PC Building Guide and Discussion #11 (everything is expensive...)

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Kestrel

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Jan 30, 2005
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Couple of thoughts on that supposed price point for the new GPUs....

1. I wonder what kinda of impact long-term there will be on other pc hardware manufactures and game developers when building a new gaming rig becomes too expensive due to these stupid prices? My wife has already backed down on her desire for a new PC and she probably is far from alone in this regards. I also have put the breaks on upgrading from my 4790K and GTX 970. I was going to just rebuild in a small form factor (Ghost S1, Dan Case or NCase) but can't find a decent itx motherboard for 4790K anymore.

2. If the price is temporary, I don't mind the revenue going to Nvidia and/or their partners. My understanding is that these manufactures have not been seeing this huge windfall in increased prices. I was under the impression people were getting these GPUs at a slight markup but then flipping the on amazon for huge profit? Have I been wrong on this thought?
At least up here in Canada, it appears that most of the cards, WHEN you can find them, are very significantly marked up at the retailers. SOMEBODY in the supply chain is making more money, but I don't know where in the chain that is.
 

expatriatedtexan

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Aug 17, 2005
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At least up here in Canada, it appears that most of the cards, WHEN you can find them, are very significantly marked up at the retailers. SOMEBODY in the supply chain is making more money, but I don't know where in the chain that is.

Hmm....Thing is when I go to Nvidia or EVGA's website I see their cards are marked up but only by $100 or so (but I rarely see them in stock...and they are gone in a hot second). When I see the same cards on sale at Newegg or Amazon they are priced significantly higher. I just assumed folks were buying from the manufacturer and then flipping for profit.
 

Kestrel

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Jan 30, 2005
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Hmm....Thing is when I go to Nvidia or EVGA's website I see their cards are marked up but only by $100 or so (but I rarely see them in stock...and they are gone in a hot second). When I see the same cards on sale at Newegg or Amazon they are priced significantly higher. I just assumed folks were buying from the manufacturer and then flipping for profit.
I'm sure some of that is going on too - I just don't think they are close to being the only culprits. I don't think most partners are directly selling stock to end users at this time.
 

Easy E

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Jun 9, 2015
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Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo will have to see a doctor for erection lasting more than 4 hours if those prices are real.

This will crush the PC gaming industry, tons would flock back to console when you can 4k game for $500.
 

expatriatedtexan

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Aug 17, 2005
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I'm sure some of that is going on too - I just don't think they are close to being the only culprits. I don't think most partners are directly selling stock to end users at this time.

The only two I'm aware of are Nvidia and EVGA. Corsair used to sell their Hydro 1080ti online but it looks like that has recently changed. Checked them the other day and while I briefly saw a "Order Limit: 2 per customer" message while the page was loading it quickly turned to a "Find A Retailer" block when the page finished loading.
 

Kestrel

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Jan 30, 2005
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The only two I'm aware of are Nvidia and EVGA. Corsair used to sell their Hydro 1080ti online but it looks like that has recently changed. Checked them the other day and while I briefly saw a "Order Limit: 2 per customer" message while the page was loading it quickly turned to a "Find A Retailer" block when the page finished loading.
Definitely a sad state of affairs. As much as I want to get a little money back from my PC - I wouldn't feel the least bit bad for the large miners if the industry crashed, and took them with it.

On a related note, one of my friends is an accountant, and was at a course yesterday. Part of it was dedicated to cryptocurrency. She was surprised when other accountants started discussing who had customers who had earned $XXX with crypto - quite a few had clients claiming $5000+ - a few accountants had clients claiming over $1 million in revenue for the year.

Edit: I would have to verify this with her - but I think that was specifically miners, and not investors.
 

expatriatedtexan

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That's pretty incredible. While I wish you the best of luck, I do hope the prices normalize somewhat although from what I'm seeing even Nvidia thinks it'll be 2019 or later before that begins to happen.
 

Kestrel

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Jan 30, 2005
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That's pretty incredible. While I wish you the best of luck, I do hope the prices normalize somewhat although from what I'm seeing even Nvidia thinks it'll be 2019 or later before that begins to happen.
To be honest, I wouldn't be horribly upset if GPU's normalized, but CPU mining stayed where it's at now. My CPU actually earns about as much as my 580 and 560 combined. If mining crashed, it's not like I couldn't afford my computer anyway, I would just love for it to have become a substantially less expensive proposal than it was!
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
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Welp it turned out my NAS was free because one drive was bad. I figured that might be the case but wasn't confirmed.
BUT one 4TB drive works and I didn't really need RAID 1 on a backup anyway. If it were containing files only the NAS maybe but I don't do backups that way.

So I could either keep using it with just the one 4TB drive or buy a matching 4TB drive for $99. I suspect it won't behave if I just toss in an extra drive I have laying around for some extra space.
Seagate BarraCuda ST4000DM005 4TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive Bare Drive - Newegg.com
 
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mouser

Business of Hockey
Jul 13, 2006
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Hmm....Thing is when I go to Nvidia or EVGA's website I see their cards are marked up but only by $100 or so (but I rarely see them in stock...and they are gone in a hot second). When I see the same cards on sale at Newegg or Amazon they are priced significantly higher. I just assumed folks were buying from the manufacturer and then flipping for profit.

At least EVGA is getting new stock every day or two and keeping their prices more reasonable then the 3rd parties. When EVGA does get stock most stuff rarely lasts long, however I have seen a few cards last several hours, and 1060's lasting a day+.

I've been watching them, torn between buying a new card and waiting for the 2080 announcements. Switched over to a new game this weekend that's less demanding on the GPU, so maybe I'll just force myself to stay away from the GPU intensive games for another couple months till we see the new landscape.
 

Starry Knight

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So, with how crazy graphics card prices are right now, would it be wiser to buy a pre-built? I'm thinking of upgrading on my 6 year old PC, so I can play modern games once again on PC.
 

SniperHF

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So, with how crazy graphics card prices are right now, would it be wiser to buy a pre-built? I'm thinking of upgrading on my 6 year old PC, so I can play modern games once again on PC.


Generally speaking you can get pretty decent deals on prebuilts in comparison to building your own right now.

This is definitely true in the middle of the budget range like say from $800 to $1200. Although I think some of the market has figured this out and some prebuilt prices have started to creep up a tad as a result.

What's your budget? Also what are the specs of your 6 year old PC?
Do you know what resolution you are going to play at? 1080p, 1440p, 4k, etc.
 

Starry Knight

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Generally speaking you can get pretty decent deals on prebuilts in comparison to building your own right now.

This is definitely true in the middle of the budget range like say from $800 to $1200. Although I think some of the market has figured this out and some prebuilt prices have started to creep up a tad as a result.

What's your budget? Also what are the specs of your 6 year old PC?
Do you know what resolution you are going to play at? 1080p, 1440p, 4k, etc.

My current PC has a [email protected] processor, 10GB of RAM, and a GTX 660 graphics card.

I've got 2 1080p monitors that I would probably continue to use and my budget is probably upwards of $1500CAD (but I could extend it upwards slightly if it could future proof it a little more).
 

SniperHF

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My current PC has a [email protected] processor, 10GB of RAM, and a GTX 660 graphics card.

I'd just get a video card even though they are stupid overpriced and throw it in your old system. By the time you spent $800 or so for the rest of the system and put a video card in it, you'd mostly be side-grading everything. Something like an i5 8600k has 6 real cores and performs better than your older i7 but not by a lot in games.


Your i7 is still plenty capable. I use a processor older and slower than yours but with a much newer video card ( RX 480) and I play current titles just fine @ 1080p. Not ultra maxed out crazy or anything but mostly high settings.

A GTX 1060, RX 580, RX 570, or something along those lines would be a huge upgrade on your 660 and the rest of the system is negligible in terms of how it would impact gaming.

You might want to get a solid state drive too if you don't have one already.

You could even get a little crazy and throw a 1070 or 1070 ti in it.

Kestrel might have a better read on where to price watch in Canada for when you can get a card at closer to reasonable prices.
 

Starry Knight

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I'd just get a video card even though they are stupid overpriced and throw it in your old system. By the time you spent $800 or so for the rest of the system and put a video card in it, you'd mostly be side-grading everything. Something like an i5 8600k has 6 real cores and performs better than your older i7 but not by a lot in games.


Your i7 is still plenty capable. I use a processor older and slower than yours but with a much newer video card ( RX 480) and I play current titles just fine @ 1080p. Not ultra maxed out crazy or anything but mostly high settings.

A GTX 1060, RX 580, RX 570, or something along those lines would be a huge upgrade on your 660 and the rest of the system is negligible in terms of how it would impact gaming.

You might want to get a solid state drive too if you don't have one already.

You could even get a little crazy and throw a 1070 or 1070 ti in it.

Kestrel might have a better read on where to price watch in Canada for when you can get a card at closer to reasonable prices.

Are there any concerns in terms of compatibility with graphics cards and motherboards? I do believe I have the extra 1cm of room for however much longer one of the newer graphics cards are.

And for solid state drives, should I still use my current hard drive too? What should I be transferring over if I go this route?
 

SniperHF

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Are there any concerns in terms of compatibility with graphics cards and motherboards?

Nope. Any board that will accommodate a GTX 660 will take current cards.

What type of power supply do you have?

I do believe I have the extra 1cm of room for however much longer one of the newer graphics cards are.

Card sizes haven't changed much since your PC was current. If anything they've gotten a little smaller on average.

One thing you might need to watch out for is the monitor connector type. If your monitors are older they could be DVI only.
New cards vary widely as to whether they have a DVI port on them or not. Quite a few do not but they usually have HDMI, in which case an HDMI to DVI cable will do the job.
There are also adapters but that can be annoying. Very few if any cards will have two DVI connectors. So the 1 DVI + 1 HDMI setup would work.

If your monitors support display port you could switch to that as most cards have 2+ DP outputs.

And for solid state drives, should I still use my current hard drive too? What should I be transferring over if I go this route?

Since you have an older motherboard you'll be limited to SATA SSDs. Which is fine they aren't that much slower anyway.

This is the way I would tackle it:
1. Unplug your current HDD.
2. Install Windows cleanly on the new SSD, make sure it's at least a 256GB SSD. 500+ is better but 256 is pretty workable if you don't have the budget for more.
3. Plug your old HDD back in.
4. In the BIOS set your SSD to be the primary boot device.

That will leave you with 2 working copies of Windows, one on each drive. You could remove the install on the HDD but I usually like having a backup and it doesn't take much space anyway.

Then you'll have your new clean install of windows on the SSD and all your old files intact on the HDD to access when you need them. Usually the HDD acts as secondary storage for things where speed isn't particularly important like videos/music/documents/etc. On the smaller SSD you keep your current games, web browser, and anything else that would benefit from the faster drive.


The other way to handle it would be to clone the drive, which will create a 1:1 copy of your HDD on the SSD. I usually don't like this process for a number of reasons but perhaps the most annoying is that the SSD is almost certainly going to be smaller than the HDD, so cloning a HDD to a SSD can be difficult if that's the case. Some programs (usually included with the SSD you buy but not always) will resize the partitions so they will fit on the smaller SSD. But that only works if you have empty space on the HDD to shrink.
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
5,814
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@Starry Knight I would maybe put the following card on auto-notify as I have seen it come into stock a few times - the price is pretty good for the current environment ($399.99 plus $9.99 shipping plus tax).

MSI Radeon RX 580 DirectX 12 RX 580 ARMOR 4G OC 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - Newegg.ca

If you HAVE to get a card right now, and can't wait for a reasonable price, you are probably going to pay at least $500 CDN, or more.

Don't bother with Ebay at this time - their prices on used cards are no better, and are often worse - not to mention I have come across a number of fake listings. Ebay has done a good job of killing the fake ones I've seen - ie, a $200 RX 580, by the time you click on the link, the page is gone - but you don't want to get burned either.

If you want, you definitely could budget more for a card, or if you don't need that much of a card, go cheaper - but I think the 580 is a good place to start.

If you want to go Nvidia, I see 6GB 1060's that are in stock for a little more. I'd personally go for a 6GB one vs a 3GB one, but those start at around $400.

Here's a Zotac mini 6GB for $450:

ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1060 Mini, ZT-P10600A-10L, 6GB GDDR5 Super Compact - Newegg.ca

I can't predict what's going to happen with video cards over the next while, but I doubt you see any prices better than the ones I've linked you to within the next few weeks.

Another thought - Nvidia is expected to release new cards some time this year if you're not in a hurry - but rumour has it that they will have quite elevated prices too, so waiting may or may not be beneficial.

Edit: I realized that Mike's Computer Shop is selling that Zotac through NewEgg - there's also an MSI 6GB 1060 there for about the same price - if you get them off Mike's site Mike's Computer Shop instead of NewEgg, you'll save the shipping. There's also a 3GB model for $375ish. The website is poorly organized, but it's worth looking at. I'd direct link all the cards, but I desperately need some sleep!
 
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JayToad

Registered User
Mar 5, 2018
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Yeah, for anyone waiting for GPU prices to go down you're gonna be waiting a while. Best bet is to try and snipe whatever shows up in stock when you get a chance.
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
5,814
129
Wow, NewEgg has an RX 560 as one of their "Daily Specials", at $230. Even with the current GPU prices, that doesn't sound so special to me.
 

The Nuge

Some say…
Jan 26, 2011
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Sorry, I'm way out of my element with anything Apple!
Anyway, I don't know that I'd go all the way up to 12GB, I think 8GB total would do.

My ram I ordered arrived today. It was only like $20 extra to get 12 instead of 8. I fired it back up and opened photoshop and Lightroom, and it said it was using 5.2 gb, so that was definitely a needed upgrade. It solved the slow browser issue as well. Thanks again for the advice guys
 
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SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
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Wow, NewEgg has an RX 560 as one of their "Daily Specials", at $230. Even with the current GPU prices, that doesn't sound so special to me.

RX 560's have started to inflate too (like prebuilts are which I mentioned to the guy looking to upgrade). The gaming market is moving where the supply is even if it's inferior :laugh:
An RX 560 isn't good but it will play basically anything at medium. If that's all you've got....

I bought my RX 480 on a black friday deal cheaper than a 4GB RX 560 and on par with a 2GB version :biglaugh:

It's happening on the used market too. You used to be able to pick up 7xx nvidia cards pretty cheap but now they are creeping way up.

My ram I ordered arrived today. It was only like $20 extra to get 12 instead of 8. I fired it back up and opened photoshop and Lightroom, and it said it was using 5.2 gb, so that was definitely a needed upgrade. It solved the slow browser issue as well. Thanks again for the advice guys

Cool. 12GB is kind of a weird number. Do you have 1 stick of 8 and 1 stick of 4? Or do you have 4GB built into the motherboard and 2 sticks of 4?
Or does it actually have more than 2 slots?
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
5,814
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RX 560's have started to inflate too (like prebuilts are which I mentioned to the guy looking to upgrade). The gaming market is moving where the supply is even if it's inferior :laugh:
An RX 560 isn't good but it will play basically anything at medium. If that's all you've got....

I bought my RX 480 on a black friday deal cheaper than a 4GB RX 560 and on par with a 2GB version :biglaugh:

It's happening on the used market too. You used to be able to pick up 7xx nvidia cards pretty cheap but now they are creeping way up.
I'm going to have to keep myself on old games for now. A 4GB RX 560 does a marvelous job with Fallout New Vegas :D That said, having modded the hell out of the game, it still likes to hiccup randomly, or crash if I mod the wrong weapon, but NV has always been big time buggy even without mods. But man, those load times - the game never loaded that fast on my laptop, even with an SSD drive.
 

The Nuge

Some say…
Jan 26, 2011
27,402
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British Columbia
Ah, I'm surprised an I mac had 4 slots. Learn something new everyday :P

As am I. Especially considering it’s 6 years old and now for only $80, it has 4 GB more than a new, $2400 iMac. I’m guessing Apple’s counting on the “I have to have the latest product” factor and people not realizing it’s so easily upgradable
 
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