GDT: PDF Game 5: Sharks @ Golden Knights, 7pm

[Alwalys]

yeah that interference on hertl was f***ing terrible. i believe that level of call happened on more than one of the PPs too.
the reffing was terribly biased. the sharks were probably a quarter step behind at the start of the game but you get that many bullshit PKs and that's how you end up a step or more behind.

 

[Lebanezer]

I think it’s clear the referees guess on plays away from the puck. Since Vegas has been bitching in every possible medium the refs were influenced by that and made the wrong call. Like amateurs.

 

[WSS11]

I haven’t seen a team as a whole flopping as much as Vegas since 2011 Vancouver. Every time Vegas gets touched it’s like a sniper took them out from the rafters

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I haven’t seen a team as a whole flopping as much as Vegas since 2011 Vancouver. Every time Vegas gets touched it’s like a sniper took them out from the rafters

I have literally never hated a team as much as I hate Vegas and that includes the Los Angeles Kings in 2014.

 

[hohosaregood]

I just don't respect them.

 

[WSS11]

I have literally never hated a team as much as I hate Vegas and that includes the Los Angeles Kings in 2014.

I think I hated that 2011 Canucks team more but I hate the Vegas fan base as a whole much more. Bunch of drunken Neanderthals who have no respect for the game or it’s history nor the other teams fan base. They have a couple of good fans on the board. That Han Solo poster is usually very level headed in discussing the games. Seems like the main thread is starting to get testy though.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Plus their fans in Vegas are on par with Philly as some of the worst for visiting fans.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Plus their fans in Vegas are on par with Philly as some of the worst for visiting fans.

I haven’t been to Philly but I wouldn’t be shocked if they’re worse. Vegas is awful though.

 

[WTFetus]

There were a lot more iffy calls than that interference one last night.
I'm actually okay with that call. It looks like a 50/50 battle, but Hertl prevented the player from challenging the point, leading to a pretty good shot by Burns. It'll be called like that the majority of the time in the offensive zone.

 

[Alwalys]

There were a lot more iffy calls than that interference one last night.
I'm actually okay with that call. It looks like a 50/50 battle, but Hertl prevented the player from challenging the point, leading to a pretty good shot by Burns. It'll be called like that the majority of the time in the offensive zone.

hertl is entitled to his ice, he just happens to be so strong and solid that people lose the physical battle badly and that catches the eye of the refs. it's on the defender to get around hertl.

 

[WTFetus]

hertl is entitled to his ice, he just happens to be so strong and solid that people lose the physical battle badly and that catches the eye of the refs. it's on the defender to get around hertl.

Hertl could have hid it better. Moving forward alone, he probably would have gotten away with it. There was no need to move backwards afterwards, obviously interfering with Miller's path, especially since it lead to a point shot by Burns.

 

[stator]

There was nothing for Hertl to hide. His assigned to break to the low boards on that play. Engelland decides to interfere with Hertl to tie him up on Burn's shooting lane. Otherwise, Engelland has to make a choice: leave Burns uncovered and cover Hertl to the low boards, or cover Burns which leaves Hertl uncovered.

Carpenter seemed to be slow in recognizing the developing play, unlike Engelland. Engelland decides to further tie up Hertl by grabbing him and throwing him backwards to break up the play. This triggers a bad whistle and stoppage in play. Else, there would have been shooting space on Carpenter's side.

You can also see two LV players cover Pavs who is executing his assignment on a faceoff win which is to go low and look for Burns' shot to tip. You can see Pavs just setup for the tip.

This is a fairly common FOW play the Sharks execute. It's designed to confuse the defense into blowing coverage for a score.

 

[Led Zappa]

Since I supposedly never criticize DeBoer I'll drop this here.

He pulled Jones too early AND he should have used his timeout at the stoppage when he did pull Jones to give the big guys a rest after that 3 goal run. Substantial errors IMO that had a slight chance at changing the outcome of the game.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Since I supposedly never criticize DeBoer I'll drop this here.

He pulled Jones too early AND he should have used his timeout at the stoppage when he did pull Jones to give the big guys a rest after that 3 goal run. Substantial errors IMO that could have changed the outcome of the game.

Yeah, the guys were GASSED going into the 6V5. Should have called a timeout and made sure that literally any other than DeMelo was out on the ice as the 6th man.

 

[Lebanezer]

Since I supposedly never criticize DeBoer I'll drop this here.

He pulled Jones too early AND he should have used his timeout at the stoppage when he did pull Jones to give the big guys a rest after that 3 goal run. Substantial errors IMO that had a slight chance at changing the outcome of the game.

They need to change the challenge rules in regards to timeouts. He won’t call a timeout because a challenge is way more valuable. A good challenge can turn the momentum of a game. A timeout won’t necessarily do that. A failed challenge should have no extraneous consequences, like baseball, or do like football and give them 3 timeouts or something.

 

[Led Zappa]

They need to change the challenge rules in regards to timeouts. He won’t call a timeout because a challenge is way more valuable. A good challenge can turn the momentum of a game. A timeout won’t necessarily do that. A failed challenge should have no extraneous consequences, like baseball, or do like football and give them 3 timeouts or something.

He still should have used it. You can't challenge if you don't score and your chances of scoring with a gassed top 6 after playing a full game are much lower and the odds of scoring and needing to challenge at that point are very low. I think all goals are reviewed in the playoffs, so the need to challenge is even lower.

 

[Lebanezer]

He still should have used it. You can't challenge if you don't score and your chances of scoring with a gassed top 6 after playing a full game are much lower and the odds of scoring and needing to challenge at that point are very low. I think all goals are reviewed in the playoffs, so the need to challenge is even lower.

I agree that he should have, I was just saying that he overvalues the challenges.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Since I supposedly never criticize DeBoer I'll drop this here.

He pulled Jones too early AND he should have used his timeout at the stoppage when he did pull Jones to give the big guys a rest after that 3 goal run. Substantial errors IMO that had a slight chance at changing the outcome of the game.

He actually did what is empirically/mathematically necessary. NHL coaches should pull goaltenders way earlier than they do. This criticism is a huge reason they don’t: if you fail unconventionally, all of a sudden a lot of people are questioning your decision.

They need to change the challenge rules in regards to timeouts. He won’t call a timeout because a challenge is way more valuable. A good challenge can turn the momentum of a game. A timeout won’t necessarily do that. A failed challenge should have no extraneous consequences, like baseball, or do like football and give them 3 timeouts or something.

I thought all goals scored at the end of the game and OT are automatically reviewed?

 

[Led Zappa]

He actually did what is empirically/mathematically necessary. NHL coaches should pull goaltenders way earlier than they do. This criticism is a huge reason they don’t: if you fail unconventionally, all of a sudden a lot of people are questioning your decision.

Can I see the math?

I thought all goals scored at the end of the game and OT are automatically reviewed?

I don't think they can review goalie interference, though, can they?

 

[Alwalys]

can you challenge in the last 2 minutes?

the theory of pulling your goalie earlier stems from some study a few seasons ago that showed that the optimum time to pull is way earlier than conventional wisdom at the time (last minute or so).

but i don't know. at least for this team, as far as I'm concerned, pulling early doesn't help. it's happened so many times and turned into an early dagger, while i can only remember one time that the extra time helped score a tying goal.

maybe it's small sample, or maybe there is underlying cause. this team plays a puck possession style normally and when it takes chances it gives up that sure-handedness, which leads to the dagger. this team also plays a strong team game in a generally north-south direction, when it tries to make special plays it needs the room to operate east-west ... that room disappears with the 6th man.

also i think deboer doesn't use the pull at the right times ... he often pulls on faceoffs. at least wait to see if the team gets possession, or pull when the team is entering the zone!

i feel like you pull early for teams that have nothing going and can only hope to get something going with the extra attacker. the sharks don't have trouble getting something going with 5 men against almost any team for a short period of time. we have a lot of big players that can flat out dominate. the 6th player just seems to disrupt the flow of things.

 

[stator]

Can I see the math?

I don't believe the empirical observation or math is there to support pulling a goalie, certainly that early. The problem with proving it is justifiable is the math or observation (which ever one wants to rely on) always assume that not pulling the goalie results in no scoring and therefore a loss.

But we know, both empirically and mathematically, scoring is possible in the final two minutes of any game, regardless of whether it's a 5v5 or 6v5 situation.

I agree with the others that it was a bad call by PDB, who seemed to white wash it in the post-game interview by saying the 3rd quarter was just "window dressing".

Can PDB admit to making a mistake? Perhaps not is want I'm thinking at this point.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Can I see the math?




I don't think they can review goalie interference, though, can they?

https://www.tsn.ca/the-math-on-pulling-goaltenders-1.465010

As I understand it, everything that is normally reviewable, is reviewable.

 

[Led Zappa]

https://www.tsn.ca/the-math-on-pulling-goaltenders-1.465010

As I understand it, everything that is normally reviewable, is reviewable.

Thanks, I'll take a look at it.

The review is done by Toronto. I don't believe they get involved in penalty calls in any way. I'd love if someone had a link to a definitive answer.

 

[Barrie22]

By the way, just remembered something pierre mcquire said on tsn radio a few days ago about the referees.

His suggestion for getting the penalties right every time is to go 1 ref 2 linesman on the ice and then 1 ref in the booth watching a camera with a mic to the ref on the ice for penalties.

 

[Led Zappa]

By the way, just remembered something pierre mcquire said on tsn radio a few days ago about the referees.

His suggestion for getting the penalties right every time is to go 1 ref 2 linesman on the ice and then 1 ref in the booth watching a camera with a mic to the ref on the ice for penalties.

Is the NHL hurting for cash or something. Just put one in a booth