Patrick Wiercioch

[Othello*]

Have any of you guys watched much of Rundblad this year?

His stats suggest he had an ok year and it was really the first time he's gotten a decent stretch of games. He's only 24 and has put up really good numbers in the A, so maybe there's still something there

He was pretty awful against the Ducks in game 1

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He was pretty awful against the Ducks in game 1

Hmm, ya I don't know if I've watched a single Blackhawks game this year...

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Have any of you guys watched much of Rundblad this year?

His stats suggest he had an ok year and it was really the first time he's gotten a decent stretch of games. He's only 24 and has put up really good numbers in the A, so maybe there's still something there

I watched him be bad in his first game back in the playoffs after quite a playoffs

I think i remember watching him in a game he scored a goal and he was good. I want to say i watched him play well in Chicago the only time i really watched Chicago.

Question...Why does Cowen get a break and Rundblad doesnt? He's only played in NA 3 years.

 

[Sun God Nika]

I watched him be bad in his first game back in the playoffs after quite a playoffs

I think i remember watching him in a game he scored a goal and he was good. I want to say i watched him play well in Chicago the only time i really watched Chicago.

Question...Why does Cowen get a break and Rundblad doesnt? He's only played in NA 3 years.

Theres people that are convinced Cowens a bust, and believe Rundblad will bloom soon.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Rundblad is terrible. He was terrible here. He was terrible in Phoenix. He was terrible in the AHL. And...spoiler alert...he's going to continue to terrible in Chicago.

He can't play D. At all.

He wishes he was Jared Cowen good.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Rundblad is terrible. He was terrible here. He was terrible in Phoenix. He was terrible in the AHL. And...spoiler alert...he's going to continue to terrible in Chicago.

He can't play D. At all.

He wishes he was Jared Cowen good.

He was good in the ahl. Pretty impressive numbers


I almost feels hes done basically the same thing as Cowen except cowen is forunate enough to be locked up on a high paying contract. Could easily of seen Cowen sent to the AHL last year and this year if he didnt have his contract

I mean literally everyoine gets worse with Cowen and Cowen adanvced stats wise is usually second worse in defensive stats like corsi and scoring chances against. If he didnt play with karlsson he'd also be 2nd worst is corsi for.

Cowen also managed to have over a goal a game against well hes on the ice. Seems like a rare feat for a dman that doesnt play top pairing

 

[BonkTastic]

Have any of you guys watched much of Rundblad this year?

Probably 15-20 games of Rundblad this season (my only hockey-loving friend here in Indonesia is a Hawks fan, so we watched a lot of eachother's games).

Rundblad was a product of his environment this year in Chicago. He's never been a bad offensive player, that's not where the criticism comes from. He was supremely micro-managed in his time this year.

1) He is a turnover machine - literally, he seems like he was built to turn the puck over. He is excellent at it. Possibly his best hockey skill at the moment.
2) His skating is still bad. It looks like it hasn't improved from the day he arrived in Ottawa. He is a poor skating, turnover machine. There's not much you can do to make up for those two flaws in today's NHL.
3) he still has no idea what to do in his own zone. I mean... I'm sure he's worked on it. There's no doubt in my mind that he knows he needs to be better. Like, if he had to write a test about playing acceptable defensive hockey, on paper, he'd probably pass... but the brain and the body are not cooperating as far as the on-ice application is concerned. As a result, the Blackhawks tried their hardest to keep him out of that part of the ice this year, with some success. You can't play that kind of hockey in the playoffs though, especially against elite teams.


There is a reason he was a healthy scratch so much this year... and he's going to be a healthy scratch again, as Kyle Cumiskey is replacing Rundblad in the lineup for Game 2 vs the Ducks. Kyle Cumiskey. Even with a depleted and injured blueline, and despite the fact that he only played limited minutes, and despite the fact that Timmonen played only something like 6 minutes in Game 1, they are scratching him again.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

PW spent all last summer in the gym, not sure it really helped him as much as I had hoped.

I don't believe he is as weak physically as it appears, he just doesn't seem to have the mental makeup to exert himself physically when necessary.

IMO the skill is there, yes he does need to improve his quickness, but unless he ups his competitive level he likely won't reach his full potential.

It's always been strange to me. A guy gets far enough to make it to the NHL, but somehow has little or no compete level. How the "Greenings" of the hockey world get that far to begin with is a mystery.

 

[BonkTastic]

He was good in the ahl. Pretty impressive numbers

You could say the same thing about Nigel Dawes.

 

[BonkTastic]

I don't think you can reasonably compare anything that Cowen does to anything that Rundblad does, as far as what is expected of them/ style/ skill/ body type/ background/ movie preferences/ opinions on metaphysics is concerned.

I mean, "two struggling players"... sure, that comparison works, if you want to talk in generalities. Otherwise, they are about as different as two hockey players could be.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

You could say the same thing about Nigel Dawes.

ya i know. he said he was bad in the AHL though.

OT
I think Nigel Dawes could of easily could of had an NHL career along with Dustin Boyd

Dawes was on pace for around 35 point and around 20 goals multiple seasons

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Probably 15-20 games of Rundblad this season (my only hockey-loving friend here in Indonesia is a Hawks fan, so we watched a lot of eachother's games).

Rundblad was a product of his environment this year in Chicago. He's never been a bad offensive player, that's not where the criticism comes from. He was supremely micro-managed in his time this year.

1) He is a turnover machine - literally, he seems like he was built to turn the puck over. He is excellent at it. Possibly his best hockey skill at the moment.
2) His skating is still bad. It looks like it hasn't improved from the day he arrived in Ottawa. He is a poor skating, turnover machine. There's not much you can do to make up for those two flaws in today's NHL.
3) he still has no idea what to do in his own zone. As a result, the Blackhawks tried their hardest to keep him out of that part of the ice this year, with some success. You can't play that kind of hockey in the playoffs though, especially against elite teams.


There is a reason he was a healthy scratch so much this year... and he's going to be a healthy scratch again, as Kyle Cumiskey is replacing Rundblad in the lineup for Game 2 vs the Ducks. Kyle Cumiskey. Even with a depleted and injured blueline, and despite the fact that he only played limited minutes, and despite the fact that Timmonen played only something like 6 minutes in Game 1, they are scratching him again.

This is about the response I was expecting. His numbers look good, particularly in Portland, but i was thinking he likely doesn't pass the eye test (kind of like Wier). I guess I thought maybe he made the necessary adjustments and was coming around but that doesn't sound fixable.

I remember cursing when I saw the Turris trade... What a robbery in hindsight.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I don't think you can reasonably compare anything that Cowen does to anything that Rundblad does, as far as what is expected of them is concerned.

I mean, "two struggling players"... sure, that comparison works, if you want to talk in generalities. Otherwise, they are about as different as two hockey players could be.

I'm just saying. The advanced stats say Cowen is our worst dman next to phillips. I think Rundblad could be our 2nd worst dman next to phillips

My eye test also says Cowen is bad.. I mean Rundblad has a poor rep for defensive play but when Cowen is on the ice teams get more chances and more shot attempts at our net. Like i said Cowen also averaged over a goal a game too. That doesnt seem common for non top pairing dmen


Both arent good but both arent similar players. I wasnt trying to say they were similar

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I watched him be bad in his first game back in the playoffs after quite a playoffs

I think i remember watching him in a game he scored a goal and he was good. I want to say i watched him play well in Chicago the only time i really watched Chicago.

Question...Why does Cowen get a break and Rundblad doesnt? He's only played in NA 3 years.

Does Cowen get a break?

Seems like the believers are few and far between these days. I'm finally on the doubt train at this point, same with Lehner.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'm just saying. The advanced stats say Cowen is our worst dman next to phillips. I think Rundblad could be our 2nd worst dman next to phillips

My eye test also says Cowen is bad.. I mean Rundblad has a poor rep for defensive play but when Cowen is on the ice teams get more chances and more shot attempts at our net. Like i said Cowen also averaged over a goal a game too. That doesnt seem common for non top pairing dmen

No kidding. Cowens strength is supposed to be his defensive game and yet that's the part that's the real problem. There's been a couple games the past 2 years where he looked absolutely lost on the ice.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Does Cowen get a break?

Seems like the believers are few and far between these days. I'm finally on the doubt train at this point, same with Lehner.

Not as much but if i had to put a number on 50/50 at most or 75/25

 

[BonkTastic]

I'm just saying. The advanced stats say Cowen is our worst dman next to phillips. I think Rundblad could be our 2nd worst dman next to phillips

Haha, ok, fair enough. I get that.

My eye test also says Cowen is bad.. I mean Rundblad has a poor rep for defensive play but when Cowen is on the ice teams get more chances and more shot attempts at our net. Like i said Cowen also averaged over a goal a game too. That doesnt seem common for non top pairing dmen

I think the main difference when I look at Cowen and look at Rundblad is when I see Cowen play crap hockey, he looks broken. He looks like he's labouring out there, like he's struggling, like he's trying to compensate for something. Like he's frustrated.

When Rundblad plays crap hockey, he just looks like a guy who legitimately has no awareness of his faults. Either that, or he knows he can't do anything about them, so he doesn't let it get to him.

I don't know... I suppose it just depends on what you think is more "fixable". Cowen seems like a guy who is trying to change but not being very successful at it thus far, and Rundblad seems like a guy who just... won't change, for whatever reason. To each their own on that one, I guess. Pick your poison - Personally, I think "fixing" Cowen at this stage is the more likely of the two scenarios, but YMMV. Also: that's a hell of a low bar to set, haha.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Haha, ok, fair enough. I get that.



I think the main difference when I look at Cowen and look at Rundblad is when I see Cowen play crap hockey, he looks broken. He looks like he's labouring out there, like he's struggling, like he's trying to compensate for something. Like he's frustrated.

When Rundblad plays crap hockey, he just looks like a guy who legitimately has no awareness of his faults. Either that, or he knows he can't do anything about them, so he doesn't let it get to him.

I don't know... I suppose it just depends on what you think is more "fixable". Cowen seems like a guy who is trying to change but not being very successful at it thus far, and Rundblad seems like a guy who just... won't change, for whatever reason. To each their own on that one, I guess. Pick your poison - Personally, I think "fixing" Cowen at this stage is the more likely of the two scenarios, but YMMV. Also: that's a hell of a low bar to set, haha.

Bryan Murray on Cowen

He wants to be good.

lol ya but i think Cowen still might figure it out myself. Just wouldnt bet on it.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm just saying. The advanced stats say Cowen is our worst dman next to phillips. I think Rundblad could be our 2nd worst dman next to phillips

My eye test also says Cowen is bad.. I mean Rundblad has a poor rep for defensive play but when Cowen is on the ice teams get more chances and more shot attempts at our net. Like i said Cowen also averaged over a goal a game too. That doesnt seem common for non top pairing dmen


Both arent good but both arent similar players. I wasnt trying to say they were similar

To be fair, the two players have seen drastically different deployment.

SEASON NAME | GP | TOI/60 | Corsi Rel QoC | Corsi QoC | +- QoC | Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season DAVIDRUNDBLAD | 8 | 9.62 | -1.11 | -6.538 | -0.083 | 74.3
2014-2015 Season DAVIDRUNDBLAD | 49 | 11.98 | -1.071 | -1.872 | -0.132 | 68.8
2013-2014 Season DAVIDRUNDBLAD | 17 | 12.25 | -0.422 | -0.869 | -0.126 | 56.6
2012-2013 Season JAREDCOWEN | 7 | 16.31 | 0.052 | -2.837 | 0.011 | 62.2
2013-2014 Season JAREDCOWEN | 68 | 16.64 | 0.462 | -0.081 | 0.002 | 49.9
2014-2015 Season JAREDCOWEN | 54 | 15.21 | 0.487 | 0.071 | -0.011 | 45.8

That's the kind of deployment that would make Wiercioch blush. While I won't say that this in any way proves one to be better than the other, I will say that kind of disparity makes it extremely difficult to get a read via eye test or stats.

I mean, you suggest that Rundblad would be our 2nd worst dman next to Phillips if he were here, but maybe if Cowen had those charmin kitten soft minutes, he'd pass your eye test, and improve his fancy stat numbers.

I'm not really a fan of either right now, we've got a crowded blue line as it is, but if I had to bet on which guy will have a longer career, I'd begrudgingly lean towards Cowen. It's a shame how his career has gone, because I was a big fan when we drafted him. Here's hoping he turns things around.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I watched him be bad in his first game back in the playoffs after quite a playoffs

I think i remember watching him in a game he scored a goal and he was good. I want to say i watched him play well in Chicago the only time i really watched Chicago.

Question...Why does Cowen get a break and Rundblad doesnt? He's only played in NA 3 years.

When did Cowen ever get a break from HFSens? Outside of a few posters, he gets torched by this fan base with you leading the charge.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

When did Cowen ever get a break from HFSens? Outside of a few posters, he gets torched by this fan base with you leading the charge.

A long time.... people supported Cowen. I was just one of the first to say this guy can't pass and his timing is not at a NHL level. I was roasted for it and people told me he was dealing with an injury or confidence and he hadnt played enough games.

Cowen has had breaks to the point people didnt want to admit he was playing bad

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

A long time.... people supported Cowen. I was just one of the first to say this guy can't pass and his timing is not at a NHL level. I was roasted for it and people told me he was dealing with an injury or confidence and he hadnt played enough games.

Cowen has had breaks to the point people didnt want to admit he was playing bad

Him performing badly would hold true for anybody who comes back from injury would it not?

The majority of people here want him gone lets not kid ourselves. He get's no break around here.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Him performing badly would hold true for anybody who comes back from injury would it not?

The majority of people here want him gone lets not kid ourselves. He get's no break around here.

No...not for a whole year that includes a training camp and preseason. I really think he gets more breaks then any other player and has been treated very fairly by the fanbase the last 2 years. Even now he has more supporters then doubters or at least thats how it seems

If Cowen didnt have the hype of the draft pedigree he wouldnt get the breaks he does

 

[Micklebot]

No...not for a whole year that includes a training camp and preseason. I really think he gets more breaks then any other player and has been treated very fairly by the fanbase the last 2 years. Even now he has more supporters then doubters or at least thats how it seems

If Cowen didnt have the hype of the draft pedigree he wouldnt get the breaks he does

To be fair, I think most people are giving him a bit more time because of a number of factors.

- Big men tend to take longer to develop
- Dmen can take longer.
- Injuries have slowed his development.
- He hasn't had veteran support, and has been thrust into too great a role too soon.
- He has a very good toolbox; Heavy shot, Physical, was a good skater, though injuries seem to have limited that asset.

To me, he'd be a great reclamation project for a team with room on the backend in need of a bottom pair LD that has a solid vet RD. We just aren't that team right now.

 

[BondraTime]

To be fair, I think most people are giving him a bit more time because of a number of factors.

- Big men tend to take longer to develop
- Dmen can take longer.
- Injuries have slowed his development.
- He hasn't had veteran support, and has been thrust into too great a role too soon.
- He has a very good toolbox; Heavy shot, Physical, was a good skater, though injuries seem to have limited that asset.

To me, he'd be a great reclamation project for a team with room on the backend in need of a bottom pair LD that has a solid vet RD. We just aren't that team right now.

Agreed. He is going to be a top 4 guy, I almost guarantee it. It won't be with the Sens unfortunately.

Still unsure why he was never played on the bottom pairing. Give him Gryba's responsibilities, handedness be damned.