Proposal: Pacioretty for O'Reilly (other adds)

[Patagonia]

Terrible for the Sabres!

Considering the little return for Galchenyuk, there is no chance Buffalo would accept this package. Pacioretty will have more value to a competitive vs rebuilding team. The HABs need to include their 1st - 3rd (unlikely) or package prospects with their 2nds:

ROR

For

Pacioretty
Poehling
Mete
2018 2nd-35th (MTL)
2018 2nd-38th (CHI)

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Why ROR is a legit 1c.

Nah he's not.


He's a high end 2C but he doesn't have close to the offensive production nor does he actually drive the play himself from the middle well enough to be a legit 1C.


A large amount of his production(Almost half) comes from the PP. Last year for example(If I remember correctly) he had just ~30 even strength points while having almost 30 on the PP. His even strength points ranked 57th in the league just among Centers.



He's a high end 2C but he's not a 1C if your team wants to contend for a cup. And looking at the contract of other high end 2Cs right now, it's clear he's about 1M overpaid. This likely changes in the next couple years as the cap goes up and other high end 2Cs start earning ~7M contracts however, but for now it's true.


Dont get me wrong, as an Avs fan I know the guy is a work horse and extremely valuable and important player to have. But he's not worth the 3rd overall pick especially in this years draft. When you have the chance to draft a Hughes/Zadina/Kotkaniemi/Dobson level player at the picks from 3-6. All 4 guys have tremendous upside greater then what ROR is as a player and all 4 have fairly realistic chances of hitting that kind of upside. For a team like Montreal that's about to go into a rebuild it would be foolish to trade a potential franchise player for a very good but not franchise level player like O'Reilly. Just wouldn't make any sense at all. Then again it is Bergevin so if there's one GM in the league who would make such a move, he's the guy to do it.

 

[nickdawg95]

3oa + Domi

 

[is the answer jesus]

I was saying the OPs was terrible for Buffalo. They're not giving up ROR for basically just Patches with 1 year left. It's awful for Buffalo.


But then it goes in the complete opposite direction to suggest that ROR is worth Patches AND the 3rd overall. ROR doesn't get the 3rd overall himself. He's a good player but he's not a 1C and he's about a Mil overpaid. Not the type of player you move 3rd overall picks for.

Nevermind getting Patches on top of that.




My team? My team isn't even a part of this thread and in fact Montreal would easily be in the very small list of teams I absolutely hate.


But Ryan O'Reilly isn't worth anywhere near the 3rd overall pick. And you think that would be an add on to Pacioretty.


It's absolutely laughable.

Ryan O'Reilly is a 1C. His usage, production, and underlying stats all prove it. His contract is exactly what a defensively elite, in his prime 1st line center should be making. Stop this nonsensical narrative that O'Reilly isn't a 1st line center or that he's overpaid. It's not true. No matter how often it's regurgitated by poorly informed hockey fans. Players like him in the prime of their careers, with term, almost never become available. The last time a comparable player was traded in Mike Richards he yielded the best prospect in hockey in Schenn, a good young player in Simmonds and a 2nd round pick. That tells me he undoubtedly is worth the 3rd overall pick. If no one wants to give anything of real value up then Buffalo keeps him. It's really that simple.

 

[go4hockey]

Oreilly:ppg=0.65,-53
Paccioretty:0.72+36

Cute we all know there is more to the game than stats. All the great defensive work ROR does make him far more valuable.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Nah he's not.


He's a high end 2C but he doesn't have close to the offensive production nor does he actually drive the play himself from the middle well enough to be a legit 1C.


A large amount of his production(Almost half) comes from the PP. Last year for example(If I remember correctly) he had just ~30 even strength points while having almost 30 on the PP. His even strength points ranked 57th in the league just among Centers.



He's a high end 2C but he's not a 1C if your team wants to contend for a cup. And looking at the contract of other high end 2Cs right now, it's clear he's about 1M overpaid. This likely changes in the next couple years as the cap goes up and other high end 2Cs start earning ~7M contracts however, but for now it's true.


Dont get me wrong, as an Avs fan I know the guy is a work horse and extremely valuable and important player to have. But he's not worth the 3rd overall pick especially in this years draft. When you have the chance to draft a Hughes/Zadina/Kotkaniemi/Dobson level player at the picks from 3-6. All 4 guys have tremendous upside greater then what ROR is as a player and all 4 have fairly realistic chances of hitting that kind of upside. For a team like Montreal that's about to go into a rebuild it would be foolish to trade a potential franchise player for a very good but not franchise level player like O'Reilly. Just wouldn't make any sense at all. Then again it is Bergevin so if there's one GM in the league who would make such a move, he's the guy to do it.

He started over 57% of the time in the defensive zone, on the worst team in hockey, playing the toughest matchups, with an AHL level blueline that struggles to get the puck out of their own zone and we wonder why he doesn't produce high end even strength #'s? Give me a break.

 

[poetryinmotion]

Ryan O'Reilly is a 1C. His usage, production, and underlying stats all prove it. His contract is exactly what a defensively elite, in his prime 1st line center should be making. Stop this nonsensical narrative that O'Reilly isn't a 1st line center or that he's overpaid. It's not true. No matter how often it's regurgitated by poorly informed hockey fans. Players like him in the prime of their careers, with term, almost never become available. The last time a comparable player was traded in Mike Richards he yielded the best prospect in hockey in Schenn, a good young player in Simmonds and a 2nd round pick. That tells me he undoubtedly is worth the 3rd overall pick. If no one wants to give anything of real value up then Buffalo keeps him. It's really that simple.

But Richards was a true 1C only 2 seasons removed from back to pack ppg seasons at the trade. Richards >>>> ROR

 

[5 Minute Major]

I like Pacioretty. Good player. However, no thanks in this scenario.

 

[David Suzuki]

the add needs to be the #3 at least

lmao

 

[Captain97]

Terrible for the Sabres!

Considering the little return for Galchenyuk, there is no chance Buffalo would accept this package. Pacioretty will have more value to a competitive vs rebuilding team. The HABs need to include their 1st - 3rd (unlikely) or package prospects with their 2nds:

ROR

For

Pacioretty
Poehling
Mete
2018 2nd-35th (MTL)
2018 2nd-38th (CHI)

Except you know you added two of our best prospects (counting mete as a prospect) and two high seconds,
Maybe Habs offer
Patches
Juulsen
Chicago's 2nd
Maybe.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Get the F outta here. You essentially valued ROR=Patches. You are dead wrong.

Exactly why trade a 35 goals scorer to a second center who wins 7m a year

Delusional

 

[normaliswear]

Except you know you added two of our best prospects (counting mete as a prospect) and two high seconds,
Maybe Habs offer
Patches
Juulsen
Chicago's 2nd
Maybe.

Pacioretty doesn't do anything for buffalo given his age and the Sabres timeline. How about Scherbak, Juulsen, + a 2nd for ROR?

 

[Patagonia]

Except you know you added two of our best prospects (counting mete as a prospect) and two high seconds,
Maybe Habs offer
Patches
Juulsen
Chicago's 2nd
Maybe.

Sabres are rebuilding and don't really need Patches which is unlikely staying with 1 year remaining on his deal. They're better keeping ROR which is significantly better and signed long-term.

Juulsen (bust), CHI - 2nd is not nearly enough.

 

[is the answer jesus]

But Richards was a true 1C only 2 seasons removed from back to pack ppg seasons at the trade. Richards >>>> ROR

Sure and he was playing on a talent laden playoff caliber team. Not the worst team in hockey. When Richards was traded he was coming off two seasons of scoring around 60 points. His value might have been a bit higher than O'Reilly's due to scoring at a better clip earlier in his career, which is why I'm not asking for the equivalent of Simmonds and more on top of the 3rd overall pick. The reality is both are/were 1st line centers with elite defensive play locked up long-term in their primes. Derek Stepan an inferior player in every aspect to O'Reilly got the #7 pick in the draft. Again I don't know what Habs fans expect... Us to give you O'Reilly out of the kindness of our hearts?

 

[RWatson29]

Pacioretty +2nd (#35 pick) + Lindgren (under some condition Pacioretty resigns)

for

O'Reilly + 2nd (#32 pick)

How about Crosby for DD??? Like gtfo with this garbage

 

[RWatson29]

Give up the better player, and move back 3 spots in draft? Please give me your reasoning as to why buffalo wouldn't hang up the phone

 

[BB88]

About the stupidest trade Buffalo could do.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Pacioretty doesn’t have that value. There’s no way even you think he does. So asinine.

What are you doing?

 

[Captain97]

Sabres are rebuilding and don't really need Patches which is unlikely staying with 1 year remaining on his deal. They're better keeping ROR which is significantly better and signed long-term.

Juulsen (bust), CHI - 2nd is not nearly enough.

How is a 20 yearold playing top 4 minutes and not looking out of place when Weber was out a bust. Please don't comment on other teams prospects when you clearly know nothing about them. As for Saves not wanting sabres their is a rumour thread I think firedman saying they are looking at pacioretty and Skinner as targets.

 

[Captain97]

Pacioretty doesn't do anything for buffalo given his age and the Sabres timeline. How about Scherbak, Juulsen, + a 2nd for ROR?

I'd definitely do that, I'd rather do that.

 

[normaliswear]

I'd definitely do that, I'd rather do that.

I think that's in the neighborhood of fair. Not as much as I'd hope for for ROR, but not so little as I'd be angry.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

He started over 57% of the time in the defensive zone, on the worst team in hockey, playing the toughest matchups, with an AHL level blueline that struggles to get the puck out of their own zone and we wonder why he doesn't produce high end even strength #'s? Give me a break.

Literally everything you just said only further solidifies that he's a strong 2C and not a 1C. So thanks for clearing that up


1Cs get the favorable minutes because they're elite producers. Why doesn't O'Reilly get the favorable matchups? Because he's not an elite point producer. He's the perfect 2C but not capable of generating nearly enough offense on his own to be a 1C.


Also your argument about him producing on a bad team is grasping at straws to a ridiculous level. He's been the exact same player for 5+ years now across two very different teams and his production hasn't changed at all. He was a ~60 point player with the Avs when we were a playoff team in 13/14 and a borderline team in 14/15. And he continued to be a ~60 point player when he went to a worse team.



He's consistent. Doesn't make him a 1C though.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Literally everything you just said only further solidifies that he's a strong 2C and not a 1C. So thanks for clearing that up


1Cs get the favorable minutes because they're elite producers. Why doesn't O'Reilly get the favorable matchups? Because he's not an elite point producer. He's the perfect 2C but not capable of generating nearly enough offense on his own to be a 1C.


Also your argument about him producing on a bad team is grasping at straws to a ridiculous level. He's been the exact same player for 5+ years now across two very different teams and his production hasn't changed at all. He was a ~60 point player with the Avs when we were a playoff team in 13/14 and a borderline team in 14/15. And he continued to be a ~60 point player when he went to a worse team.



He's consistent. Doesn't make him a 1C though.

Yeah he's consistently a 1st line center. 60 points a year is a 1st line player. He led the led the league in icetime for forwards 2 seasons ago and came in the top 10 again this year. Totally a 2nd line player. O'Reilly gets the tough defensive zone matchups because he's elite at the faceoff dot and is elite defensively. Jack Eichel takes more of the offensive zone starts because "gasp" he's an elite young offensive player and his defensive game is nowhere near O'Reilly's. This isn't really that difficult to grasp. If you'd like I can get the crayons out for you and draw you a picture.

 

[Pierre Lebrun]

O'Reilly is a second tier, 1st line center in this version of the NHL. That means that he is a legit first line center.

The initial proposal I made is admittedly missing a piece of significance. Buffalo fans may not like it, but it's something along the lines of Lehkonen or Sherbak.

 

[CaptPantalones]

Nothing shy of either the 3rd pick or a package of multiple good young assets gets it done. Period. End of story.