Injury Report: Pavel Buchnevich: Concussion

[Miamipuck]

Taking an elbow to the jaw is hardly "not staying healthy"... unless you're suggesting he has a weak jaw?

Well he had a weak back last season, so there is a possibility.

 

[Trxjw]

Sad news. Hopefully he recovers and has no lingering issues.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

IMO Zuccarello is our only really legit 1st liner. The likes of Zibanejad, Kreider and Buchnevich might do okay on a 1st line but none of them as yet has produced more than mid 50's point production. Most teams--the good ones anyway will have one, two, three guys in the 60, 70, 80 range by the end of this year. Just saying. You can call them 1st liners but then they're low scoring ones. Top line talent is an issue for us. We're fine on 2nd line talent.

Zuccarello is the only one who has put up consistently what first liners put up. Buchnevich is only in his second season, so we can't use a big sample in deciding where he fits in an NHL lineup, which is why efficiency and per game is how he's judged, unless we aren't supposed to judge his ability, at all. Kreids misses games like every year, which is why he doesn't put up 60 per season, but per game his stats are that of a first line player, and its the same with Mika, although he's even younger than Kreider with less games in the league.

I fully realize none of them, at least so far in their careers, are high-end first line forwards, but if we are judging their stats, they produce as first line forwards on a per game and per minute basis. They do so in a number of measures, not just points.

I don't think we have any high-end first liners, but thats not the fault of good hockey players. On a team like Pittsburgh or Chicago or LA they wouldn't be tasked with being the best forward on the team because those teams already have established top of the league forwards. I was responding to the poster who's criticizing these players for not being top of the league forwards. Why should they be blamed for that instead of the team for not acquiring those players?

 

[Nopuckluck]

Zuccarello is the only one who has put up consistently what first liners put up. Buchnevich is only in his second season, so we can't use a big sample in deciding where he fits in an NHL lineup, which is why efficiency and per game is how he's judged, unless we aren't supposed to judge his ability, at all. Kreids misses games like every year, which is why he doesn't put up 60 per season, but per game his stats are that of a first line player, and its the same with Mika, although he's even younger than Kreider with less games in the league.

I fully realize none of them, at least so far in their careers, are high-end first line forwards, but if we are judging their stats, they produce as first line forwards on a per game and per minute basis. They do so in a number of measures, not just points.

I don't think we have any high-end first liners, but thats not the fault of good hockey players. On a team like Pittsburgh or Chicago or LA they wouldn't be tasked with being the best forward on the team because those teams already have established top of the league forwards. I was responding to the poster who's criticizing these players for not being top of the league forwards. Why should they be blamed for that instead of the team for not acquiring those players?

The players aren’t being blamed. Fans who view these guys as first line players are being blamed. Like it or not durability means something as far as what type of player you are. Our guys are good second liners. Just like Stephan and zbrassard are good second line centers. Kreider could be a first line player but he’s too inconsistent. Facts. Not fancy stats. Watch the games

 

[Thirty One]

The players aren’t being blamed. Fans who view these guys as first line players are being blamed. Like it or not durability means something as far as what type of player you are. Our guys are good second liners. Just like Stephan and zbrassard are good second line centers. Kreider could be a first line player but he’s too inconsistent. Facts. Not fancy stats. Watch the games

Common mistake, but your opinions are not facts.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

I'm almost dreading what's next - Lundqvist gets rabies? McDonagh contracts scurvy? This is getting ridiculous with the injuries.

Great, now you've given me something else to obsess over--Lundqvist owns a dog.

If McDonagh contracts scurvy, I'm going to a casino and playing his number on the roulette table!

 

[UnSandvich]

Common mistake, but your opinions are not facts.

Adding to this: Eye test is biased. No matter what you say, your bias will prevent you from seeing an accurate picture. Using eye test as your primary means of talent judgement in any case where it isn't the only possible option tells everyone else that they can safely ignore your opinions. Fancy stats are not perfect, but the numbers themselves are unbiased in all means except for the specific data being chosen to measure

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Adding to this: Eye test is biased. No matter what you say, your bias will prevent you from seeing an accurate picture. Using eye test as your primary means of talent judgement in any case where it isn't the only possible option tells everyone else that they can safely ignore your opinions. Fancy stats are not perfect, but the numbers themselves are unbiased in all means except for the specific data being chosen to measure

Which is why no mathematical model has ever been thrown out for being awful.

Also, most people in the Western Hemisphere suck at math, yet they have the Google effect.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Adding to this: Eye test is biased. No matter what you say, your bias will prevent you from seeing an accurate picture. Using eye test as your primary means of talent judgement in any case where it isn't the only possible option tells everyone else that they can safely ignore your opinions. Fancy stats are not perfect, but the numbers themselves are unbiased in all means except for the specific data being chosen to measure

As Mark Twain famously said: there are lies, damn lies and then there's statistics.

The way people use statistics (in general--not just about hockey) reflects their bias too. No one is completely objective regardless of the information they have and use; however, people can recognize their biases and make adjustments so they get closer to the seeing what you call the accurate picture.

 

[UnSandvich]

Exactly. For instance, I use xG as my primary. However, I back it up with TOI, QOC, QOT, eye test, etc.

 

[eco's bones]

Zuccarello is the only one who has put up consistently what first liners put up. Buchnevich is only in his second season, so we can't use a big sample in deciding where he fits in an NHL lineup, which is why efficiency and per game is how he's judged, unless we aren't supposed to judge his ability, at all. Kreids misses games like every year, which is why he doesn't put up 60 per season, but per game his stats are that of a first line player, and its the same with Mika, although he's even younger than Kreider with less games in the league.

I fully realize none of them, at least so far in their careers, are high-end first line forwards, but if we are judging their stats, they produce as first line forwards on a per game and per minute basis. They do so in a number of measures, not just points.

I don't think we have any high-end first liners, but thats not the fault of good hockey players. On a team like Pittsburgh or Chicago or LA they wouldn't be tasked with being the best forward on the team because those teams already have established top of the league forwards. I was responding to the poster who's criticizing these players for not being top of the league forwards. Why should they be blamed for that instead of the team for not acquiring those players?

If you want to anoint Pavel as a legit 1st liner before he puts up the raw and actual numbers to justify it--that's up to you. I don't really care that much. Saying there's not enough of a sample size doesn't do it for me. That's a judgement you're making. I want the raw and actual goals and assists and I'm not going to regard any Rangers forward as a legit 1st liner until they do put up those kind of raw and actual stats.

I will say though if Buch is our actual leader and is 58th in the league it's just another sign of how weak we are as far as top line talent. That would mean that most teams would have at least two forwards better than anyone we have. Buch is still a developing player in my eyes. I expect---hope he will get better. I think he has the talent to be similar to Pastrnak but he's still in the process of getting there. It probably will mean he is going to have to become the leader and driver of his line for that to happen. All in all he's taken a step forward this year but he'll need to get stronger again in the off season. Strength on the puck is one of his issues.

To add--somewhere standards have to be set. When you tell me our top line forwards aren't high end (but nonetheless their first liners anyway--so there!) then don't be surprised at the seasons conclusion that we end up with mediocre or even worse results. The only way a team can be successful otherwise is they win a lot of low scoring games--which means they're going to need outstanding goaltending for one thing. Lundqvist has been giving us that this year but IMO he's going to have to ratchet the old save% up drastically to say .950 for us to get in.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

If you want to anoint Pavel as a legit 1st liner before he puts up the raw and actual numbers to justify it--that's up to you. I don't really care that much. Saying there's not enough of a sample size doesn't do it for me. That's a judgement you're making. I want the raw and actual goals and assists and I'm not going to regard any Rangers forward as a legit 1st liner until they do put up those kind of raw and actual stats.

I will say though if Buch is our actual leader and is 58th in the league it's just another sign of how weak we are as far as top line talent. That would mean that most teams would have at least two forwards better than anyone we have. Buch is still a developing player in my eyes. I expect---hope he will get better. I think he has the talent to be similar to Pastrnak but he's still in the process of getting there. It probably will mean he is going to have to become the leader and driver of his line for that to happen. All in all he's taken a step forward this year but he'll need to get stronger again in the off season. Strength on the puck is one of his issues.

You say what I say , yet calmer.

You have the patience of a saint assuming you aren’t foaming st the mouth on the other end of the screen, but I don’t think that’s the case.

 

[Nickmo82]

Regarding who is taking Buch's spot:

"I'm thinking right away of a guy like Jimmy who all year long is begging for more ice time," Vigneault told the Rangers website.

Ahahahaha! I bet he's always thinking of Jimmy.

 

[UnSandvich]

Better Jimmy than Cody or (god forbid) Tanner

 

[eco's bones]

You say what I say , yet calmer.

You have the patience of a saint assuming you aren’t foaming st the mouth on the other end of the screen, but I don’t think that’s the case.

I retired about 5 years ago--a couple months after my dad died. I spent the next 4 years wheeling my mom all around. She was in a major depression.....and over time we kind of got her over that. But that taught me more about being patient than anything in my life. 90 year olds you know can say a lot of crazy shit especially when they ain't happy. There were times she drove me right up the f***ing wall....but I'd be back the next day anyway.

 

[Fitzy]

Regarding who is taking Buch's spot:

"I'm thinking right away of a guy like Jimmy who all year long is begging for more ice time," Vigneault told the Rangers website.

Ahahahaha! I bet he's always thinking of Jimmy.

Vesey's real TOI does get overestimated by NYR fans.

NHL.com - Stats

He averages only 13 minutes a game last year, too.

Buchnevich doesn't get enough minutes, sure, but that's not in actuality because Vesey gets overplayed. He sees barely any more ice than Paul Carey.

 

[darko]

Probably AV's fault.

 

[Nopuckluck]

I retired about 5 years ago--a couple months after my dad died. I spent the next 4 years wheeling my mom all around. She was in a major depression.....and over time we kind of got her over that. But that taught me more about being patient than anything in my life. 90 year olds you know can say a lot of crazy **** especially when they ain't happy. There were times she drove me right up the ****ing wall....but I'd be back the next day anyway.

You sound like a good son. Nice job. Good luck to you. Shit like that puts this Rangers garbage in perspective

 

[bl02]

Probably AV's fault.

Has to be.
But on a serious note sucks to see the entire KZB line unable to stay healthy. Just completely sucks.
It didn't even seem that hard of a hit/elbow but i guess doesn't take much

 

[bl02]

Honestly I think we are seeing the straw that stirs the drink of our first line. without Kreider neither Mika or Buch are first liners. All there together they make a decent first line. Definitely not elite but decent. Mika and Buch are Very good second liners especially Buch. Whether we like it or not staying healthy and in the lineup matters too.

 

[Raspewtin]

Part of being an elite player is staying healthy. Learning how to protect yourself. Messier did it. If someone hits you hard ok. The next time get your stick up in his teeth and so what if you get a 5 minute major. Stick up for yourself. Kid spent 1/2 his career so far in the press box, and 1/2 injured. He will never amount to more than a fringe 2nd line singer. Way to soft. Play him and Zibby together on the 5th line

lol so lemieux wasn't elite?

 

[Machinehead]

lol so lemieux wasn't elite?

That pansy got cancer. Third liner at best.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Lé Magnifque has 10x more actual[realized] goals and points than Buch has expected goals and points.

What was that outlier thing y’all are always yammering about?

 

[Crease]

Is it over yet? This season.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Part of being an elite player is staying healthy. Learning how to protect yourself. Messier did it. If someone hits you hard ok.

Starting sensible

The next time get your stick up in his teeth and so what if you get a 5 minute major.

Starting to sound like a dumb agenda based on dinosauric mentality from the 60s-90s

Stick up for yourself. Kid spent 1/2 his career so far in the press box, and 1/2 injured. He will never amount to more than a fringe 2nd line singer. Way to soft. Play him and Zibby together on the 5th line

And post has descended into nonsensical rambling

He’s not as good as people make him out to be. Paper tiger in a mans game

I can understand if you feel some people overrate him. His game isn't complete enough imo for the level of praise some give him.

Paper tiger in a mans game

Aaaand nonsensical gibberish likely driven by aforementioned dinosaur mentality.

You make your own breaks by being strong, sticking up for yourself and working hard

Too bad even Messier took hard as hell hits and was injured. Mike Modano wasn't tuff enuff I guess? He had a real ass-y career didn't he? He should've tuffed his way off the stretcher and the paramedics wouldn't have dropped it. overrated scrub.

He’s a first liner on the Rangers. So is Mika and Kreider the 30% of games he shows up for. That is our problem

Our problem is some of our top 6 players are worthy of being top 6 players and one of them, Buch, is young and still finding his game? That Jumbo joe was a real piece of crap. barely any points in his first season and like 40 in season 2? Guys never get better or develop, they either start tuff and perfect or they get an elbow to the face, something that never happens to tru-leets.