Patrick Wiercioch

[Mr Invidious]

So solid he was scratched at times and played himself out of the line up

Because having a sports hernia had nothing to do with it, right?

 

[BigBush*]

Because having a sports hernia had nothing to do with it, right?

Of course it did. These are professional athletes playing one of the most physically demanding sports in the world. Injuries are going to come up and effect their play.

But we have to judge them for their play on the ice. Cowen has had 2 fairly poor seasons now for a guy that has high expectations placed on him

 

[Mr Invidious]

Of course it did. These are professional athletes playing one of the most physically demanding sports in the world. Injuries are going to come up and effect their play.

But we have to judge them for their play on the ice. Cowen has had 2 fairly poor seasons now for a guy that has high expectations placed on him

He still outperformed our bottom-pairing. He was better than Gryba all season, even at his worst. So him coming out of the line-up based on his play alone is inaccurate.

A large, defensive minded defensemen has under-performed while battling varying injuries throughout the majority of his time spent in the NHL. When Cowen was 100% healthy this season, he looked more than capable.

Players like Cowen generally don't begin to shine until a bit later in the 20's than more mobile, offensive minded defensemen.

I can understand the criticisms. He's deserved a lot of them. But he needs to be given a chance and unfortunately, it seems like a lot of people have already written him off. It's just funny how he got way more flack than any other defenseman on the team this season when he was outperforming half of them. And when he went down with his hernia, he wasn't playing well but not many others were playing any better on the blue-line.

IF Cowen can remain healthy for a prolonged period of time and given an opportunity to come back into the line-up playing somewhere between 2nd and 3rd pairing minutes, he's going to be good. Mark my words.

 

[Boud]

He still outperformed our bottom-pairing. He was better than Gryba all season, even at his worst. So him coming out of the line-up based on his play alone is inaccurate.

A large, defensive minded defensemen has under-performed while battling varying injuries throughout the majority of his time spent in the NHL. When Cowen was 100% healthy this season, he looked more than capable.

Players like Cowen generally don't begin to shine until a bit later in the 20's than more mobile, offensive minded defensemen.

I can understand the criticisms. He's deserved a lot of them. But he needs to be given a chance and unfortunately, it seems like a lot of people have already written him off. It's just funny how he got way more flack than any other defenseman on the team this season when he was outperforming half of them. And when he went down with his hernia, he wasn't playing well but not many others were playing any better on the blue-line.

IF Cowen can remain healthy for a prolonged period of time and given an opportunity to come back into the line-up playing somewhere between 2nd and 3rd pairing minutes, he's going to be good. Mark my words.

I agree with you on Cowen but the reason he wasn't playing ahead of Gryba is simply because Cowen doesn't play the right side and Gryba is part of the only 3 guys who does. Karlsson,Ceci and Gryba are our only Dmen who play the right side (Wideman also) while we have Methot,Wiercioch,Cowen,Philips,Borowiecki,Claesson on the Left.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I swear, Ottawa has the worst fanbase for throwing away our kids. If it isn't undervaluing our guys, it's putting them in every trade proposal imaginable.

We should be trying to do everything possible to get the best out of Cowen, Weir and Lehner.....and then sit back and enjoy watching them play for our Sens for the next decade.

 

[BigBush*]

Cowen outplayed Gryba? They both looked like bottom pairing defenseman to me. You can't clearly say one was better then the other.

You can say Cowen has a higher ceiling though

 

[OgieO]

I swear, Ottawa has the worst fanbase for throwing away our kids. If it isn't undervaluing our guys, it's putting them in every trade proposal imaginable.

We should be trying to do everything possible to get the best out of Cowen, Weir and Lehner.....and then sit back and enjoy watching them play for our Sens for the next decade.

Problem with Cowen and PW is finding room for them. Methot, Boro are already there. Is there room for both PW and Cowen? Is having one of them sit good use of assets or would it be better to move on asset to augment other areas of the rosters.

Kinda the same scenario for Lehner but I would only move him if we really get a great asset in return. 1 step back, 2 steps forwards kind of deal.

 

[Tee Lo]

Because having a sports hernia had nothing to do with it, right?

I doubt he played with that injury the whole season.
He probably got it mid-way through the season, and shouldn't give Cowen a free pass.
I don't know what people see in him. His skills and size aren't in question here, it's his decision making that's just so bad.

 

[Mr Invidious]

I doubt he played with that injury the whole season.
He probably got it mid-way through the season, and shouldn't give Cowen a free pass.
I don't know what people see in him. His skills and size aren't in question here, it's his decision making that's just so bad.

Yeah. And Cowen was one of our best blue-liners for a good 15-20 games in that 1st third of the season.

The timeline makes a whole lot of sense given that management confirmed he was playing with the injury for a few weeks. It lines up right with where he dropped off again.

I'm surprised that so many people either choose to ignore or just didn't notice how Cowen was playing earlier in the season. I honestly believe that some people were still in a bad mood about how awful Cowen was in the 2013-14 campaign and he wasn't much better in the first few games on this past season either. He was written off and I think people convinced themselves to ignore his good play prior to his injury.

Obviously, we won't know how he's going to do from this point out. It's been debated about as much as it can. I think he's going to be just fine in the future.

 

[BigBush*]

Haha Cowen was one of our best defensemen for a quarter of the season?

I cant believe anyone would think this

 

[Tee Lo]

Yeah. And Cowen was one of our best blue-liners for a good 15-20 games in that 1st third of the season.

The timeline makes a whole lot of sense given that management confirmed he was playing with the injury for a few weeks. It lines up right with where he dropped off again.

I'm surprised that so many people either choose to ignore or just didn't notice how Cowen was playing earlier in the season. I honestly believe that some people were still in a bad mood about how awful Cowen was in the 2013-14 campaign and he wasn't much better in the first few games on this past season either. He was written off and I think people convinced themselves to ignore his good play prior to his injury.

Obviously, we won't know how he's going to do from this point out. It's been debated about as much as it can. I think he's going to be just fine in the future.

You're joking right?

 

[FlyingJ]

Yeah. And Cowen was one of our best blue-liners for a good 15-20 games in that 1st third of the season.

The timeline makes a whole lot of sense given that management confirmed he was playing with the injury for a few weeks. It lines up right with where he dropped off again.

I'm surprised that so many people either choose to ignore or just didn't notice how Cowen was playing earlier in the season. I honestly believe that some people were still in a bad mood about how awful Cowen was in the 2013-14 campaign and he wasn't much better in the first few games on this past season either. He was written off and I think people convinced themselves to ignore his good play prior to his injury.

Obviously, we won't know how he's going to do from this point out. It's been debated about as much as it can. I think he's going to be just fine in the future.

Um, what?

First off, low standard there. The entire d-corps was struggling mightily that first third of the season. Second, Cowen played like an every-day NHLer for a couple of months tops. Not amazing, but solid. Looked like maybe he would finally start panning out to be a decent #4 defenceman. Then, well over a month before his suspension (closer to 2 months I'd argue), the brain cramps started coming back. The constantly being out of position or running around in his own end like a chicken with its head cut off.

Credit where credit is due: he played solidly for a bit of the season. Most of November and December from what I remember. Only after the coaching staff went to great lengths to put in extra work with him compared to other players though. IIRC, Jason Smith regularly took him aside early in the season to work on his game. But his playing for a few weeks with the hernia would suggest more right before he got suspended, not long before. So what's the excuse for the first month of the season, where he was on par with his 2013-14 self? Or for January-Frebruary?

As some earlier posters have mentioned, it's his decision making that is really being doubted. I have no doubt injuries like a hernia play a part in that, but to what point? IMO, that doesn't excuse all of his poor play for the majority of the season. It doesn't even excuse half of it.

 

[Mr Invidious]

You're joking right?

Haha Cowen was one of our best defensemen for a quarter of the season?

I cant believe anyone would think this

Um, what?

First off, low standard there. The entire d-corps was struggling mightily that first third of the season. Second, Cowen played like an every-day NHLer for a couple of months tops. Not amazing, but solid. Looked like maybe he would finally start panning out to be a decent #4 defenceman. Then, well over a month before his suspension (closer to 2 months I'd argue), the brain cramps started coming back. The constantly being out of position or running around in his own end like a chicken with its head cut off.

Credit where credit is due: he played solidly for a bit of the season. Most of November and December from what I remember. Only after the coaching staff went to great lengths to put in extra work with him compared to other players though. IIRC, Jason Smith regularly took him aside early in the season to work on his game. But his playing for a few weeks with the hernia would suggest more right before he got suspended, not long before. So what's the excuse for the first month of the season, where he was on par with his 2013-14 self? Or for January-Frebruary?

As some earlier posters have mentioned, it's his decision making that is really being doubted. I have no doubt injuries like a hernia play a part in that, but to what point? IMO, that doesn't excuse all of his poor play for the majority of the season. It doesn't even excuse half of it.

I'm not making claim that Jared Cowen is even a 2nd pairing defenseman right now. He's not. But my point stands that he was better than everyone not named "Erik Karlsson" on the blue-line for that portion of the season. Methot was hurt. Ceci, Gryba, Boro and Phillips all struggled heavily. Cowen provided stability.

That is my point exactly that he has the ability to perform to a higher standard. The only reason I point out his good stretch compared to others is because of the unbelievable hate-on that this board has for the guy. I'm honestly shocked that there hasn't been a thread where you guys could congregate on when to assault his domain with pitchforks and torches.

The fact that people are still using his play in the later part of the season as their prime counter-argument is laughable. Yeah, I can imagine that playing professional hockey with a sports hernia would have a pretty substantial impact on your ENTIRE game, not just physically. And even when Cowen was playing poor in January/February, he was still on par with the rest of our D-corps because that is how bad our core has been at times.

My entire point is this: Cowen needs to stop being the scapegoat for fans and this team's defensive woes. Play him on the bottom-pairing this season and I guarantee he will out perform either one of Gryba or Boro when given the same role. No doubts or questions in my mind.

But hey, what do I know? If you'd like and have access to the games, I would love for people to actually go back to November/December and watch a few games and see how Cowen compared to the rest of the blue-line.

 

[FlyingJ]

I'm not making claim that Jared Cowen is even a 2nd pairing defenseman right now. He's not. But my point stands that he was better than everyone not named "Erik Karlsson" on the blue-line for that portion of the season. Methot was hurt. Ceci, Gryba, Boro and Phillips all struggled heavily. Cowen provided stability.

That is my point exactly that he has the ability to perform to a higher standard. The only reason I point out his good stretch compared to others is because of the unbelievable hate-on that this board has for the guy. I'm honestly shocked that there hasn't been a thread where you guys could congregate on when to assault his domain with pitchforks and torches.

The fact that people are still using his play in the later part of the season as their prime counter-argument is laughable. Yeah, I can imagine that playing professional hockey with a sports hernia would have a pretty substantial impact on your ENTIRE game, not just physically. And even when Cowen was playing poor in January/February, he was still on par with the rest of our D-corps because that is how bad our core has been at times.

My entire point is this: Cowen needs to stop being the scapegoat for fans and this team's defensive woes. Play him on the bottom-pairing this season and I guarantee he will out perform either one of Gryba or Boro when given the same role. No doubts or questions in my mind.

But hey, what do I know? If you'd like and have access to the games, I would love for people to actually go back to November/December and watch a few games and see how Cowen compared to the rest of the blue-line.

So this warrants keeping him and his $3.1 million cap hit ($3.7M in actual salary next season) on a budget team with plenty of mediocre contracts already?

And no, I'll completely disagree. Cowen at his best this season was not clearly better than Ceci or Borowiecki. And heck, I'd argue Gryba at his best wasn't that far behind Cowen's best. And even if he were, by your own admission, Ottawa's D was not good. So why keep him, even in a 3rd pairing role, when Borowiecki is just as good, if not better, far more affordable, and fills the hitting and fighting role?

The reason fans are upset with this guy is he makes defensive blunders as well as being a top 10 pick in his draft year, which has gotten him no shortage of rope from management and coaching (moreso under MacLean). If Jared Cowen were even a 2nd round pick, would the Sens have this amount of patience with him? I highly doubt it.

And go figure, Cowen's suspension and then hernia coincided with the team making the playoffs. That run was ridiculous, but having the likes of Cowen, Phillips, and Neil in the pressbox for it definitely helped.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Look, I understand that you like the guy, and want to show patience because he does have a great tool set, and the potential is there, but the end result is we have a young Dman that is 155th out of 164 D with 1500 + mins league wide over the last two years in goals against per 60 mins. He's done that in spite of Ottawa being 7th league wide in ES sv% over the same period. He adds little to no offense, so not much more than preventing goals is expected of him.

You bring up a good point about QOC potentially being the culprit, however, Ottawa doesn't exactly lean heavily on one pair like Nashville or even Toronto does, as they rather to spread out the starts more evenly, so rankings aren't telling the whole story.

QoC is simply not going to be the difference you think it is; let break down what those numbers are actually saying. Cowen, who has the Corsi Rel QoC with a .487 is deployed against competition that on average is +.487 shot attempts per 60 mins relative to it's team. The lowest ranked Rel Corsi QoC D on Ottawa (Phillips) sees competition that gets + .123 shot attemps per 60 rel to their team. That means relative to the lowest ranked Ottawa D, Cowen sees opposition that gets .364 more shot attempts per 60 mins relative to their own team. So, given that Cowen averages 15.21 mins a game, he'll exoect to see an extra shot attempt once every 10 games compared to Phillips (.364/60*15.21 = .0923 per game) based solely on competition.

The truth is Cowen is not getting brutal mins. They are certainly not soft mins, but he's not getting abnormally tough ones either. He has not been doing a good job of repressing shot attempts, nor repressing goals against.

Here's a dubious list he was top 10 in; GA/60 for D with rel Corsi QoC >.4, 38+ games, and 15 + mins per 60. He's 6th out of 99 surrounded by players from Toronto, Buffalo, and Edmonton.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...5v5&f4=D&f7=38&f13=.4&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+36

Thank you for summing up some things i was trying to say. Great post. Cowen certainly has to improve

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Because having a sports hernia had nothing to do with it, right?

he was scratched under maclean. This apparently was somithing that pissed off murray because despite Cowen sucking murray wanted maclean to play cowen through his struggles.

Wier is no savior but hes better then cowen

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I swear, Ottawa has the worst fanbase for throwing away our kids. If it isn't undervaluing our guys, it's putting them in every trade proposal imaginable.

We should be trying to do everything possible to get the best out of Cowen, Weir and Lehner.....and then sit back and enjoy watching them play for our Sens for the next decade.

What kids has ottawa thrown away in the past that sens fans demanded traded? In general this team hasnt traded many young players exept for Ryan and some people were mad about that

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Yeah. And Cowen was one of our best blue-liners for a good 15-20 games in that 1st third of the season.

The timeline makes a whole lot of sense given that management confirmed he was playing with the injury for a few weeks. It lines up right with where he dropped off again.

I'm surprised that so many people either choose to ignore or just didn't notice how Cowen was playing earlier in the season. I honestly believe that some people were still in a bad mood about how awful Cowen was in the 2013-14 campaign and he wasn't much better in the first few games on this past season either. He was written off and I think people convinced themselves to ignore his good play prior to his injury.

Obviously, we won't know how he's going to do from this point out. It's been debated about as much as it can. I think he's going to be just fine in the future.

It wasnt 15 games it was 5-10 and its been shown Ceci got worse once he was paired with Cowen

Cowen was healthy scratched very early in the season and maclean did this against murray because murray wanted cowen to play despite sucking.

I mean Cowen is bottom of the league in GA/60 for awhile now. He must of really sucked outside those 20 games he played well in because he certainly made up for them with porr play

 

[Back in Black]

How about that Weircioch kid!

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I'm not making claim that Jared Cowen is even a 2nd pairing defenseman right now. He's not. But my point stands that he was better than everyone not named "Erik Karlsson" on the blue-line for that portion of the season. Methot was hurt. Ceci, Gryba, Boro and Phillips all struggled heavily. Cowen provided stability.

That is my point exactly that he has the ability to perform to a higher standard. The only reason I point out his good stretch compared to others is because of the unbelievable hate-on that this board has for the guy. I'm honestly shocked that there hasn't been a thread where you guys could congregate on when to assault his domain with pitchforks and torches.

The fact that people are still using his play in the later part of the season as their prime counter-argument is laughable. Yeah, I can imagine that playing professional hockey with a sports hernia would have a pretty substantial impact on your ENTIRE game, not just physically. And even when Cowen was playing poor in January/February, he was still on par with the rest of our D-corps because that is how bad our core has been at times.

My entire point is this: Cowen needs to stop being the scapegoat for fans and this team's defensive woes. Play him on the bottom-pairing this season and I guarantee he will out perform either one of Gryba or Boro when given the same role. No doubts or questions in my mind.

But hey, what do I know? If you'd like and have access to the games, I would love for people to actually go back to November/December and watch a few games and see how Cowen compared to the rest of the blue-line.

Don't get too worked up, this is the same board that had packed and put Weircoich on the bus just days before the streak started!!!

It seems to happen to every young prospect, there was the Zibanejad is a bust period, Stone was potentially injury prone and his skating would keep him from the NHL, Hoffman was a career AHLer, Lehner went from future superstar to headcase and trade bait, and now there are rumblings Lazar is less than expected and maybe should be traded.

Can you just imagine where this team would be if Murray took all the free advice offered here.

Of course I should have mention that the team was doomed group after Tim left the club.

 

[HSF]

wait if we waited this long for weir to develop and some believe here he is breaking out now shouldnt that developmental period argument be used for cowen?

he is 1 year younger

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

So this warrants keeping him and his $3.1 million cap hit ($3.7M in actual salary next season) on a budget team with plenty of mediocre contracts already?

And him getting his contract is his fault how?

And no, I'll completely disagree. Cowen at his best this season was not clearly better than Ceci or Borowiecki. And heck, I'd argue Gryba at his best wasn't that far behind Cowen's best. And even if he were, by your own admission, Ottawa's D was not good. So why keep him, even in a 3rd pairing role, when Borowiecki is just as good, if not better, far more affordable, and fills the hitting and fighting role?

Ceci struggled this year with or without Cowen. Boro brings grit and all the nasty stuff but to say he is a better defenceman than Cowen is pretty far fetched. Have you not watched any of the games where he was playing in the bottom pairing being hemmed in the defensive zone for the majority of his shift?

The reason fans are upset with this guy is he makes defensive blunders as well as being a top 10 pick in his draft year, which has gotten him no shortage of rope from management and coaching (moreso under MacLean). If Jared Cowen were even a 2nd round pick, would the Sens have this amount of patience with him? I highly doubt it.

Every single defencemen out there makes blunders. The reason he gets more crap from fans more so than other players probably has a lot to do with your initial point about his contract.

You think just because of his draft pedigree alone that he gets a much longer leash? Or maybe because he has actually shown that he has the ability to mould into the type of player a top 10 pick is projected to be?

And go figure, Cowen's suspension and then hernia coincided with the team making the playoffs. That run was ridiculous, but having the likes of Cowen, Phillips, and Neil in the pressbox for it definitely helped.

The ENTIRE TEAM played great hockey for the most part as a collective unit and coincidentally Hammond played like a god when he was out but let me guess it was due to Cowen being out of the line up?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

It wasnt 15 games it was 5-10 and its been shown Ceci got worse once he was paired with Cowen

Cowen was healthy scratched very early in the season and maclean did this against murray because murray wanted cowen to play despite sucking.

I mean Cowen is bottom of the league in GA/60 for awhile now. He must of really sucked outside those 20 games he played well in because he certainly made up for them with porr play

Ceci struggled on and off all year and it had nothing to do with Cowen.

Nothing to be alarmed about, another young player just finding his way in the NHL.

However Vesa, you should know better than to quote a statistic that is marginally better than plus/minus.

I believe Cowen was something like -10 playing with EK early in the year, then ended up -1 over the rest of his games played (ended -11).

IMO Cowen should never have been paired with EK because he just isn't ready for top pairing time and because EK has the second highest GA On/60 on the D.

Where EK has the opportunity and offensive ability to normalize some of these statistics, a player like Cowen just can't recover.

Fact is a good player playing consistently with bad players will get hammered by Corsi, (Cowen had the lowest Rel QOT) while a good player playing with good ones will get a boost (Karlsson has the highest Rel QOT).

There is nothing shocking or unfair about these individual statistics, it is the way it must be for the Senators to succeed.

However it is is a massive flaw in the way Corsi is generally used and the experts agree and are looking for solutuions.

So this isn't to defend Cowen, I would be the first to say he needs to be better, but using relatively meaningless singular stats in isolation knowing how Corsi works is less than fair IMO.

 

[Tee Lo]

The ENTIRE TEAM played great hockey for the most part as a collective unit and coincidentally Hammond played like a god when he was out but let me guess it was due to Cowen being out of the line up?

Does that amazing run happen though; if Cowen, Phillips, Neil, and Smith are playing?

In my opinion, no it does not happen.

Cowen - Ceci was awful.

Wier - Ceci was actually pretty good.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Does that amazing run happen though; if Cowen, Phillips, Neil, and Smith are playing?

In my opinion, no it does not happen.

Cowen - Ceci was awful.

Wier - Ceci was actually pretty good.

Cowen - Ceci was a good pairing for a good stretch and wasn't so good for another strech. Same thing applied to the Wier - Ceci pairing. Inconsistency is evident in both pairings and that's due to inexperience and age.

Does Hammond play lights out with those 3 in the lineup? Who knows but none of the defencemen played perfect hockey throughout that run. When you are winning you tend to focus more on the good things than to micro examine everything else when the team isn't playing so well.