Confirmed Trade: Part 2:[OTT/SJ] Erik Karlsson and Francis Perron for Tierney, DeMelo, Norris, Balcers, 1st, 2nd

[JoVel]

I think people are significantly underrating the package Ottawa got. Norris and Balcers are both very solid prospects.

Karlsson is pretty solid too.

 

[I am Canadian]

You mean like Bowers and Girard?

I guess; I don't understand why Colorado got a significantly better return on 2 years of Duchene then Ottawa got for 1 year of Karlsson. Makes zero sense other than bad negations by GM's? Colorado's hand was forced just as much as Ottawa's was.

 

[COHawk]

considering my team got nothing for our star player who wanted out, yes I am jealous

I read your post wrong, my bad. I was thinking you were jealous of them losing Karlsson.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Karlsson is pretty solid too.

Alas, he has one more year on his contract with a team expected to be bottom five and "wasn't" resigning.

Underwhelming package or not, retaining Karlsson wasn't an option.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Karlsson is pretty solid too.

One year of Karlsson does the Sens absolutely nothing.

 

[CupInSIX]

Seriously did Melnyk fire his pro scouts and Dorion was left scratching his head? This seems like very little homework was done leading up to the past few days and Dorion did a quick Hockeydb search.

I think people are significantly underrating the package Ottawa got. Norris and Balcers are both very solid prospects.

Yeah they'd be a great return
for a guy like Hoffman.

 

[DFC]

I guess; I don't understand why Colorado got a significantly better return on 2 years of Duchene then Ottawa got for 1 year of Karlsson. Makes zero sense other than bad negations by GM's? Colorado's hand was forced just as much as Ottawa's was.

Seems like everyone has accepted Dorion/Melnyk are terrible. The only question is how terrible, and pinpointing the mistakes.

 

[CupInSIX]

Alas, he has one more year on his contract with a team expected to be bottom five and "wasn't" resigning.

Underwhelming package or not, retaining Karlsson wasn't an option.

so you base a trade around 2 (hell, 3) conditional 1sts

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Seriously did Melnyk fire his pro scouts and Dorion was left scratching his head? This seems like very little homework was done leading up to the past few days and Dorion did a quick Hockeydb search.



Yeah they'd be a great return
for a guy like Hoffman.

They also got 2 solid roster players and 2 excellent picks.

 

[God King Fudge]

Alas, he has one more year on his contract with a team expected to be bottom five and "wasn't" resigning.

Underwhelming package or not, retaining Karlsson wasn't an option.

I guarantee they would have gotten equal or better at the deadline. You do indeed take the risk of him being hurt or having a bad season, but then you probably just end up with a deal like this anyway. There will be players well below Erik Karlsson that get dealt at the upcoming deadline that will receive a better return than the Sens just got for EK.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Yeah, just as he's cherry-picking the quality of those players involved.

I agree with your statement that you cherry picked. You did a good job of avoiding the facts that were presented that took away from your narrative as well.

 

[Lenerdosy]

Just absolutely love it how there is a certain group of a obvious fan base trying their absolute best to sell the world and discourage Ottawa fans into thinking this is a horrible trade.

Lets do some comparisons here.

Karllson a pending UFA by next July, it's a trade for something or get Nothing? so far so good right?

Tavares a UFA by this July, Isles also in the same boat, was trade or get nothing, easy?

Ottawa got something for Karlsson, Isles got nothing, and it seems like Isles are getting less heat for getting nothing then he Sens getting something for Karlsson.

Lets use the Ryan Mcdonagh trade for an example

Rangers trade, well...... according to their fan base, an elite defensemen in Ryan McDonagh, along with J.T Miller an established top 6 forward under the age of 26 for...

To Tampa

Ryan McDonagh established top pairing dman, fans on hfboards.com sold him like he is as good as Ryan Sutter, who is also a Norris level calibre dman (although he's never won it, still good company)
JT ****ING MILLER along with an established top 6 forward for 3 seasons who was a former 2011 first rouner

Rangers get

Libor Hajek a 2016 2nd rounder
Brett Howden a 2016 first rounder
Namestnkov an established NHL player since 2014, but not until 2018 season when he played as a top 6 players.
1st round pick in 2018

Now lets look Erik Karlson Trade, before we continue, keep in mind, Rangers also traded J.T miller, along with the dman to get the package they got.

To San Jose
Eriksson, Norris level dman
Francis Peron, a 7th rounder

to Ottawa (please pay attention)

Tierney who played a full season with he San Jose Sharks, 24 years old, 41 points as a 3rd line player.....
Demelo played 60 games with the San Jose Sharks, and played all the playoff games for the Sharks. Ottawa so far has 2 full time NHL players under the age of 25? not a bad start.....

1st round pick in 2020 (this one is already in the bank)
2nd round pick (this one also in the bank.
AND ADDITIONAL 2nd round pick if he re signs with San Jose.
AND ADDITIONAL 1ST ROUNDER if the Sharks reach the Stanley cup finals in 2019 (this one might to happen)

Josh Norris who is a first rounder in 2017.

so far Ottawa already gets
1st round pick
2nd round ,
Josh Norris
Tierney Demelo in exchange for Karrlson. so 2 full time NHL players under the age of 25 1st round pick 2nd round pick a first rounder from just a year ago, SO FAR.

now if you look at the McDonagh, it is similar as it gets. Don't bloody forget they also traded J.T Miller along with McDonagh.

this deal is as good as it gets for Ottawa, now am I saying it's a win for them? I say it is a win for both teams, big time, and I didn't even include potentially another 2nd rounder that might come there way or a 1st rounder if the Sharks reach the finals, but all in all a nice trade for Ottawa, what exactly were People thinking they can get? Honestly. His hands were tied , its similar to the McDonagh trade, sure as hell it's better then getting nothing like what happened to John Tavares.

Apparently they would only get the 1st if he resigned. SJS could go out and win the cup this season, not resign Karlsson and not give up either of those pics.

 

[Arselona]

I think this is a good trade for Ottawa. Karlsson was going to leave anyhow and is a rental. No team was going to give up a great prospect so they settled for a bunch of ok pieces, smart to have depth and picks. Besides you do not need big names to be a good team, see Vegas.

San Jose wants Thornton to get his cup I guess

 

[DFC]

I agree with your statement that you cherry picked. You did a good job of avoiding the facts that were presented that took away from your narrative as well.

My position isn't exactly tough to find. I think the prospects in our deal with NY are better than what Ottawa got here. His listing of the qualities of those players doesn't negate that every prospect guy in the hockey media is saying they don't project to be top-six impact players.

 

[CupInSIX]

They also got 2 solid roster players and 2 excellent picks.

1 solid player and 1 warm body, neither of which will probably be with the team when they're at the end of their rebuild. Can you guarantee Demelo will even be in the NHL in 4 years? They'll be lucky to get a 4th for him. Tierney might fetch a 2nd at the deadline but this is Dorion we're talking about.
1 late 1st 2 years from now and a 2nd...potentially another 1st

This is fair value for a really good 2nd liner, plus some change and 'guys that can play now' thrown in. Face it, Dorion choked with the press literally standing there waiting.

 

[SabresSharks]

I still can't get over the fact I'll be seeing EK in teal for an NHL game in a few weeks. Amazing.

Whatever you think of Ottawa's return, it must have been the best offer made by any western conference team. We can debate the timing of the trade, and Melnyk's penny-pinching ways, and Dorion's competence, but that essential point remains.

Don't get me wrong. I'm delighted the Sharks were able to acquire Karlsson for such a modest return, but all of you claiming "lololololol, worst trade evah!!!" need to ask yourself why Dallas, Vegas, etc. didn't make a better offer.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

so you base a trade around 2 (hell, 3) conditional 1sts

Read the trade info a little more carefully. They did NOT receive just "conditional" picks.

The unconditional picks that the Senators received are:

1. 1st round pick in 2020 (this one is already in the bank)
2. 2nd round pick (this one is also in the bank).

The conditional picks (the ones you seem to have latched on to) are:

• 2nd round pick if he re signs with San Jose.
• 1st round pick if the Sharks reach the Stanley cup finals in 2019

In addition to the picks, they also received:

1. Prospects - Norris & Balcer
2. Player - Demelo.

I'm not trying to defend the trade or say that is was great. However, why do people misrepresent the facts when the info is out there and can so easily be found and back-checked? Odd thing to do.

 

[DFC]

I still can't get over the fact I'll be seeing EK in teal for an NHL game in a few weeks. Amazing.

Whatever you think of Ottawa's return, it must have been the best offer made by any western conference team. We can debate the timing of the trade, and Melnyk's penny-pinching ways, and Dorion's competence, but that essential point remains.

Don't get me wrong. I'm delighted the Sharks were able to acquire Karlsson for such a modest return, but all of you claiming "lololololol, worst trade evah!!!" need to ask yourself why Dallas, Vegas, etc. didn't make a better offer.

In Vegas's case, it looks like they spent their assets on Patches. I don't think they ever got back involved to a serious degree, as evidenced by the eventual trade.

Dallas's offer was just likely never all that good.

 

[MMANumminen]

worst trade in the history of mankind

 

[uncleben]

Read the trade info a little more carefully. They did NOT receive just "conditional" picks.

The unconditional picks that the Senators received are:

1. 1st round pick in 2020 (this one is already in the bank)
2. 2nd round pick (this one is also in the bank).

The conditional picks (the ones you seem to have latched on to) are:

• 2nd round pick if he re signs with San Jose.
• 1st round pick if the Sharks reach the Stanley cup finals in 2019

In addition to the picks, they also received:

1. Prospects - Norris & Balcer
2. Player - Demelo.

I'm not trying to defend the trade or say that is was great. However, why do people misrepresent the facts when the info is out there and can so easily be found and back-checked? Odd thing to do.

Idk how this keeps coming up... the real conditions are:

• 2nd round pick if he re signs with San Jose, and that will be upgraded to a 1st if SJS reaches the Stanley Cup final in 2019
• 1st round pick if Karlsson is on any Eastern Conference team's reserve list at any point this season

That's to say, if SJS reaches the final BUT doesn't re-sign EK, there is no pick exchanged
AND, in theory, they can re-sign EK, but then trade him to another team (for some bizarre reason), win the Cup without EK and potentially have to give up two first rounders

 

[HoweHullOrr]

My position isn't exactly tough to find. I think the prospects in our deal with NY are better than what Ottawa got here. His listing of the qualities of those players doesn't negate that every prospect guy in the hockey media is saying they don't project to be top-six impact players.

OK. However, I wasn't focused on a comparison to a NYR trade. I really don't care about that.

You cherry picked and avoided a lot of other to make things look worse. That's what I was talking about. And, I'm not a clairvoyant, so I don't attempt to predict the future.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

That "best friend" thing was just a comms exercise.

He took what he could get and tried to spin it.

I don't think he literally went out and chose the San Jose Sharks on the basis that Norris was friends with Brady Tkachuk.

There was so little that was positive about the return that this is all he could come up with.

Perhaps Norris’ friendship with Tkachuk altered Dorion’s perception of Norris, even slightly? It’s tough to say since we don’t know, but I could totally see that being the case.

It reminds me of when New Jersey traded the Sharks a 2nd round pick for career AHLer Mirco Mueller because Mueller was Swiss and they had just drafted Nico Hischier and they wanted a fellow countryman on the team.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

The worst trade of the decade?

I really thought the original Kessel to Toronto deal would hold that title for a while. Been some doozies since then though (seguin ironically) and others.

Not this one though, unless Karlsson signs a sweetheart deal with SJ and all the prospects bust on Ottawa.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

That "best friend" thing was just a comms exercise.

He took what he could get and tried to spin it.

I don't think he literally went out and chose the San Jose Sharks on the basis that Norris was friends with Brady Tkachuk.

There was so little that was positive about the return that this is all he could come up with.

Perhaps Norris’ friendship with Tkachuk altered Dorion’s perception of Norris, even slightly? It’s tough to say since we don’t know, but I could totally see that being the case.

It reminds me of when New Jersey traded the Sharks a 2nd round pick for career AHLer Mirco Mueller because Mueller was Swiss and they had just drafted Nico Hischier and they wanted a fellow countryman on the team.

 

[DFC]

OK. However, I wasn't focused on a comparison to a NYR trade. I really don't care about that.

You cherry picked and avoided a lot of other to make things look worse. That's what I was talking about. And, I'm not a clairvoyant, so I don't attempt to predict the future.

I'm honestly not even sure what you mean. And I don't mean that with any sort of sarcasm. He himself was comparing the trade to the NY trade, and that was the entire context of my response, plus the bit about "better than nothing," which wasn't the totality of my point, but just responding to a common defense we've seen of the trade.

My point throughout is only that I think TB's deadline offer was a lot better than this, and I think it's likely their offer on July 1 was better than this, although the evidence for the former (the NY trade) is stronger than the latter (hearsay).