Panarin Thread II (wins Calder)

[TorMenT]

I love this kid, he is going to be a consistant 80 point scorer ina couple years, I hope Stan can manage to sign him and not just let him go like Saad, guys like these are not easy to obtain. We need guys after Kane and Toews, TT and Breadman should be the two especially with Hossa getting up there in age.

80 points is a bit aggressive... Especially consistently. I think you need to re-calibrate with how the league is currently setup.

2014-2015 Season - 5 Players achieved 80+ points (Benn, Tavares, Crosby, Voracek, Ovechkin)
2013-2014 Season - 7 players achieved 80+ points (Crosby, Getzlaf, Giroux, Seguin, Perry, Kessel, Hall)
2012-2013 Season - Shortened Season
2011-2012 Season - 9 players achieved 80+ points (Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux, Spezza, Kovalchuk, Kessel, Tavares, Sedin, Neal)
2010-2011 Season - 9 players achieved 80+ points (Sedin, St. Louis, Perry, Sedin, Stamkos, Iginla, Ovechkin, Selanne, Zetterberg)

The point is that it's only been trending downwards in terms of points per player. If you want to say he'll be a consistent 60 point player, that would be more reasonable, and still a top player in the league. To hope Panarin reaches 80 one time would be a stretch at this point. Look at the players listed above. If he reaches any of them, that would be amazing, but probably not realistic. Maybe I'm wrong, but to say he's going to be a consistent 80 point player in a couple years is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

On NHL.com, they had an "All-Calder" team, and Panarin is on the top line with McDavid and Ehlers.

TvR is also on the defensive team, 2nd defensive line with Griffin Reinhart.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

TvR could win the Calder?
(He won't, but I didn't know he was still considered a rookie)

 

[Hawkaholic]

I hope Stan can manage to sign him and not just let him go like Saad, guys like these are not easy to obtain. .

Stan didn't let Saad go.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

TvR could win the Calder?
(He won't, but I didn't know he was still considered a rookie)

That confused me as well, to be honest. Thought he had played enough to not be considered for that.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

I think they just make it up as they go from year to year

 

[ClydeLee]

TvR could win the Calder?
(He won't, but I didn't know he was still considered a rookie)

He only played 18 Reg and then 4 playoff games because of his injuries. So he didn't play over the cutoff point, which might be 25 games? I don't remember what it is, but I'm sure it's no lower than 25. It's probably that.

But obviously their rules are quite loose, Major Hockey League apparently means NHL or at one point WHA and nothing else. Just like every other rule in the league like suspensions or whats a distinct kicking motion.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

Well, /I/ think he should win the Calder.
McJesus and Eichel WHO?!

But if it were to go to a Hawk, it'd be Panera.

 

[Hawkaholic]

To be considered a rookie, a player must not have played in more than 25 NHL games in any preceding seasons, nor in six or more NHL games in each of any two preceding seasons. Any player at least 26 years of age (by September 15th of that season) is not considered a rookie.

He has only played in 18NHL games before this year

 

[BobbyJet]

I think they just make it up as they go from year to year

Actually the NHL has been pretty consistent. If memory serves me, things started to get fuzzy when Peter Stastny came over, followed by a ship load of Russians who were seasoned players. The NHL needed to change the Calder Trophy parameters otherwise the kids had no chance of competing.

 

[perth blasters]

I think Sergei Makarov was the breaking point iirc.

 

[perth blasters]

Panarin has 8 points in 7 game and yet I feel like he has been alone with a goaltender 9-10 times this season and scored once.

Point is I don't even think his start statistically is out of line.

Twice... both his goals were essentially the same sort of play - a feed from Kane that put him alone with the goalie (one from the left side and the other from behind the net).

 

[perth blasters]

Maybe I'm wrong, but to say he's going to be a consistent 80 point player in a couple years is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

I don't necessarily know if it is - now with the 3 on 3 OT if that creates more results, instead of going straight to a shootout, that alone will provide a little uptick in offensive stats, if for no other reason than the goals in OT count as stats whereas those in a shootout don't.

Point being that there are more opportunities to score this season as opposed to last season in terms of countable statistics. Back in the day you had Gretzky scoring more assists than the next guy had total points -and in the extreme example I think in one season he had close to an -average- of 3 points per game ... and this was after the league had banned 4 on 4's for coincidental minors. There isn't really anyway to predict if the league has had enough of this ppg as a scoring leader stuff ... but if the idea is that scoring brings in people ... then ppg scoring leaders might be viewed as counter intuitive.

 

[BobbyJet]

I think Sergei Makarov was the breaking point iirc.

I think you are right. He was something like 28 when he came over.

 

[TorMenT]

I don't necessarily know if it is - now with the 3 on 3 OT if that creates more results, instead of going straight to a shootout, that alone will provide a little uptick in offensive stats, if for no other reason than the goals in OT count as stats whereas those in a shootout don't.

Point being that there are more opportunities to score this season as opposed to last season in terms of countable statistics. Back in the day you had Gretzky scoring more assists than the next guy had total points -and in the extreme example I think in one season he had close to an -average- of 3 points per game ... and this was after the league had banned 4 on 4's for coincidental minors. There isn't really anyway to predict if the league has had enough of this ppg as a scoring leader stuff ... but if the idea is that scoring brings in people ... then ppg scoring leaders might be viewed as counter intuitive.

3v3 OT won't make the huge difference in Panarin's stats that Blackhawks was suggesting he would achieve. 3v3 means he's less likely to be on the ice as well. Unless Panarin becomes some hall of fame player, I highly doubt he'll be hitting 80 points per season consistently. Maybe once if he's lucky.

 

[perth blasters]

Ok - I'll go this far then, I don't even know that he won't do it this season.

Where is this dog day's swoon supposed to come from? Is it the 'smaller sized North American rinks', the heavier physical toll from a long season (look he isn't big and has had to deal with that one for several years now), is it because he is supposed to be like every other new guy to the league?

I don't know - I mean firstly the kid played in at least 80 games last season during the KHL regular season, KHL playoffs and the IIHC worlds - so I mean that is not some lightweight schedule like I have read some people (admittedly on other boards) like to point out.

I don't think that 80's points is supposed to be the new 150 points or whatever you want to set your highest scoring guys at, metric by the league and I would expect them to make some other adjustments to bring the point totals up at some point.

Seriously ... 80 points used to just mean a solid player -not an all world guy. They have tinkered a bit too much with the rules, and this deflated scoring is the result of it.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I think you are right. He was something like 28 when he came over.

Actually he was 31 when he won Calder

 

[TorMenT]

Ok - I'll go this far then, I don't even know that he won't do it this season.

Where is this dog day's swoon supposed to come from? Is it the 'smaller sized North American rinks', the heavier physical toll from a long season (look he isn't big and has had to deal with that one for several years now), is it because he is supposed to be like every other new guy to the league?

I don't know - I mean firstly the kid played in at least 80 games last season during the KHL regular season, KHL playoffs and the IIHC worlds - so I mean that is not some lightweight schedule like I have read some people (admittedly on other boards) like to point out.

I don't think that 80's points is supposed to be the new 150 points or whatever you want to set your highest scoring guys at, metric by the league and I would expect them to make some other adjustments to bring the point totals up at some point.

Seriously ... 80 points used to just mean a solid player -not an all world guy. They have tinkered a bit too much with the rules, and this deflated scoring is the result of it.

Like I posted a few posts ago, 5 players hit 80 points last year. You just admitted they tinkered too much and scoring is down. Why do you think Panarin will hit 80 points this year?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Only flaw of Panarin at this point is he at times seems to not realize that there are other players on ice not named Kane

Last night him not passing puck to wide open Seabrook and instead dropping it for Kane which resulted in turnover is example of this flaw

 

[perth blasters]

Like I posted a few posts ago, 5 players hit 80 points last year. You just admitted they tinkered too much and scoring is down. Why do you think Panarin will hit 80 points this year?

I didn't say that - I said that I didn't know that he wouldn't (not at this point).

 

[perth blasters]

Only flaw of Panarin at this point is he at times seems to realize that there are other players on ice not named Kane

Last night him not passing puck to wide open Seabrook and instead dropping it for Kane which resulted in turnover is example of this flaw

I don't know - Eddie seemed more to be in peewee coach teacher level when he was going on about that ... and what he said made sense at that level, but I don't know that the actual moment to make a decision and go with it, then live by the results and then deal with that are literally less than a second out there. I don't think the play was nearly as bad as Eddie went on about it; I fully respect him -but, I don't know ... in a perfect world, what he said was right ... hockey is not ever a perfect world. There is a fair amount of intuition in it (and I can't even begin to imagine what it is like in the NHL level).

 

[BobbyJet]

Only flaw of Panarin at this point is he at times seems to realize that there are other players on ice not named Kane

Last night him not passing puck to wide open Seabrook and instead dropping it for Kane which resulted in turnover is example of this flaw

No question of this, and there are far worse examples - such as Panarin throwing the puck cross ice with 2 ops players in between he and Kane. The two make some pretty plays together but ops laugh at pretty plays when they are on the perimeter and will be satisfied to let you do it all night long.

 

[massivegoonery]

need more meat and tomatoes hockey

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Artemi Panarin

Figured I'd start one for Breadsy. Highlights to date below.

 

[BobbyJet]

The sooner Panarin realizes that what has worked in lesser leagues won't necessarily work in the NHL, the better. His talent is obvious, but needs to simplify his game and work on getting the puck to the net.... and quit looking for Kane any time they are on the ice together. He has gone something like 11 games without scoring. Hawks need more from him.