Prospect Info: Pavel Zacha

[devilsblood]

I'm currently seeing Zacha as a mid 6 guy. Not really seeing top line center currently, as noted not sure the speed is there, nor the mindset, he has the size and skills though, so possible, but a lot would need to come together. But a good 2nd line guy? I do think he can grow into that role, and will be dissapointed if he doesn't. He's already a pretty legit 3rd line center.

 

[Nubmer6]

I see Zacha's issue's as lack of assertiveness, I think he thinks the game pretty well. Overthinks it perhaps.

Unless we are saying a guy who over thinks or over passes or is not aggressive enough lack's hockey IQ, and I could see using the term in that way, but I feel that is not often how it is used.

Yeah. He's just tentative, like he's afraid to make a mistake. I also wonder if he's physically gunshy because of his suspensions in juniors, or if he's intimidated because players are bigger in the pros.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

European Skaters Final Rankings | NHL.com - 2009 NHL Entry Draft
Josefson 3rd ranked European skater (ahead of OEL, MarJo, Orlov as examples)

The Hockey News' 2009 Draft Prospect Rankings | The Hockey News
Josefson 9th overall

Allan Muir: 2009 NHL mock draft
Josefson at 17

https://thehockeywriters.com/the-hockey-spy’s-2009-nhl-entry-draft-preview/
Josefson at 20

2009 NHL Draft Power Rankings
Josefson at 14


He was picked 20th overall. But yes, please tell me how it was a reach.

The fact that he didn't turn out as we had hoped doesn't mean it was a bad pick at the time

At some point the excuse that "we picked him right where central scouting said he should go" wears thin. If you wanted, I could get someone who knows nothing about hockey and have him create a draft board based on rankings found on the internet and make selections that way, and the results would be the same. At some point, Conte and his staff actually had to get something right, and they were miserable failures at that, and it's good they're gone.

As to Zacha, Conte again overlooked his lack of production and just saw a big strong guy who could skate. So that's what we got, big strong guy that doesn't really produce offensively. I suppose we could use a guy like that, because why not. And by all means don't trade him for nothing and the organization should be talking him up as turning a corner real soon. But let's get real, every excuse we've seen in this thread is really, really lame.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

believe me, I am not going to ever defend Lou/Conte, especially in their last few years here....the point remains that Josefson was not a bad pick even though the result didn't turn out to be what we would have wanted

Zacha just turned 21 freaking years old last month and made substantial strides in his game from last year. The deriding of him has gone over the line IMO.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

believe me, I am not going to ever defend Lou/Conte, especially in their last few years here....the point remains that Josefson was not a bad pick even though the result didn't turn out to be what we would have wanted

Zacha just turned 21 freaking years old last month and made substantial strides in his game from last year. The deriding of him has gone over the line IMO.

Whenever someone talks about "strides" and can't back it up in the production department, usually means we're seeing whatever we want to see. His point totals were virtually identical with his rookie year. That's not strides, that's evidence that a guy who didn't produce in junior isn't going to produce in the NHL. That's what you draft a guy number 6 overall to do.

You know who made real strides, someone like Travis Konecny. His production increased substantially from his rookie year. He also produced in junior, and actually carried Sarnia when he got traded there in a way that Zacha was supposed to, but could not.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Pavel Zacha 2016-17 ES points/60: 0.81
Pavel Zacha 2017-18 ES points/60: 1.32

that is...fairly significant.

His point totals were "nearly identical" because he didn't get a lot of PP time this year as compared to last year. Making judgments based on the box score stats is really a great way to analyze players.

I would also love to see the quality of players that Konecny got to play with (consistently) vs. what Zacha played with for the majority of the year

 

[Better Call Sal]

Pavel Zacha 2016-17 ES points/60: 0.81
Pavel Zacha 2017-18 ES points/60: 1.32

that is...fairly significant.

His point totals were "nearly identical" because he didn't get a lot of PP time this year as compared to last year. Making judgments based on the box score stats is really a great way to analyze players.

I would also love to see the quality of players that Konecny got to play with (consistently) vs. what Zacha played with for the majority of the year

Good call by you.

Travis Konecny - Full Stats, Line Combos and Game Logs

62% of the time, he played with bums like Claude Giroux and Sean Couturier, where he also produced 61% of his even strength points.

Pavel Zacha - Full Stats, Line Combos and Game Logs

Zacha, on the other hand, played with Wood and Noesen the most at even strength at 32%. Second was Wood and Palmieri, where it really looked like they were turning a corner as a strong line. But Palms got moved up not long after once Bratt's production dropped.

Hall and Palmieri were up at 16% likely from his time at the beginning part of the season. Definitely did not get the benefit of being with them the majority of the season, even if his play didn't necessarily warrant it at the time.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Whenever someone talks about "strides" and can't back it up in the production department, usually means we're seeing whatever we want to see. His point totals were virtually identical with his rookie year. That's not strides, that's evidence that a guy who didn't produce in junior isn't going to produce in the NHL. That's what you draft a guy number 6 overall to do.

You know who made real strides, someone like Travis Konecny. His production increased substantially from his rookie year. He also produced in junior, and actually carried Sarnia when he got traded there in a way that Zacha was supposed to, but could not.

Sorry, but if you or anyone watched the Devils this season and didn't notice Zacha's play improve significantly then I don't know what to say. We're clearly watching different games or you're just being ignorant. I think you're seeing what you want to see because the stats don't back up the play and it's a lazy fallback to say Zacha didn't improve, when he actually did.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Pavel Zacha 2016-17 ES points/60: 0.81
Pavel Zacha 2017-18 ES points/60: 1.32

that is...fairly significant.

His point totals were "nearly identical" because he didn't get a lot of PP time this year as compared to last year. Making judgments based on the box score stats is really a great way to analyze players.

I would also love to see the quality of players that Konecny got to play with (consistently) vs. what Zacha played with for the majority of the year

Just stop. He got less poweplay time because he’s not good enough to play on the power play. And if he’s good, he should be helping his line mates.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

 

[Triumph]

Whenever someone talks about "strides" and can't back it up in the production department, usually means we're seeing whatever we want to see. His point totals were virtually identical with his rookie year. That's not strides, that's evidence that a guy who didn't produce in junior isn't going to produce in the NHL. That's what you draft a guy number 6 overall to do.

You know who made real strides, someone like Travis Konecny. His production increased substantially from his rookie year. He also produced in junior, and actually carried Sarnia when he got traded there in a way that Zacha was supposed to, but could not.

Zacha made substantial strides in his scoring in 2017-18. He scored much more at even strength and he was used less frequently on the power play, meaning he didn't have the opportunities he had last season to produce on the power play. His power play results were rather unsustainable regardless - he was 30th in PP scoring/60 in 2016-17 among players with 50 or more minutes. His PP production plummeted, but the 2nd unit was a disaster all season with or without Zacha, so I'm not particularly surprised.

I don't care where Zacha was drafted anymore, that's over with. What matters is how he's playing now and I think he got a lot better as the season went along. There's probably not a first-line player there but I am surprised at how well Zacha thinks the game. He's still only 21, and Devils fans really haven't seen a forward his age develop in the NHL in a long time.

 

[Triumph]

Just stop. He got less poweplay time because he’s not good enough to play on the power play. And if he’s good, he should be helping his line mates.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

He got less power play time because he's a young player learning the game. The Devils did this with a lot of people as the season went along - Bratt was taken off the penalty kill and sometimes the power play, Hischier was sometimes added to the penalty kill but was seldom a regular, Zacha was added to the PK sometimes, etc.

I think Zacha will be on the PP full-time next season.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Whenever someone talks about "strides" and can't back it up in the production department, usually means we're seeing whatever we want to see. His point totals were virtually identical with his rookie year. That's not strides, that's evidence that a guy who didn't produce in junior isn't going to produce in the NHL. That's what you draft a guy number 6 overall to do.

You know who made real strides, someone like Travis Konecny. His production increased substantially from his rookie year. He also produced in junior, and actually carried Sarnia when he got traded there in a way that Zacha was supposed to, but could not.

This is a tough comparison, as this year we asked an 18 year old and a 20 year old to be our #1 and #2 centers, and spend their season trying not to scored upon. Look around - center is a tough spot to get production out of young kids. Kuznetsov wasn't in the league at 21, and was bumping around the 40 point mark at 23. Lindholm hasn't had much more than 40 points and he's been in the league for 5 years. Wennberg is 23 and had 35points this year. Zibanijed had 33 points as a 20 year old. Namestnikov wasn't in the league. Barzal is a tough comparison for Zacha (particularly because of draft year) but he wasn't in the league last year and is a much smaller player - and plays a very different game. Brassard had 36 points his 21 year old season.

Coutourier is of course the gold standard comparison for Zacha because of his size. He's bumped around the 35 point mark for the preceding 5 years before breaking out this year with confidence.

I'm pretty convinced that Zacha has the tools - and like anything else, it is all confidence. I'm not sure Josefson ever had all of the tools (btw: big? strong? he was undersized if anything)

The only worrisome thing could be that Zacha gets injured, and has some setbacks and loses his drive to get better. I am really optimistic based upon the way he entered camp and preseason this year looking like Kopitar and how some of that carried on early in the season and he had some success with some beautiful passes and some good goals. I hope the game will continue to slow down for him but for now I'll be satisfied if he gets 40 points next year and plays all 82.

 

[Call Me Al]

all we need from zacha at this point is to be a middle 6 center. 2nd would be ideal, but if we have two "middle 6" centers between him and mcleod we are set for the next decade. and it helps a lot that we don't have to worry about him defensively which is often the hardest part for young players to learn.

if he gets more pp time this season, which he should, i expect his numbers to increase a lot

 

[billingtons ghost]

It would have been nice to keep Wood Zacha Palmieri together for the year and see what shook out of that. I'm a big believer in stability of linemates.

RE Josefson: Of the 40 guys picked after him, like 3 are still with the team that drafted them; which means that in part the team that drafted them gave up on them - it is understood that guys like Silfverberg, Moore, Palmieri and Mojo are productive NHLers, but their teams moved on and traded them for 2nd rounders (and in some cases the subsequent teams moved on... as we will with Moore this summer) so outside of Orlov (whom we could have had instead of Gelinas) and RoR - I'm not sure who you wish we had picked instead. Robin Lehner?

I'm more upset about the next 3 defensemen we took washing out than I am about the Josefson pick.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Just stop. He got less poweplay time because he’s not good enough to play on the power play. And if he’s good, he should be helping his line mates.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

or the roster improved overall with the additions of Butcher, Hischier, Bratt, Johansson (and Maroon later on)

but nah, he stinx!! waive him!!!!11

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The problem is that some of you guys have some sort of thing in your head that if a higher pick isn't a superstar by the time they are 21, they are all of the sudden a bust.

Go around the NHL and tell me how many legitimate top 6 centers there are that are younger than Zacha. The list is pretty damn short.

 

[Triumph]

Just by way of illustration, Zacha turned 21 in April. Looking over some Devils' forwards of the past 20 years -

Parise: Made NHL debut at 21
Zajac: Made NHL debut at 21
Henrique: Turned 22 in February of his rookie season
Gionta: Made NHL debut at 22, turned 23 shortly thereafter
Gomez: Made NHL debut at 19, was Zacha's present age halfway through his 2nd season

So yeah, we basically haven't seen many forwards come into the NHL at 19 lately - Josefson did, and that turned out poorly, but I don't think that's the only outcome when a player has a mediocre debut season at 19. If NHL forwards peak at 24, Zacha has 3 more seasons until he reaches that year. I wish Zacha was better too, but I think he'll be a good player, he just won't be a star.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

or the roster improved overall with the additions of Butcher, Hischier, Bratt, Johansson (and Maroon later on)

but nah, he stinx!! waive him!!!!11

So your golden boy lost playing time to Bratt and Patrick Maroon? I’m surprised you didn’t say it isn’t fair to judge him since even the most promising young players will lose playing time to Boyle, Stafford and Jimmy Hayes when it’s that damned John Hynes who blindly favors his New England boys.

But yeah, he’s destined to turn into Jake Voracek real soon because they’re both Czech and were drafted in the top ten. And if you stare real close, you’ll notice that their points per sixty are identical when Mars is in transit and they played Detroit last Thursday.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

So your golden boy lost playing time to Bratt and Patrick Maroon? I’m surprised you didn’t say it isn’t fair to judge him since even the most promising young players will lose playing time to Boyle, Stafford and Jimmy Hayes when it’s that damned John Hynes who blindly favors his New England boys.

But yeah, he’s destined to turn into Jake Voracek real soon because they’re both Czech and were drafted in the top ten. And if you stare real close, you’ll notice that their points per sixty are identical when Mars is in transit and they played Detroit last Thursday.

Literally no one said that, but alrighty then!

Its clear that its impossible to discuss this topic with you so I think I will bow out.

 

[Devils Dominion]

There were around 21 forwards selected in the 1st round.

I would keep PZ over about 3 of them, Crouse being the worst of the trio

That tells a lot about PZ's stunted growth thus far.

 

[Triumph]

So your golden boy lost playing time to Bratt and Patrick Maroon? I’m surprised you didn’t say it isn’t fair to judge him since even the most promising young players will lose playing time to Boyle, Stafford and Jimmy Hayes when it’s that damned John Hynes who blindly favors his New England boys.

But yeah, he’s destined to turn into Jake Voracek real soon because they’re both Czech and were drafted in the top ten. And if you stare real close, you’ll notice that their points per sixty are identical when Mars is in transit and they played Detroit last Thursday.

This post is very high in flailing/60. No one said he was the next Voracek - you did. I suggest also learning how players are used on the power play, at least on the Devils' power play in 2017-18 - it wasn't just about them sticking their 5 best offensive players out on the ice together.

 

[Call Me Al]

There were around 21 forwards selected in the 1st round.

I would keep PZ over about 3 of them, Crouse being the worst of the trio

That tells a lot about PZ's stunted growth thus far.

no that just tells a lot about your opinion

 

[Triumph]

There were around 21 forwards selected in the 1st round.

I would keep PZ over about 3 of them, Crouse being the worst of the trio

That tells a lot about PZ's stunted growth thus far.

No, it tells a lot about your knowledge of the 1st round of the 2015 draft and how AHL stats project into NHL ones.

Okay, so you'd rather have Zacha than 3 forwards drafted in the 1st round. Let's just call those forwards Crouse, Gurianov, and Senyshyn. The latter two seem unlikely to be NHL players, and you mentioned Crouse yourself.

So you're saying you'd rather have - Evgeny Svechnikov, Joel Eriksson Ek, Jack Roslovic, Colin White, Dylan Strome, and Nick Merkley. You would take any one of those players over Zacha, a player who produced like a competent 3rd line center at age 20. Got it.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

There were around 21 forwards selected in the 1st round.

I would keep PZ over about 3 of them, Crouse being the worst of the trio

That tells a lot about PZ's stunted growth thus far.

so you would take Strome, Meier, Crouse, Guryanov, C. White, Senyshyn, Svechnikov, Roslovic, and Nick Merkly over Zacha?

Now you're just lying.

 

[Call Me Al]

this argument is nonsense. obviously he's been outperformed by a number of players from his draft but he is not a fully developed player and still has the opportunity to be a very impactful player for the devils moving forward. he's only 21!