PC Building Guide and Discussion #11 (everything is expensive...)

[Kestrel]

Mining profitability took a significant hit on NiceHash in the past 48 hours. I can't really determine anything from such a small amount of information, as it could jump right back up tomorrow - but one could be hopeful that it's a sign of something coming. When I say significant, I was briefly pulling close to $7/day which was actually a small jump up (yes, I'm very small time), but now I'm right around $5/day. My CPU profitability took the hardest hit, going from a peak of nearly $4/day to about $2.25/day, while the GPU's took roughly a 15 percent hit.

Like I said, you can't draw any conclusions - it could just be a market movement that gets completely undone this week, but I thought people might be interested. One could hope that it might mean a few more GPU's float around at more reasonable prices.

 

[Zodiac]

Cool. 12GB is kind of a weird number. Do you have 1 stick of 8 and 1 stick of 4? Or do you have 4GB built into the motherboard and 2 sticks of 4?
Or does it actually have more than 2 slots?

just did that myself (install 12gb ram). i had 2x2gb/Gskill Ripjaws sticks of ddr3 layin around (from an older setup) that i wasn't using, and decided to give it a go. i never bothered to install it before because i didn't want to screw around with my overclock settings and 8gb seemed to be doing fine ...so i left it as it was.

i have 4 ram slots on the motherboard ...2 banks ...so i installed the 4gb in the unused bank and cleaned out all the dust off my cpu heatsink (noctua nh-d14) ...there's wasn't that much dust, but a little build up (i typically clean out my pc of dust with an air can every month or two, so there wasn't a lot of dust ...but it was still good to get at the harder to reach spots). had to remove the cpu heatsink to get at the ram slots ...which was alright since i was due for some fresh thermal paste on the cpu.

put it back together and of course the previous overclock was a little unstable ...but might have been due to the ram voltage being set to the low voltage of my other ram (2x4gb Gskill Sniper v1.25). the 2x2gb Ripjaws was listed for 1.5 volts ...so anyway, i set it to 1.5volts and 9-9-9-24 timings @ 1600mhz, bclk@ 200 x 19 for 3.8ghz. i also up'd the cpu voltage to 1.3 volts ...up from a previous of 1.26v, to make sure it was getting a decent amount. i then ran IntelBurnTest for 5 runs @ max memory and it passed ...ran it on two occasions @ 5 runs/max memory (takes almost 1 hour at almost constant 100% cpu load), and it passed both times, so i think it's probably stable. seems good ...its not acting strange or anything. the hottest the cpu got during the burn tests was 61°c or 62°c at max load ...(which is about as high/hot as it ever got) so it's staying cool and roughly the same.

also verified that the ram is working in dual channel mode via CPUz ...everything seems good.

so yeah, it was a small upgrade from 8gb to 12gb, but i had it laying around ...so what the heck ...12 is better than eight.

haven't really upgraded this pc in a long time ...like 5 years maybe? can't remember ...but the main specs are :

intel i5 760 @ 3.8ghz
asus P7P55D-E PRO motherboard
12gb ram
msi twin frozr gtx680 4gig
1.5tb hdd
asus 24" monitor 1080p

still runs the games pretty good, so i never bothered to upgrade ...ie, Battlefield 1 @ 1080p is almost always 60fps using the Ultra graphic settings (during the single player campaign ...haven't tried multiplayer yet, since i just bought the game over the holidays).

 

[Zodiac]

ohya, i also recently bought a Raspberry Pi 3 Model B.

been thinking about getting one for a while, and finally did ...neat little thing.

picked up a NESPi case for it, too ...looks like a little NES (old Nintendo) ...fits in the palm of your hand. so cool. it came with 2 heatsinks for the Raspberry Pi as well as a case fan for the NESPi. was around $29 from Best Buy.
NESPi CASE - Retroflag

also picked up a few more things to go with it:

32gb micro sd card

power supply with 3amps (to make sure it gets enough power ...some people report that the more common 2.5amp power supply isn't enough ...so i wanted to make sure i'd give it enough juice.)

small hand held keyboard with touchpad ...also has multi color backlight for the keyboard.

also picked up an xbox 360 usb wireless receiver for it ...so i can use my old xbox wireless gamepads.

currently have RetroPie and Kodi installed on it ...its a thing of beauty. it's like retro heaven for a guy who grew up in arcades as a teenager.

the bang for the buck is outta sight.

 

[Kestrel]

I got a couple of RPi 2's... I haven't used them for awhile, but they were fun. I had set one up in my parents' living room, so my dad could stream his music off my Plex server, and I had put RetroPie on the other one. My Plex server is on a big screen, so I want to get an emulator fully set up on it, but I haven't gotten around to doing all the configuring yet - otherwise, the RPi's do a great job for retro gaming.

 

[Zodiac]

ya i had thoughts about getting a second one sometime for use on another tv. Plex is pretty sweet ...i had that setup for a little while, but currently just have Kodi media center on the Pi.

there's a Plex app installed on my Samsung smartTV (just got one over Xmas) ...which i was also going to try out ...since i have a NAS (network attached storage - Western Digital My Cloud Mirror) with Plex installed on it. i'll have to check it out.

but yes ...i love that RetroPie. so many emulators ...it's an amazing little rig.

 

[Kestrel]

You CAN even set up a Pi as a Plex server - although everything has to be able to direct play - no transcoding for those little beasties It's hard to beat a Pi for the price though - I just wish they had supported Android; it would have opened up even more options.

 

[SniperHF]

TPU put out a list of all the known and rumored HW release dates/ranges
Upcoming Hardware Launches 2018

Very helpful if you're like me and can never keep this crap straight.

 

[Led Zappa]

TPU put out a list of all the known and rumored HW release dates/ranges
Upcoming Hardware Launches 2018

Very helpful if you're like me and can never keep this crap straight.

I'm so out of date I hadn't realized they were moving integrated video to the CPU's until I tried to install Ubuntu onto that Ryzen system I built a month or so back and wanted to build it without the TitanBlack GPU installed and discovered the Motherboard I got nor the Ryzen have integrated video

 

[Knave]

I know Kestrel mentioned a while back to wait for the new processors to get one or get the lower prices on the older versions and wait for the new graphics cards coming around the same time: would it be worth it to try to get one of those 2018 release graphics cards at or around release and build around that?

I know I said my budget was max $3000 but that was more because I have low credit card limits (mainly because I don't trust myself and I like to pay off my balances immediately) and I frequently use them for groceries, gas and other minor items. I could go a few thousand higher if I'm buying individual pieces over a few weeks/months and maybe days I guess if I'm vigilant and pay things off as soon as possible.

 

[guinness]

I got a couple of RPi 2's... I haven't used them for awhile, but they were fun. I had set one up in my parents' living room, so my dad could stream his music off my Plex server, and I had put RetroPie on the other one. My Plex server is on a big screen, so I want to get an emulator fully set up on it, but I haven't gotten around to doing all the configuring yet - otherwise, the RPi's do a great job for retro gaming.

Up to a PS1, even OC'd, my RiP 3 struggles like a mofo with N64. In comparison, my laptop, with it's integrated Intel 620 IGP just flies with N64 emulation.

Thinking of getting a second Pi 3 to use as a Pihole though, it's sucks that you can't just modify the hosts file on tablets/phones easily.

I like Plex, but it'll take me awhile to configure how I want, mainly ripping DVDs into ISOs - what I miss about Netflix with shows like Futurama, is the seamless transitioning of one episode to the next. Even with ISOs, it wouldn't be that seamless. I just plugged in a USB HD into one my RPi's USB ports, and was running off there.

 

[SniperHF]

I know Kestrel mentioned a while back to wait for the new processors to get one or get the lower prices on the older versions and wait for the new graphics cards coming around the same time: would it be worth it to try to get one of those 2018 release graphics cards at or around release and build around that?

Possibly. The rumored prices have been high but everything is high so....

The main benefit would be if you can get in on the pre-order you might be able to secure one that way without having to hunt one down.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I am seriously considering upping my mechanical keyboard game in terms of keycaps and dampening clips.
QMX Clips - Plate Mount

This would be for my K70.

 

[Kestrel]

Up to a PS1, even OC'd, my RiP 3 struggles like a mofo with N64. In comparison, my laptop, with it's integrated Intel 620 IGP just flies with N64 emulation.

Thinking of getting a second Pi 3 to use as a Pihole though, it's sucks that you can't just modify the hosts file on tablets/phones easily.

I like Plex, but it'll take me awhile to configure how I want, mainly ripping DVDs into ISOs - what I miss about Netflix with shows like Futurama, is the seamless transitioning of one episode to the next. Even with ISOs, it wouldn't be that seamless. I just plugged in a USB HD into one my RPi's USB ports, and was running off there.

I never really ran a Plex server off a Pi - I didn't want to have to worry about making sure nothing ever had to transcode. I'm running my Plex server off a Skylake i7, and my clients are all PC's, so I don't think my experience is really very typical.

 

[Kestrel]

I know Kestrel mentioned a while back to wait for the new processors to get one or get the lower prices on the older versions and wait for the new graphics cards coming around the same time: would it be worth it to try to get one of those 2018 release graphics cards at or around release and build around that?

I know I said my budget was max $3000 but that was more because I have low credit card limits (mainly because I don't trust myself and I like to pay off my balances immediately) and I frequently use them for groceries, gas and other minor items. I could go a few thousand higher if I'm buying individual pieces over a few weeks/months and maybe days I guess if I'm vigilant and pay things off as soon as possible.

You don't necessarily need to wait on new hardware - there's always a balance between waiting for the next generation for money or performance reasons, or just getting stuff now. New hardware IS around the corner, so it's not a long wait, but if you really just want to get stuff over and done with, and have your new hardware now, that is doable too.

If you're not in a hurry, I still think it's worth the wait on the processors... video cards, I won't pretend to be able to predict what's going to happen, the market is just so crazy - with signs that mining is going for another bust cycle, but other signs showing that maybe it isn't.

Remind me again what you're wanting your computer to do? $3000 is a pretty solid budget, I spent less than that building my Threadripper, BUT I skimped on the video card, and just got a cheap 23.8" monitor to go with a 21.5" I already had. You will want to budget for Windows, but if you're adventurous... I got my Windows 10 Pro key for something like $10 or $15, and it is recognized as legitimate.

 

[Knave]

Remind me again what you're wanting your computer to do? $3000 is a pretty solid budget, I spent less than that building my Threadripper, BUT I skimped on the video card, and just got a cheap 23.8" monitor to go with a 21.5" I already had. You will want to budget for Windows, but if you're adventurous... I got my Windows 10 Pro key for something like $10 or $15, and it is recognized as legitimate.

Be able to comfortably run some VR device like Vive or Occulus Rift is basically my one major requirement because I do plan on getting one at some point this year. I have the monitor(s) I need already for regular PC use.

 

[Kestrel]

Be able to comfortably run some VR device like Vive or Occulus Rift is basically my one major requirement because I do plan on getting one at some point this year. I have the monitor(s) I need already for regular PC use.

System Builder - Ryzen 7 1700 3GHz 8-Core, GeForce GTX 1070 8GB ACX 3.0, Enthoo Pro M Tempered Glass (Black) ATX Mid Tower - PCPartPicker Canada

I ran a quick basic build - I would allow for a few hundred dollars more as you're not likely to find that particular video card in stock at that price. I didn't pick dirt cheap items, I picked a reasonably nice case, and a more premium power supply.

Note - I did not check the RAM to see if it is specifically listed as compatible with the motherboard and with Ryzen - it's worth checking listed compatibilitiy.

Another note - you may prefer to go with an Intel i5 or i7 - they would likely have a minor edge in gaming - if you might want to do other things, or be prepared for the possibility of games that MAY be more core happy in the future, the r7 I picked has 8 cores and 16 threads - it hammers the i5 and i7 for productivity tasks, but only if you actually do that kind of computing. Or a lot of multitasking. Really, I don't think you can go wrong with r7 or i5 or i7. The r5 1600 could be worth a look too, if you still want a lot of cores, but want to go cheaper than an r7.

I can't remember if the r7 1700 comes with its own heat sink, but I believe it does - if so, it should be adequate, but you can always get an aftermarket heat sink for better or quieter cooling.

Depending on what you plan to do, you may or may not want another motherboard too. I didn't look too closely, but I believe the one I chose only takes one m.2 drive - you might want to grab one that takes two.

This is well within your budget, even allowing for an overpriced card, and I believe should be a more than capable VR machine - I think @SniperHF has done some VR if I'm remembering correctly, so he may have suggestions on what he would change.

The new AMD processors WILL outperform the ones that are currently out, and they are supposed to be available within the next month or two, but this build gives you an idea of what you could do today.

 

[SniperHF]

Never done VR, but it's generally GPU bound (shocking I know).

I'd still go Intel though. But I would in general anyway, especially at higher budget levels.
AMD R7 1700 vs. Intel i7-7700K VR Benchmarks: Vive & Rift In-Depth

Little technical and frankly for PR purposes I think he was a little too nice in the conclusion, but I think Intel is the clear winner for VR. Fewer dropped frames, better frame times. And that's Kaby Lake not Coffee lake. So an 8xxx chip is most likely better still, especially since they have more cores than 7xxx cpus.
Tom's had a similar article though they used an 1800x. EVE: Valkyrie - CPU Performance In VR: 11 Games Benchmarked

Same thing really "SURE the Intel was between 10 and 20% better in FPS and frametimes in many cases but it's not actually that big a deal both work fine". Maybe, but I'll be the judge of that when I see it for myself. And if I was building a system cold I'd obviously pick the better one if the price is similar.

<you can mostly not mind the above I'm just ranting about how reviewers play nice too much>


Neither will hold you back in raw FPS at any rate.

The only issue might be in Canada Intel CPUs are stupid expensive for some reason. Here the 7700k is almost even money with a R7 1700 and an 8700k is only $40 more. Up there an 8700k is like $100 more than the Ryzen.

What you really need to do though is throw money at a 1070 ti video card or better for VR.

I think even an i5 8600k or probably even an i5 8400 would do the job.

You can still run VR on middle end cards too you just have to cut detail settings. But that's no fun

 

[Kestrel]

The good news is... even switching to Intel, I think a 1070 ti is within his budget, even if he wants to buy today. I'd be curious to see how the new Ryzen processors do in VR - I wouldn't be surprised if Intel still edges them out, but they sound encouraging.

Edit: Daxi, I think the take away is, if you're strictly gaming, and that's your only plan - Intel is probably the way to go. I'm saying that as someone who likes AMD. If you have other plans, AMD could be a better option. Or, if you just simply prefer one company over the other, buy what you want, it won't make a big deal to your VR gaming. Sink your life savings into your video card

 

[samabam]

In case someone wants to build a new PC, I'm here to give some insights on my new build.
As I mentioned some weeks ago, I've had major stability issues during the first few days.
This is apparently because Ryzen CPUs and older Win10 Version dont get along that great. If you build a Ryzen be sure that the first thing you do is Win10 Updates, it's even more important than installing all the drivers, if you install drivers before the Windows Update they can get messed up - I still had the occasional BSOD (all with driver related Error Codes) in the last few weeks. Now it runs stable. If you have a current ASUS Board, it is also pretty important to run AI Suite and do the 5 way optimization, otherwise your CPU will be way slower than it should be (2200 MHz instead of 3600 in my case). The alternative is to not install AI Suite at all and set all up correctly in the UEFI.
Now after lots of tinkering and figuring out the freezes the new system runs great, but the driver related BSODs cost me quite some time to figure out.

The only thing left to do for me now is to survey the graphic card market, yeah the system runs fine with my old GTX 780, but as SniperHF said, the VRam is kind of a bottleneck that prevents resolutions greater than 1920*1080. But I'm in no hurry, the prices are just too insane right now.

 

[Knave]

The good news is... even switching to Intel, I think a 1070 ti is within his budget, even if he wants to buy today. I'd be curious to see how the new Ryzen processors do in VR - I wouldn't be surprised if Intel still edges them out, but they sound encouraging.

Edit: Daxi, I think the take away is, if you're strictly gaming, and that's your only plan - Intel is probably the way to go. I'm saying that as someone who likes AMD. If you have other plans, AMD could be a better option. Or, if you just simply prefer one company over the other, buy what you want, it won't make a big deal to your VR gaming. Sink your life savings into your video card

It's hard to say. Work these days makes me want to play games that don't last long or games that I can log out of at any time. It's killed my desire to play something like League of Legends where you're stuck with your team for at least 15 minutes but more likely 30+ without including the time to get the team. When I was in school or between jobs it might have been fun because I knew I could play 2-3 games in a row but 2-3 games in a row now is my entire night which isn't realistic.

I have a ton of tabs open in Chrome, sometimes I leave it on overnight to download a large video I've purchased online. That's pretty much the main use my PC gets at home these days.

I would be new to VR so I'm not sure if the gaming or watching movies/360 short movies of beautiful scenery would appeal to me more. Maybe they would both appeal to me.

As for video cards, yeah. Maybe I could sign up for those Ampere things? All I would want is one! Just one! Thanks for the theoretical build.

 

[Kestrel]

It's hard to say. Work these days makes me want to play games that don't last long or games that I can log out of at any time. It's killed my desire to play something like League of Legends where you're stuck with your team for at least 15 minutes but more likely 30+ without including the time to get the team. When I was in school or between jobs it might have been fun because I knew I could play 2-3 games in a row but 2-3 games in a row now is my entire night which isn't realistic.

I have a ton of tabs open in Chrome, sometimes I leave it on overnight to download a large video I've purchased online. That's pretty much the main use my PC gets at home these days.

I would be new to VR so I'm not sure if the gaming or watching movies/360 short movies of beautiful scenery would appeal to me more. Maybe they would both appeal to me.

As for video cards, yeah. Maybe I could sign up for those Ampere things? All I would want is one! Just one! Thanks for the theoretical build.

I think almost anything i5 and up, or r5 and up should work just fine for you then. Even an r3 or i3 SHOULD, but with your budget, I would definitely want better than that. I'd aim for 16 GB of RAM, and your high end video card. You definitely want an SSD drive too. If you have had one before, you know why - if not, you'll love how much snappier they make everything.

 

[Knave]

I think almost anything i5 and up, or r5 and up should work just fine for you then. Even an r3 or i3 SHOULD, but with your budget, I would definitely want better than that. I'd aim for 16 GB of RAM, and your high end video card. You definitely want an SSD drive too. If you have had one before, you know why - if not, you'll love how much snappier they make everything.

Yeah I think I might base things largely on the build you made up.

Is there a way to look up the compatibility of RAM? Am I right to assume only one M.2 Drive slot refers exclusively to SSD and I could still hook up regular standard hard drives that I have?

And I guess a last question: it looks like the video card will likely exceed half the cost of the entire thing, are there any compatibility issues I have to look out for there if I buy all the parts except the video card and wait and see on that?

 

[Kestrel]

Yeah I think I might base things largely on the build you made up.

Is there a way to look up the compatibility of RAM? Am I right to assume only one M.2 Drive slot refers exclusively to SSD and I could still hook up regular standard hard drives that I have?

And I guess a last question: it looks like the video card will likely exceed half the cost of the entire thing, are there any compatibility issues I have to look out for there if I buy all the parts except the video card and wait and see on that?

Each motherboard will likely have a compatibility list, although I've never bothered to look quite that deep. But there are lists of RAM that are designated as Ryzen compatible - most RAM companies will have a list.

M.2 is a specific form factor of SSD - an M.2 drive looks vaguely like a RAM stick, and inserts directly on the motherboard - you could most definitely still hook up regular hard drives to the motherboard, and can also hook up more traditional SSD drives to the motherboard - by traditional, I mean drives that use SATA connectors, just like regular hard drives.

And there should be no compatibility issues when it comes to video cards.

 

[Knave]

Each motherboard will likely have a compatibility list, although I've never bothered to look quite that deep. But there are lists of RAM that are designated as Ryzen compatible - most RAM companies will have a list.

M.2 is a specific form factor of SSD - an M.2 drive looks vaguely like a RAM stick, and inserts directly on the motherboard - you could most definitely still hook up regular hard drives to the motherboard, and can also hook up more traditional SSD drives to the motherboard - by traditional, I mean drives that use SATA connectors, just like regular hard drives.

And there should be no compatibility issues when it comes to video cards.

Thanks for all the help, I'm legitimately an idiot when it comes to this stuff. For months I was wondering why my games ran on integrated graphics instead of my GPU until I realized I had my monitor plugged in the wrong slot.

 

[Kestrel]

Thanks for all the help, I'm legitimately an idiot when it comes to this stuff. For months I was wondering why my games ran on integrated graphics instead of my GPU until I realized I had my monitor plugged in the wrong slot.

No problem - the people in this thread are happy to help.