses games further tipping the negotiations in their camps favour.
The unknown definitely hurts both Murray's value and the Penguin's return.

 

[Mick Jagr]

Trade McCann and Jack Johnson for literally anything...future considerations. I think somebody would bite. It would be the Marc Staal trade, basically, with McCann replacing the pick.

Walk away from Simon's RFA rights, and then figure out the RFA's starting with the two goaltenders. Worst-case scenario it costs you $10M to keep both. Absolute worst case. Then you fill the remaining two holes with the cheapest players you can find and you move on. Hell, invite a few vets on PTOs during camp and see if anyone is interested in playing for dirt cheap.

It is not ideal, but trading another valuable asset for pennies on the dollar is much much worse.

IMHO.

There's not a single team in the league who would take Jack Johnson without sweetener. There is no dumping Jack Johnson to another team for nothing. Literally NOBODY wants him because he's godawful.