Pavel Datsyuk

[livewell68]

Datsyuk is an outstanding defensive player with tremendous awareness and back-checking. But in the playoffs, he does not draw individual matchups against the opposing team's best forward. Henrik Zetterberg does. There are defensive forwards and there are shutdown forwards. It is one thing to be great in the defensive zone, a la Datsyuk. It is a completely different thing to be one of the greatest playoff shutdown forwards in NHL history. That is what Zetterberg is. He is tasked with shadowing opposing forwards in the playoffs the way that Bob Gainey was, but is also their top offensive player at the same time.

If you really watch the Red Wings, you know that. Last year, Detroit lost to San Jose because Datsyuk was manhandled by Joe Thornton. Mike Babcock wanted Zetterberg's line out against Thornton, and when that happened, Zetterberg shut him down cold. But the Sharks managed to get Thornton out against Datsyuk, who while being an elite defensive player, lacks the size and gritty physicality to individually defend the way Zetterberg does. Datsyuk had no chance.

Now, nowhere did I say Modano was better than Datsyuk defensively. As far as I am concerned, they are very even in that regard. Both were great defensive players, but neither was a true shutdown forward. But at the same time, please do not compare Mike Babcock's system in today's NHL to Ken Hitchcock's system in the dead puck era.

Datsyuk is not Sergei Fedorov or Peter Forsberg. Those were the only two two-way centers that were better than Modano during his prime.

There were many better two-centers than Modano during his prime and those are not only Federov and Forsberg.

Sakic was better, Yzerman was better.

There were also many better defensive centers than Modano; Lehtinen (who played in Dallas), Peca, Madden, Federov, Forsberg, Brind'amour, Draper, even Francis.

That being said, you can clearly see the competition during Modano's prime was better than it is now.

Datsyuk wouldn't rank among the top 5 two-way centers and or offensive players from Modano's prime.

The reason Datsyuk seems to be elite, has won 3 straight Selke trophies and is a top 5 player is because the higher end competition is inferior to what it was in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's.

No way Datsyuk even proves to be a top 5 player in an era where Jagr, Forsberg, Lindros, Federov, Selanne, Karyia, Yzerman, Sakic, Bure, Brind'amour... plied their trade.

On a side note it's the same with Lidstrom's Norris trophies. He wins 6 in an era where Bourque, Leetch, Chelios, Stevens, Blake, Niedermayer, Pronger were all getting old, past their prime, retired or injured.

Same concept, higher end competition for the top awards is inferior to what it was 10-15 years ago.

For the Hart, Selke, Art Ross, Lady Bing, Norris, Vezina it is easier to win them now than it was back then.

In fact it can be argued that Datsyuk is the equivalent of Elias from the 2000-01 season.

Elias finished 3rd in scoring, was 3rd in Selke voting (his competition were Sakic and Madden for Selke). Elias was also 4th in Hart voting but no way could he get in the top 3 when you had Lemieux, Jagr and Sakic being nominated for the Hart.

In conclusion it can be argued that yes Datsyuk is better compared to his peers than Modano was but at the same time the competition is weaker now than it was during Modano's prime.

 

[JackSlater]

That being said, you can clearly see the competition during Modano's prime was better than it is now.

Datsyuk wouldn't rank among the top 5 two-way centers and or offensive players from Modano's prime.

The reason Datsyuk seems to be elite, has won 3 straight Selke trophies and is a top 5 player is because the higher end competition is inferior to what it was in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's.

No way Datsyuk even proves to be a top 5 player in an era where Jagr, Forsberg, Lindros, Federov, Selanne, Karyia, Yzerman, Sakic, Bure, Brind'amour... plied their trade.

Peak Datsyuk would have been considered a top five forward during that era. The elite forwards of the late 90s were often injured (Forsberg, Lindros, Bure, Selanne, Kariya) while Yzerman was years past his peak. Fedorov usually played well below his capabilities during the late 90s and Brind'amour is just clearly far inferior to Datsyuk.

Regarding Datsyuk and Modano, people are noting that Modano was probably impacted offensively by playing in a defensive system. While that is very likely true, it also very likely helped him defensively, and yet Datsyuk still has a clear defensive edge. It has to be considered both ways.

 

[livewell68]

Peak Datsyuk would have been considered a top five forward during that era. The elite forwards of the late 90s were often injured (Forsberg, Lindros, Bure, Selanne, Kariya) while Yzerman was years past his peak. Fedorov usually played well below his capabilities during the late 90s and Brind'amour is just clearly far inferior to Datsyuk.

Regarding Datsyuk and Modano, people are noting that Modano was probably impacted offensively by playing in a defensive system. While that is very likely true, it also very likely helped him defensively, and yet Datsyuk still has a clear defensive edge. It has to be considered both ways.

Bure had three 50 goals season between 1997-98 and 2000-01. Lindros was injured but was still elite. Selanne was 2nd in scoring twice, once losing to Lemieux and once losing to Jagr. Even with injuries he was well over a PPG during the late 90's and was regarded as a top 5 player when healthy.

Karyia was injured but was still over a PPG in the late 90's.

Forsberg was a PPG player as well and when healthy was the only true challenger to Jagr as the league's best player non-goalie.

Offensively Jagr, Selanne, Forsberg, Sakic, Lindros, Kariya, Bure and Yashin would have been better than Datsyuk.

As for the Selke type forwards, Federov, Peca, Yzerman, Lehtinen, Brind'amour, Madden would have all been better than Datsyuk.

As I mentioned before, Datsyuk in his last 3 seasons has been like Elias was in 2000-01 and Elias did not win a sinlge award that season eventhough he was a top 5 player.

 

[Reds4Life]

Elias was never as good as Datsyuk is now. You named some guys, but when Datsyuk is top7 in both categories, he is top5 overall quite easily.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Definitely. He has some skills that are very unique, enough to put him in the top 100 right now. The fact that he's won a couple of cups and a few Selke's helps to.

 

[livewell68]

Elias was never as good as Datsyuk is now. You named some guys, but when Datsyuk is top7 in both categories, he is top5 overall quite easily.

Elias scored 96 Pts in 2000-01 in a lower scoring season than when Datsyuk was nominated for the Hart.

Do you honestly think Datsyuk would have had any Hart consideration in the late 90's with the likes of Jagr, Lemieux, Bure, Hasek, Pronger, Yashin?

I'm just saying that at his very best (2000-01) Elias played at the same level as Datsyuk although Datsyuk has been playing at this level much longer rather than for just a season.

Zetterberg plays against the opposing team's best players while Datsyuk usually plays against their 2nd unit meaning it is easier to shut down a second line than it is to shut down a top line.

Zetterbeg and Datsyuk are similar in comparison as were Forsberg and Sakic.

Elite two-way centers who play on different lines but on the same team.

I can guarentee that without Zetterberg, Datsyuk would not be nearly as impressive.

Going back to Modano. he was the Captain and corner stone of the North Stars/ Stars franchise who brought them to the Cup in a time where the Stanley Cup competition was intense with the likes of the Avalanche, Red Wings and Devils powerhouse teams.

Would a post-lockout Red Wings team beat a pre-lockout Devils, Avalanche, Stars, heck even Flyers and Blues teams?

Slightly better overall competition now but the higher end, top team competition is weaker now than it was in the 1995-2001 period.

Could you see Datsyuk winning any Selke trophies in the 1995-2001 period or even being a Hart nominee or even finishing top 5 in scoring in any of those seasons?

 

[Reds4Life]

Elias scored 96 Pts in 2000-01 in a lower scoring season than when Datsyuk was nominated for the Hart.

Do you honestly think Datsyuk would have had any Hart consideration in the late 90's with the likes of Jagr, Lemieux, Bure, Hasek, Pronger, Yashin?

Who cares about Hart consideration (top3)? It's not like Datsyuk has had many votes(one top3 finish), yet he is constantly talked about as one of the best in the game.

I'm just saying that at his very best (2000-01) Elias played at the same level as Datsyuk although Datsyuk has been playing at this level much longer rather than for just a season.

Even if you mean just that season, Elias was never as good as Datsyuk defensively. Datsyuk is just a more dynamic player, I love Elias, but Datsyuk is a level higher.

Zetterberg plays against the opposing team's best players while Datsyuk usually plays against their 2nd unit meaning it is easier to shut down a second line than it is to shut down a top line.

Zetterbeg and Datsyuk are similar in comparison as were Forsberg and Sakic.

Elite two-way centers who play on different lines but on the same team.

I can guarentee that without Zetterberg, Datsyuk would not be nearly as impressive.

Whoever plays on the first line has Lidstrom backing him up.
This goes both ways. I think Datsyuk is slightly better than Z.

Going back to Modano. he was the Captain and corner stone of the North Stars/ Stars franchise who brough them to the Cup in a time where the Stanley Cup competition was intense with the likes of the Avalanche, Red Wings and Devils powerhouse teams.

Would a post-lockout Red Wings team beat a pre-lockout Devils, Avalanche, Stars, heck even Flyers and Blues teams?

Slightly better overall competition now but the higher end, top team competition is weaker now than it was in the 1995-2001 period.

the slary cap
that said, who knows? 08 Wings and 10 Hawks were sick teams.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Yes, Zetterberg is usually is the shutdown forward, but saying that Datsyuk was manhandled by Thornton is quite funny.
Wings lost because of poor goaltending, and refs (yes, indeed).
That series was close, quite a few one goal games. Datsyuk had 5 points, +1 rating in 5 games.
Zetterberg had 4 points and +5 rating in 5 games (but got 2 points and +3 in that only (but big) Wings win in the series, which was all Franzen). You remove that game and it is
Datsyuk 4 points, even rating in 4 games
Zetterberg 2 points, +2 in 4 games.

Thornton was -2, (+1 if you ignore that blowout game).
Just saying.

Zetterberg is a playoff beast, certainly better than Datsyuk in that area, but Datsyuk is still better than Modano defensively, and I don't see how that is even arguable. Unlike Modano, Datsyuk was named the best defensive forward in the game three times.

If we go by Selke voting, then Datsyuk > Modano > Zetterberg defensively. Which is bogus - I'd reverse the order actually. Everyone knows Datsyuk gets more Selke consideration than Zetterberg because he puts up better (mostly offensive) stats.

 

[Reds4Life]

If we go by Selke voting, then Datsyuk > Modano > Zetterberg defensively. Which is bogus - I'd reverse the order actually. Everyone knows Datsyuk gets more Selke consideration than Zetterberg because he puts up better (mostly offensive) stats.

Even by watching the games it is clear to me Datsyuk is better than Modano defensively. Zetterberg is a special case, his defensive ability really shines in the playoffs, but in regular season Datsyuk is generally better too.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Just as an aside, he needs one more Selke to tie Gainey, the all-time leader with 4. Gainey is in the HOF and he wasn't half the offensive player Datsyuk is. Hmmmm.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

If we go by Selke voting, then Datsyuk > Modano > Zetterberg defensively. Which is bogus - I'd reverse the order actually. Everyone knows Datsyuk gets more Selke consideration than Zetterberg because he puts up better (mostly offensive) stats.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are both better defensively than Modano ever was.

Deciding who's better defensively between Datsyuk and Zetterberg is a toin coss. They are much different defenders and trying to determine who's more effective is splitting hairs. Zetterberg is better known for shadowing individual players, while Datsyuk is the best player in the world at shadowing the entire ice. Zetterberg is a better penalty killer and better at playing a structured system inside the defensive zone, but Datsyuk is a better defensive player in both the neutral and offensive zones. Keep in mind that depite that last sentence, Datsyuk i still very good in the defensive zone and Zetterberg is very good in the neutral and offensive zones.

It's actually funny, because many hockey purists seem to overlook and dismiss Datsyuk's defensive recognition purely as a result of his high takeaway numbers. Afterall, it is much easier to recognize a "true defensive forward" by seeing a forward draped all over an opposition forward. The truth is that Datsyuk has perfected a way to control the game on the defensive side of the puck that you just don't see everyday. He's the most disruptive player in the NHL and stops opponents before they even get started. If a player has the puck near Datsyuk, there's a good chance that it's going to result in a turnover. If he doesn't actually create a takeaway, players still know that they're forced to move the puck much faster than normal when he's in the general vicinity. And when a player on the opposite side of the ice sees him, they're less likely to lead the puck in his direction. There's not a player in the NHL that causes more secondary plays defensively than Datsyuk.

So how do you determine what's more effective as a defensive forward? Being better once your inside the defensive zone or being better at disabling opponents from ever reaching your defensive zone?


In regards to the main topic, whether Datsyuk ever climbs over Modano in a "HFBoards All-Time list" will be determined completely on how the rest of his career evolves. It'll likely be the career vs. peak argument. IMO Datsyuk right now is clearly better than Modano ever was, both offensively and defensively. I really don't see any solid argument against that.

 

[canucks4ever]

There were many better two-centers than Modano during his prime and those are not only Federov and Forsberg.

Sakic was better, Yzerman was better.

There were also many better defensive centers than Modano; Lehtinen (who played in Dallas), Peca, Madden, Federov, Forsberg, Brind'amour, Draper, even Francis.

That being said, you can clearly see the competition during Modano's prime was better than it is now.

Datsyuk wouldn't rank among the top 5 two-way centers and or offensive players from Modano's prime.

The reason Datsyuk seems to be elite, has won 3 straight Selke trophies and is a top 5 player is because the higher end competition is inferior to what it was in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's.

No way Datsyuk even proves to be a top 5 player in an era where Jagr, Forsberg, Lindros, Federov, Selanne, Karyia, Yzerman, Sakic, Bure, Brind'amour... plied their trade.

On a side note it's the same with Lidstrom's Norris trophies. He wins 6 in an era where Bourque, Leetch, Chelios, Stevens, Blake, Niedermayer, Pronger were all getting old, past their prime, retired or injured.

Same concept, higher end competition for the top awards is inferior to what it was 10-15 years ago.

For the Hart, Selke, Art Ross, Lady Bing, Norris, Vezina it is easier to win them now than it was back then.

In fact it can be argued that Datsyuk is the equivalent of Elias from the 2000-01 season.

Elias finished 3rd in scoring, was 3rd in Selke voting (his competition were Sakic and Madden for Selke). Elias was also 4th in Hart voting but no way could he get in the top 3 when you had Lemieux, Jagr and Sakic being nominated for the Hart.

In conclusion it can be argued that yes Datsyuk is better compared to his peers than Modano was but at the same time the competition is weaker now than it was during Modano's prime.

Modano had most of his top years after fedorov, lindros and selanne declined, this era is easily better for forwards than 98-2004, you just like to romanticize the past. You have to watch datsyuk to see his two way game, sorry this isn't jagr where you can make arguments based on stats.

Datsyuk's peers are Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Thornton, Iginla, Kovalchuk. All you are doing is naming any forward that peaked between 1993-2004, that doesnt accurately determine who Modano competed against. From 1994-96 modano was a one dimensional offensive player and he wasnt close to being one of the best. He cracked the top 10 in years where players like recci, nolan, naslund, bertuzzi and hedjuk were top 10 scorers.

By the end of this year, datsyuk will end up most likely in the top 10. He is the better offensive player.

The fact that you are mentioning kariya and bure alongside datsyuk's peak years shows that you can't properly evaluate the impact of a player who produced back to back 'two way' seasons. It's alot harder to score 98 points when you are also playing non offensive minutes, killing penalites, backchecking and actually being effective without the puck. Datsyuk is easily a better caliber of a player than kariya or bure ever were, and if you watch his games, you wouldn't try and argue it.

Owen Nolan finished top 5 in hart voting in 2000. Naslund was top 5 in hart voting 3 years in a row. Cujo and Yashin were top five in hart voting back in 1999, yet Datsyuk is going to struggle? Give me a break pal.

 

[jkrx]

Elias scored 96 Pts in 2000-01 in a lower scoring season than when Datsyuk was nominated for the Hart.

Do you honestly think Datsyuk would have had any Hart consideration in the late 90's with the likes of Jagr, Lemieux, Bure, Hasek, Pronger, Yashin?

I'm just saying that at his very best (2000-01) Elias played at the same level as Datsyuk although Datsyuk has been playing at this level much longer rather than for just a season.

Zetterberg plays against the opposing team's best players while Datsyuk usually plays against their 2nd unit meaning it is easier to shut down a second line than it is to shut down a top line.

Zetterbeg and Datsyuk are similar in comparison as were Forsberg and Sakic.

Elite two-way centers who play on different lines but on the same team.

I can guarentee that without Zetterberg, Datsyuk would not be nearly as impressive.

Going back to Modano. he was the Captain and corner stone of the North Stars/ Stars franchise who brought them to the Cup in a time where the Stanley Cup competition was intense with the likes of the Avalanche, Red Wings and Devils powerhouse teams.

Would a post-lockout Red Wings team beat a pre-lockout Devils, Avalanche, Stars, heck even Flyers and Blues teams?

Slightly better overall competition now but the higher end, top team competition is weaker now than it was in the 1995-2001 period.

Could you see Datsyuk winning any Selke trophies in the 1995-2001 period or even being a Hart nominee or even finishing top 5 in scoring in any of those seasons?

I could definitly see him him nominated and win Selkes and nominated for harts why wouldnt he? This is pure gloryfication of an era once again made by the most biased poster on this forum.

 

[Merya]

One note. Modano didn't have to play that much def, as he had Jere Lehtinen. Also didn't get much Selke consideration for the same reason.
I do think Datsyuk could very well rise quite a bit in the all time list before his career is over.

 

[livewell68]

I could definitly see him him nominated and win Selkes and nominated for harts why wouldnt he? This is pure gloryfication of an era once again made by the most biased poster on this forum.

How am I glorifying an era? If anything I think I watched enough hockey then and I watch enough hockey now to know that the 1995-2004 period had more talent than now.

Datsyuk for instance won the Selke last year based on pure popularity and his take away numbers.

Which elite players are Datsyuk's competition for the Selke?

I find it funny that when people want to diminish a player's career they tend to use the "he underachieved in the playoffs" argument.

However if they want to glorify a player who has been rather average (mediocre) in the playoffs then they completely ignore his playoff career.

Modano's defensive game is quite underrated on these boards and for all the talk of him not being a good offensive player fail to realize just how elite Modano was in scoring when he was young. Not to mention he had a better shot than Datsyuk and was a much better skater.

I have come to realize just how people overrated this new group of players like Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin and Datsyuk.

For that person who said Cujo was a Hart nominee, Cujo has never been a finalist for this award.

Even Datsyuk at his best could have never beaten Hasek, Lemieux, Jagr or Sakic for the Hart.

Lindros was still very good, even great in 1998.

Bure was basically the Ovechkin of the late 90's, except not as physical but more flashy and had very weak teams in which he made them competitive.

Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, Federov are all much better two-way players than Datsyuk.

A Hart is given to the player judged most valuable to his team. Between 1995 and 2004 all the players that were Hart nominees were very deserving.

When Datsyuk was nominated for the Hart, it was actually quite stupid because a team that has Zetterberg and Lidstrom on it is pretty darn good. If anything Lidstrom was more deserving of a Hart nomination than Datsyuk was.

Datsyuk is one of the more overrated players on this forum.

He's a good offensive player with good dekes and a good defensive game but that's about it.

He's not even among the best 50 centers of all-time.

Modano deserves to be among the 50 best centers of all-time.

 

[livewell68]

One note. Modano didn't have to play that much def, as he had Jere Lehtinen. Also didn't get much Selke consideration for the same reason.
I do think Datsyuk could very well rise quite a bit in the all time list before his career is over.

Yes because Datsyuk doesn't have Zetterberg on the team right?

Also Datsyuk has had the benefit of learning from Federov and Yzerman, two of the greatest two-way centers of all-time.

Modano didn't have that early in his career.

Modano was Dallas' best player.

Datsyuk is arguably Detroit's 3rd best player after Lidstrom and Zetterberg.

 

[jkrx]

How am I glorifying an era? If anything I think I watched enough hockey then and I watch enough hockey now to know that the 1995-2004 period had more talent than now.

In what way?

Datsyuk for instance won the Selke last year based on pure popularity and his take away numbers.

This is basically admitting that you didnt watch more than five red wings games.

Which elite players are Datsyuk's competition for the Selke?

Staal is one for example.

I find it funny that when people want to diminish a player's career they tend to use the "he underachieved in the playoffs" argument.

However if they want to glorify a player who has been rather average (mediocre) in the playoffs then they completely ignore his playoff career.

Whos ignoring anything here?

Modano's defensive game is quite underrated on these boards and for all the talk of him not being a good offensive player fail to realize just how elite Modano was in scoring when he was young. Not to mention he had a better shot than Datsyuk and was a much better skater.

Modano was so elite that he was top-10 twice...

I have come to realize just how people overrated this new group of players like Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin and Datsyuk.

In what way are they overrated? Because people say that they might be better than your precious childhood heroes?

For that person who said Cujo was a Hart nominee, Cujo has never been a finalist for this award.

I think he has a top-5 in voting for the hart though. There is a difference between nominee and finalist.

Even Datsyuk at his best could have never beaten Hasek, Lemieux, Jagr or Sakic for the Hart.

You can't possibly know that. This is isnt an evolution of hockey thread.

Lindros was still very good, even great in 1998.

Bure was basically the Ovechkin of the late 90's, except not as physical but more flashy and had very weak teams in which he made them competitive.

Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, Federov are all much better two-way players than Datsyuk.

Much better?

A Hart is given to the player judged most valuable to his team. Between 1995 and 2004 all the players that were Hart nominees were very deserving.

When Datsyuk was nominated for the Hart, it was actually quite stupid because a team that has Zetterberg and Lidstrom on it is pretty darn good. If anything Lidstrom was more deserving of a Hart nomination than Datsyuk was.

So if there is other stars on your team you shouldnt be nominated for hart.. strange...

Datsyuk is one of the more overrated players on this forum.

Its rather quiet about him on these forums...

He's a good offensive player with good dekes and a good defensive game but that's about it.

Yes, a triple selke winner that only have a good offensive game with good dekes and a good defensive game.

He's not even among the best 50 centers of all-time.

So?

Modano deserves to be among the 50 best centers of all-time.

Why does he deserve that? Your bias stands out like a sore thumb once again.

 

[jkrx]

Yes because Datsyuk doesn't have Zetterberg on the team right?

Also Datsyuk has had the benefit of learning from Federov and Yzerman, two of the greatest two-way centers of all-time.

Modano didn't have that early in his career.

Modano was Dallas' best player.

Datsyuk is arguably Detroit's 3rd best player after Lidstrom and Zetterberg.

So we should punish Datsyuk for having better teachers?

 

[Infinite Vision*]

Oh boy. So let me get this straight. Hawerchuk was easily better than Modano according to most, and Modano is easily better than Datsyuk, yet Datsyuk is easily as good as Hawerchuk was offensively, and defensively he's by far better. How on earth is the competition worse now than from 98-2004? Most of the elite players were injured for most of this time, Forsberg, Selanne, Kariya, Lindros, just off the top of my head, and Jagr had 3 subpar years in Washington. Yet, Modano was top 10 in points or points per game only twice, this is Datsyuk's 3rd year being 4th in the league in points per game, and defensively he's a beast. Insane that people would question if he's better than Modano, silkyjohnson said it best, Datsyuk patrols the whole ice, and Zetterberg might be better in certain key situations such as shadowing, but I think Datsyuk's overall ability to control the play both offensively and defensively is something we haven't seen since Fedorov, except in Datsyuk's case he's showing this year he's not just going to drop into being a consistent 60-70 point player for the rest of his career, but rather continue with his amazing offensive production as well.

Also anyone who still says Datsyuk hasn't been anything but exceptional in the last 4 playoff years, hasn't been watching. It's that obvious to me, check him out, watch him sometime, he's more than just a good defensive player with flashy dekes, lol.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Whether Datsyuk or Zetterberg is better could be debated in a whole thread of its own but really it's not a historical issue given both are still playing and will be for a while.

I think Modano's offensive peak is really not all that. You'd think given his name recognition and the fact he had 4-5 years in the league before the scoring really died down that he'd have a 100 point season, he doesn't. In 1992-93 he had 93 points, the closest he ever got to 100. That year over 20 players got 100+ points including very young players like Mogilny, Selanne, Bure and Juneau. Modano *may* have broken the 100 point marker if not for the low-scoring era that the middle part of his career occurred in, but it's not like he ever really got all that close.

As I said Datsyuk's totals will probably look sub-par as he wasn't a high-end prospect parachuted into top NHL minutes by the age of 18 but rather a sleeper pick that was slowly introduced to an elite team where he grew into an elite player. But I think if you ignore defense, Datsyuk's top 3 seasons beats Modano's top 3 seasons and Datsyuk is obviously an elite defensive player as well so it's pretty undeniable in my mind that Datsyuk is the better player even if Modano may have had the better career in totals.

 

[JackSlater]

Oh boy. So let me get this straight. Hawerchuk was easily better than Modano according to most, and Modano is easily better than Datsyuk, yet Datsyuk is easily as good as Hawerchuk was offensively, and defensively he's by far better. How on earth is the competition worse now than from 98-2004? Most of the elite players were injured for most of this time, Forsberg, Selanne, Kariya, Lindros, just off the top of my head, and Jagr had 3 subpar years in Washington. Yet, Modano was top 10 in points or points per game only twice, this is Datsyuk's 3rd year being 4th in the league in points per game, and defensively he's a beast. Insane that people would question if he's better than Modano, silkyjohnson said it best, Datsyuk patrols the whole ice, and Zetterberg might be better in certain key situations such as shadowing, but I think Datsyuk's overall ability to control the play both offensively and defensively is something we haven't seen since Fedorov, except in Datsyuk's case he's showing this year he's not just going to drop into being a consistent 60-70 point player for the rest of his career, but rather continue with his amazing offensive production as well.

Also anyone who still says Datsyuk hasn't been anything but exceptional in the last 4 playoff years, hasn't been watching. It's that obvious to me, check him out, watch him sometime, he's more than just a good defensive player with flashy dekes, lol.

I agree with everything said here except the part about Datsyuk being exceptional in the playoffs. He has been a good player in this area but not as good as in the regular season for the most part, and his significance to Detroit drops accordingly. People do probably make a bit too much out of his "weak" playoffs though.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Also Datsyuk has had the benefit of learning from Federov and Yzerman, two of the greatest two-way centers of all-time.

And? There's no question that Datsyuk was at an advantage in getting to learn to play behind the likes Fedorov and Yzerman, but how's that supposed to be a knock against him? It should be a credit to him that he took it upon himself to actually develop his game in such a matter. Datsyuk came into the NHL as a small 23-yr old highly skilled forward who was below-average defensively. He's since blossomed into one of the finest 2-way players that the league has seen in years (since prime Fedorov.) When a player evolves from what Datsyuk was when his career began to what he is today then it has to be a testament of that individual player more than anything.

Datsyuk is arguably Detroit's 3rd best player after Lidstrom and Zetterberg.

Wrong. Go to the Detroit board and poll the fans that watch every single Detroit game. I'd guarantee you that Datsyuk would win in a landslide as Detroit's best player.

Datsyuk IMO is the 2nd best player in the world right now (#1 being Crosby.)

In addition, Datsyuk has been a Top-5 player since 2007. In two of those season he finished 4th in league scoring while winning the Selke. This season, aside from the games missed from injury, he was on an identical track. He's sitting 4th in points/game while easily being one of the best defensive forwards in the game. Datsyuk's legacy will only grow with time. If anything, he and some of today's top forwards are underappreciated by hockey purists at this moment in time.

 

[RabbinsDuck]

Modern players do tend to get beat up around here - sort of the opposite from the main board (which is largely a good thing), but I do get a little vibe here from time-to-time that "all current players suck!"

I catch myself doing the same thing at times, largely as a reaction to the "Gretzky would struggle to score 100 pts today" mindset, but I have a hard time believing players have somehow 'regressed' significantly over the past decade.

The only players who really get much credit from the past 5 years are Crosby and Ovechkin, and it's not like they are lapping the field. I think eventually the Datsyuks, Sedins, Thorntons, Malkins, etc... Will get a lot more credit, in a historical context, than they do now.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

It's funny to me, because I can really tell who followed hockey closely during the dead puck era in this thread.

In other words, anyone who compares Modano's scoring finishes to Datsyuks without taking into account how stiffling Ken Hitchcock's system was probably didn't follow hockey that closely in the dead puck era.

Edit: Before anyone jumps on me, I do think Datsyuk peaked slightly higher in the regular season.

 

[crashman]

Top 150 all time? Jesus H Christ. Sorry, but this is a ridiculous thread.