Confirmed Trade: Part 2:[OTT/SJ] Erik Karlsson and Francis Perron for Tierney, DeMelo, Norris, Balcers, 1st, 2nd

[HoweHullOrr]

Idk how this keeps coming up..

I'm out of here. The things I put in my post are info (facts) posted by TSN.

If you don't like (can't read & comprehend) the TSN article, here's another one (CBS Sports):

In exchange for Karlsson and Francis Perron, the Sharks will send a first-round pick in 2020, a second-round pick in 2019, Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris and Rudolfs Balcers to Ottawa in the deal. There are also two conditional picks involved in the deal.

Notice the word "also" meaning these are in addition to the 1st and 2nd round picks they are definitely getting (in the bank so to speak).

Ottawa Senators trade Erik Karlsson to the San Jose Sharks for draft picks, four players

 

[Intact]

I still can't get over the fact I'll be seeing EK in teal for an NHL game in a few weeks. Amazing.

Whatever you think of Ottawa's return, it must have been the best offer made by any western conference team. We can debate the timing of the trade, and Melnyk's penny-pinching ways, and Dorion's competence, but that essential point remains.

Don't get me wrong. I'm delighted the Sharks were able to acquire Karlsson for such a modest return, but all of you claiming "lololololol, worst trade evah!!!" need to ask yourself why Dallas, Vegas, etc. didn't make a better offer.

It's actually impossible to describe the economics of the NHL trade market to the general public. Every real hockey person knew the return was going to be garbage for Karlsson at this stage. THE SENS DID NOT HAVE KEEP KARLSSON AS AN OPTION. It's a really simple concept.

The major mistake that Ottawa DID make was that they didnt trade him last year or last deadline. You can find a ton of content on that from that time period

 

[KPower]

One year of Karlsson does the Sens absolutely nothing.

Well why not sign him for 8 years?

He loves Ottawa.

 

[Osprey]

If Ottawa had done something like Dallas' media department did for Seguin yesterday, it might've looked like this:

 

[uncleben]

worst trade in the history of mankind

I can think of several worse deals...

I mean, if we want to play this game, your franchise (as Atlanta) made worse deals getting rid of both Kovalchuk and Hossa, but comparing this trade to the past only gets you so far anyway.

Look at the reality of the situation now and the players returned, in isolation.
Two roster players under 25 (one legit, the other more depth), a D+1 first round, a rising B prospect, a guaranteed first, a guaranteed second, and potentially 1-2 more firsts.
And for a player who was publicly disgruntled with mgmt and with fellow teammates, who was looking like he would walk if not traded.

It's really not that terrible.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Well why not sign him for 8 years?

He loves Ottawa.

Simple answer = Melnyk.

 

[Bedards Dad]

Only to lose in Round 1.

Also irrelevant in the big picture?

Experience gained.

Anyways this isn't a Leafs thread. So worry more about your team (sorry about your team) and less about the fastest rising team in the league.

 

[NyQuil]

Experience gained.

Anyways this isn't a Leafs thread. So worry more about your team (sorry about your team) and less about the fastest rising team in the league.

It wasn't until a Leafs fan showed up talking about Auston Matthews.

We were having a perfectly relevant conversation before that.

 

[Bedards Dad]

I can think of several worse deals...

I mean, if we want to play this game, your franchise (as Atlanta) made worse deals getting rid of both Kovalchuk and Hossa, but comparing this trade to the past only gets you so far anyway.

Look at the reality of the situation now and the players returned, in isolation.
Two roster players under 25 (one legit, the other more depth), a D+1 first round, a rising B prospect, a guaranteed first, a guaranteed second, and potentially 1-2 more firsts.
And for a player who was publicly disgruntled with mgmt and with fellow teammates, who was looking like he would walk if not traded.

It's really not that terrible.

It's still terrible, but they likely didnt have a choice. Although it seems ownership may have botched a better deal at the draft, which has to sting.

 

[KnockHobbler]

I'm the only Sens fan not outraged.

Karlsson had his worst year since his rookie season, he's had a few major injuries and we've yet to see him bounce back this time. Ottawa has had Karlsson at the best he'll ever be.

He had one year left on his deal, and we knew we had to trade him for a while now. Ottawa wouldn't want to put him in the same division.

Despite all that they still got a couple high picks and a top prospect.
Couldve, should've, would've gotten more, whatever. It's better that it's over now. This upcoming season is a write off, let the kids play and try and not let the lack of a first rounder depress you too much. Then go from there.

Still have Chabot, Brown, Ktchuck, and white. Now they have Norris. Won't be easy, but even if Karlsson stayed the team was doomed for mediocrity for a while anyway. Scorch the earth, start over

 

[Bedards Dad]

It wasn't until a Leafs fan showed up talking about Auston Matthews.

We were having a perfectly relevant conversation before that.

So let's get back to that, it was a really bad trade. Melnyk and Dorion need to go for the sens to have any hope of moving forward.

 

[NyQuil]

So let's get back to that, it was a really bad trade. Melnyk and Dorion need to go for the sens to have any hope of moving forward.

Yes indeed.

 

[TeamRenzo]

It's actually impossible to describe the economics of the NHL trade market to the general public. Every real hockey person knew the return was going to be garbage for Karlsson at this stage. THE SENS DID NOT HAVE KEEP KARLSSON AS AN OPTION. It's a really simple concept.

The major mistake that Ottawa DID make was that they didnt trade him last year or last deadline. You can find a ton of content on that from that time period

And that is the crux of Sens fans angst, PD held out for a worse package. We knew he wasnt going to stay in Ottawa under the current ownership however the trade made yesterday was not what we were expecting.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

It's actually impossible to describe the economics of the NHL trade market to the general public. Every real hockey person knew the return was going to be garbage for Karlsson at this stage. THE SENS DID NOT HAVE KEEP KARLSSON AS AN OPTION. It's a really simple concept.

The major mistake that Ottawa DID make was that they didnt trade him last year or last deadline. You can find a ton of content on that from that time period

Nobody knew the return would be anywhere near this garbage. Nobody knew the best piece in the return for Erik Karlsson would be Rudolfs Balcers.

The return wouldn’t be that bad if Chris Tierney had been replaced with Timo Meier. That’s the kind of package I was realistically expecting to see. The quantity part makes sense but I was expecting the quality at the very top to be a lot higher than Rudolfs Balcers.

 

[Hunter368]

I can think of several worse deals...

I mean, if we want to play this game, your franchise (as Atlanta) made worse deals getting rid of both Kovalchuk and Hossa, but comparing this trade to the past only gets you so far anyway.

Look at the reality of the situation now and the players returned, in isolation.
Two roster players under 25 (one legit, the other more depth), a D+1 first round, a rising B prospect, a guaranteed first, a guaranteed second, and potentially 1-2 more firsts.
And for a player who was publicly disgruntled with mgmt and with fellow teammates, who was looking like he would walk if not traded.

It's really not that terrible.

Agreed

I think what’s throwing people off was they assumed he would return one big sexy young piece plus. GM’s just don’t trade those guys for a unsigned ufa player. In reality he returned a nice package of young cost controlled futures considering he’s a unsigned ufa.

 

[CupInSIX]

Read the trade info a little more carefully. They did NOT receive just "conditional" picks.

The unconditional picks that the Senators received are:

1. 1st round pick in 2020 (this one is already in the bank)
2. 2nd round pick (this one is also in the bank).

The conditional picks (the ones you seem to have latched on to) are:

• 2nd round pick if he re signs with San Jose.
• 1st round pick if the Sharks reach the Stanley cup finals in 2019

In addition to the picks, they also received:

1. Prospects - Norris & Balcer
2. Player - Demelo.

I'm not trying to defend the trade or say that is was great. However, why do people misrepresent the facts when the info is out there and can so easily be found and back-checked? Odd thing to do.

Idk how this keeps coming up... the real conditions are:

• 2nd round pick if he re signs with San Jose, and that will be upgraded to a 1st if SJS reaches the Stanley Cup final in 2019
• 1st round pick if Karlsson is on any Eastern Conference team's reserve list at any point this season

That's to say, if SJS reaches the final BUT doesn't re-sign EK, there is no pick exchanged
AND, in theory, they can re-sign EK, but then trade him to another team (for some bizarre reason), win the Cup without EK and potentially have to give up two first rounders

You guys missed what I was saying completely. I'm saying they should have based the deal around multiple conditional 1st round picks, in addition to a 2020 1st.

And not awful conditions like an extra 2nd if he re-signs or a 1st if they go to the cup finals.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I can think of several worse deals...

I mean, if we want to play this game, your franchise (as Atlanta) made worse deals getting rid of both Kovalchuk and Hossa, but comparing this trade to the past only gets you so far anyway.

Look at the reality of the situation now and the players returned, in isolation.
Two roster players under 25 (one legit, the other more depth), a D+1 first round, a rising B prospect, a guaranteed first, a guaranteed second, and potentially 1-2 more firsts.
And for a player who was publicly disgruntled with mgmt and with fellow teammates, who was looking like he would walk if not traded.

It's really not that terrible.

Agreed

I think what’s throwing people off was they assumed he would return one big sexy young piece plus. GM’s just don’t trade those guys for a unsigned ufa player. In reality he returned a nice package of young cost controlled futures considering he’s a unsigned ufa.

Agreed with the 2 posts copied above. Senators backed themselves into a corner when Melnyk talked about spending too much money on salaries just before the winter classic.

 

[NyQuil]

I'm the only Sens fan not outraged.

Karlsson had his worst year since his rookie season, he's had a few major injuries and we've yet to see him bounce back this time. Ottawa has had Karlsson at the best he'll ever be.

He had one year left on his deal, and we knew we had to trade him for a while now. Ottawa wouldn't want to put him in the same division.

Despite all that they still got a couple high picks and a top prospect.
Couldve, should've, would've gotten more, whatever. It's better that it's over now. This upcoming season is a write off, let the kids play and try and not let the lack of a first rounder depress you too much. Then go from there.

Still have Chabot, Brown, Ktchuck, and white. Now they have Norris. Won't be easy, but even if Karlsson stayed the team was doomed for mediocrity for a while anyway. Scorch the earth, start over

Let's be clear here.

Not all Senators fans were against a rebuild or unaware of the risks of signing Erik Karlsson long-term.

It's how it was conducted.

You think just getting over it is enough. Other Sens fans don't.

If this re-build is going to work, they have to make the most of EVERY deal going forward.

When they announce that "this is the most important deal in the re-build" and we've barely heard of any of the returning players, there's a discrepancy there.

The part I don't get is, if you're re-building anyway, who cares what division he's in? In fact, don't you want to lose those games anyway to get better picks and potentially higher prospects?

It makes you wonder if there are other concerns aside from maximizing the return - like not humiliating the GM or owner by having him compete directly against your own team, or not paying Karlsson his salary this year.

 

[DFC]

I'm the only Sens fan not outraged.

Karlsson had his worst year since his rookie season, he's had a few major injuries and we've yet to see him bounce back this time. Ottawa has had Karlsson at the best he'll ever be.

He had one year left on his deal, and we knew we had to trade him for a while now. Ottawa wouldn't want to put him in the same division.

Despite all that they still got a couple high picks and a top prospect.
Couldve, should've, would've gotten more, whatever. It's better that it's over now. This upcoming season is a write off, let the kids play and try and not let the lack of a first rounder depress you too much. Then go from there.

Still have Chabot, Brown, Ktchuck, and white. Now they have Norris. Won't be easy, but even if Karlsson stayed the team was doomed for mediocrity for a while anyway. Scorch the earth, start over

I think you have to give Karlsson a liiiiittle bit of the benefit of the doubt here, when you consider what was going on in his personal life.

 

[Seras]

All the comparisons to Tavares are wayyyy off. Tavares had no contract while EK has a year left. Apples and oranges

 

[uncleben]

You guys missed what I was saying completely. I'm saying they should have based the deal around multiple conditional 1st round picks, in addition to a 2020 1st.

And not awful conditions like an extra 2nd if he re-signs or a 1st if they go to the cup finals.

And I think you missed what I was saying.

It is structured around multiple cond. first.
The conditions in the post I replied to were incorrect.

I was not attempting to comment on the premise of yours or the other poster's post, but the information inside it, as they were not the only one who had those wrong conditions; for some reason, the conditions mentioned are floating around, and so I was just trying to correct them.

 

[DFC]

Let's be clear here.

Not all Senators fans were against a rebuild or unaware of the risks of signing Erik Karlsson long-term.

It's how it was conducted.

You think just getting over it is enough. Other Sens fans don't.

If this re-build is going to work, they have to make the most of EVERY deal going forward.

When they announce that "this is the most important deal in the re-build" and we've barely heard of any of the returning players, there's a discrepancy there.

The part I don't get is, if you're re-building anyway, who cares what division he's in? In fact, don't you want to lose those games anyway to get better picks and potentially higher prospects?

It makes you wonder if there are other concerns aside from maximizing the return - like not humiliating the GM or owner by having him compete directly against your own team, or not paying Karlsson his salary this year.

Going back to the Duchene trade, it's all just a baffling series of disasters.

 

[CupInSIX]

And I think you missed what I was saying.

It is structured around multiple cond. first.
The conditions you had were incorrect.

I was not attempting to comment on the premise of your post, but the information inside it, as you are not the only one who had those wrong conditions; for some reason, the conditions you mentioned are floating around, and so I was just trying to correct them.

again...

I didn't say what the trade was, I said what it should be

 

[uncleben]

again...

I didn't say what the trade was, I said what it should be

Sorry, I thought you were the same poster as the one who had the incorrect conditions. I have since edited my post to reflect that.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

You guys missed what I was saying completely.

Probably, but how can you blame us? We have to use the words you typed to gauge what you meant. Here is what you said in post #908: "so you base a trade around 2 (hell, 3) conditional 1sts".

And what you said was wrong. You emphasized the "conditional" picks while missing or not stating the (UNconditional) picks that they did receive.