Ovechkin v Brule

[monster_bertuzzi]

its funny cause ovechkin the year before his draft year helped his team win gold at the junior championship while brule hasnt even been on a team yet

Brule will be the main 'cog' for team Canada at the 2006 WJC...

 

[Form and Substance]

I like Brule as much as the next guy(well, except for monster_bertuzzi, who i sometimes suspect IS brule ) but to try to claim he's better than ovechkin is...kind of foolish. the gulf between ovechkin and crosby is a lot closer than it is between ovechkin and brule.

Any team that picks Ovy in a heart beat but is in no need to rush him and prefers to groom him, is short sighted. I think Brule's intangibles are just as good as Ovy's in the long run, that being said I take Ovy.

 

[ktownhockey]

Brule = Wendel Clark
Ovechkin is a unique breed.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

So I think the argument between Ovechkien sp has done this vs that at so and so level really isnt a good comparison because if he were Canadian, he probably wouldn't of made the senior squad due to it's depth and the politics involved in squad selection ie proven NHL stars.

Dude, give your head a good shake. Ovechkin would have made this team with one hand tied behind his back.

 

[stocktrader]

Dude, give your head a good shake. Ovechkin would have made this team with one hand tied behind his back.

If you mean junior team then I will agree with you.

 

[CapsCrazy]

After reading some posts on this thread, I seriously question whether some of you have actually seen some videos of Ovechkin playing hockey.

 

[bryan579]

If you mean junior team then I will agree with you.

its funny cause brule may not even be a top 3 pick this year and if crosby can make the team and not really dominate and ovechkin has been on his team for 3 years and done really well each year what is that saying...I wonder who could make canada...

 

[Habsfan 32]

I think there is no doubt that Ovechkin will be the most complete player of the two. I think AO will be one of the most complete and feared players in the league. And by feared I mean by his hitting power.

 

[stocktrader]

its funny cause brule may not even be a top 3 pick this year and if crosby can make the team and not really dominate and ovechkin has been on his team for 3 years and done really well each year what is that saying...I wonder who could make canada...

Not sure I follow.
When you compare Crosby's 17 year old tournament to Ovechkin in his 17 year old tournament at the WJC- Crosby outscored him. This is despite being put in an unatural position.

The Rocket Richard trophy winner was cut from our national team. Rick Nash. If you think a teenage Ovechkin, with 0 NHL experience would make Canada's National team you are sorely mistaken.

 

[Chimaera]

Ovechkin probably would have been talented enough to make it on Canada's team at the past tourney. If Crosby was selected to play, Ovechkin probably would've been on the team as well. He darn well had enough talent.


I like Brule, I think he's got a lot of leadership qualities, but... I don't think he's in the same league as far as offensive potential, and sheer dynamic abilities. Brule's going to be a decent scorer, a decent defensive forward, and do a lot of things 'well'. Ovechkin has the potential to excell at a lot of parts of the game. He already has a few moves and steps where you jump out of your seat. It's an explosive ability that Brule doesn't have. Whether or not Ovechkin is going to have that in the NHL is still going to be something to see, but all signs show he'll do alright. Brule's put up decent numbers playing against boys. Ovechkin's put up good numbers playing against men. And some of the best in the world.

And one thing a few are missing is, Ovechkin's certainly going to show some leadership abilities, and hopefully some maturity and growth. It's not like he's chop liver in those departments. Brule hasn't cornered the market on those characteristics. He's not Messier. Brule just doesn't have the potential to be as special as Ovechkin probably should be.

 

[stocktrader]

Ovechkin probably would have been talented enough to make it on Canada's team at the past tourney. If Crosby was selected to play, Ovechkin probably would've been on the team as well. He darn well had enough talent.
QUOTE]
I was talking about our men's team.

 

[surixon]

Ovechkin probably would have been talented enough to make it on Canada's team at the past tourney. If Crosby was selected to play, Ovechkin probably would've been on the team as well. He darn well had enough talent.


I like Brule, I think he's got a lot of leadership qualities, but... I don't think he's in the same league as far as offensive potential, and sheer dynamic abilities. Brule's going to be a decent scorer, a decent defensive forward, and do a lot of things 'well'. Ovechkin has the potential to excell at a lot of parts of the game. He already has a few moves and steps where you jump out of your seat. It's an explosive ability that Brule doesn't have. Whether or not Ovechkin is going to have that in the NHL is still going to be something to see, but all signs show he'll do alright. Brule's put up tolerable numbers playing against boys. Ovechkin's put up good numbers playing against men. And some of the best in the world.

And one thing a few are missing is, Ovechkin's certainly going to show some leadership abilities, and hopefully some maturity and growth. It's not like he's chop liver in those departments. Brule hasn't cornered the market on those characteristics. He's not Messier. Brule just doesn't have the potential to be as special as Ovechkin probably should be.

I was refering to senior team not WJC, considering Canada didn't really even consider Spezza or Cammalleri number 1 and 2 in AHL scoring, so I would think that Ovechkien probably wouldn't of been in the running either.

 

[bryan579]

why go that high when brule wasnt even on the junior team...?

 

[Captain Conservative]

Oh dear. Please stop. Unless you're a direct descendant of Nostradamus, who are you to laugh at such a rational statement.

Which is not to say that stocktrader has said some very unwise things on this thread.

 

[EroCaps]

That's right. It is obvious Brule will be a better leader.
Right now, Ovechkin is the better player, but I also think Brule will turn out better.

Based on what exactly?

 

[EroCaps]

Oh dear. Please stop. Unless you're a direct descendant of Nostradamus, who are you to laugh at such a rational statement.

Nothing is set in stone. You're right. But consider the poster. "Rational"?

 

[Chimaera]

If Crosby made it, and at this point Ovechkin's the more polished/complete of the two, then I'd have expected him to get a look.

 

[stocktrader]

If Crosby made it, and at this point Ovechkin's the more polished/complete of the two, then I'd have expected him to get a look.

Crosby didn't play on any men's team.

 

[DarthSather99]

I think a good debate would be Ovechkin vs. Kovaluchuk .....and I can't spell either one's name ..... both big russian forwards with speed and can check as well....Who will be the better NHL player when all is said and done.

 

[tom_servo]

A better question, why can't they? Both Malkin and Ovechkin speak fluent English so that absurd argument is out the window.

Malkin speaks only very rough English, and still uses a translator. Ovechkin, though, is conversant.

 

[hockeyfan125]

Ovechkin probably would have been talented enough to make it on Canada's team at the past tourney. If Crosby was selected to play, Ovechkin probably would've been on the team as well. He darn well had enough talent.


I like Brule, I think he's got a lot of leadership qualities, but... I don't think he's in the same league as far as offensive potential, and sheer dynamic abilities. Brule's going to be a decent scorer, a decent defensive forward, and do a lot of things 'well'. Ovechkin has the potential to excell at a lot of parts of the game. He already has a few moves and steps where you jump out of your seat. It's an explosive ability that Brule doesn't have. Whether or not Ovechkin is going to have that in the NHL is still going to be something to see, but all signs show he'll do alright. Brule's put up decent numbers playing against boys. Ovechkin's put up good numbers playing against men. And some of the best in the world.

And one thing a few are missing is, Ovechkin's certainly going to show some leadership abilities, and hopefully some maturity and growth. It's not like he's chop liver in those departments. Brule hasn't cornered the market on those characteristics. He's not Messier. Brule just doesn't have the potential to be as special as Ovechkin probably should be.

probably? He would be on the team no queston.

 

[Zine]

Ovechkin probably would have been talented enough to make it on Canada's team at the past tourney. If Crosby was selected to play, Ovechkin probably would've been on the team as well. He darn well had enough talent.

He probably would have made team Canada?

Ovechkin would have been the #1 forward on any team in that tournament.

 

[Winston Wolf]

So I think the argument between Ovechkien sp has done this vs that at so and so level really isnt a good comparison because if he were Canadian, he probably wouldn't of made the senior squad due to it's depth and the politics involved in squad selection ie proven NHL stars.

Ovechkin would've played on Canada's senior team for sure. Ovechkin's a special kind of young talent that only Eric Lindros has possessed for a long, long time. Other players of the past and/or the present may have more talent and offensive capability, like possibly Crosby for example, but only Lindros and Ovechkin have been able to combine this high level of skill with great size and physical domination at such a young age.

Ovechkin's 3-4 inches and 40-50 pounds on prospects like Crosby and Brule makes him the much more effective player against other men at this point in time. There really is no comparison. How effective would Crosby be if he received limited ice time against bigger, faster men while being expected to be a complete player first and not receiving the prime offensive ice time? Those are the things Team Canada would expect from any 18 year old forward, as they aren't going to put them on a scoring line, and Crosby isn't a good fit for the more defensive lines that Canada likes to match. Ovechkin is considerably stronger and more physical, has a more powerful stride, is better in his own zone, and can just basically do more away from the puck right now at this level of play. Ovechkin could play this role as well as nearly any Canadian forward out there, so even on a star laden Team Canada there is room for Ovechkin because he could sufficiently fit anywhere throughout the forward lines, whether scoring or checking.

Saying that Ovechkin's inclusion on Team Russia was only because of Russia's more liberal use of young players than Canada is pretty narrow minded. Fact is, nobody since Lindros (who played with the seniors at 18) has been this specific type of prospect, so trying to use Canada's prior selection history against him doesn't work.

 

[stocktrader]

Ovechkin would've played on Canada's senior team for sure. Ovechkin's a special kind of young talent that only Eric Lindros has possessed for a long, long time. Other players of the past and/or the present may have more talent and offensive capability, like possibly Crosby for example, but only Lindros and Ovechkin have been able to combine this high level of skill with great size and physical domination at such a young age.

Ovechkin's 3-4 inches and 40-50 pounds on prospects like Crosby and Brule makes him the much more effective player against other men at this point in time. There really is no comparison. How effective would Crosby be if he received limited ice time against bigger, faster men while being expected to be a complete player first and not receiving the prime offensive ice time? Those are the things Team Canada would expect from any 18 year old forward, as they aren't going to put them on a scoring line, and Crosby isn't a good fit for the more defensive lines that Canada likes to match. Ovechkin is considerably stronger and more physical, has a more powerful stride, is better in his own zone, and can just basically do more away from the puck right now at this level of play. Ovechkin could play this role as well as nearly any Canadian forward out there, so even on a star laden Team Canada there is room for Ovechkin because he could sufficiently fit anywhere throughout the forward lines, whether scoring or checking.

Saying that Ovechkin's inclusion on Team Russia was only because of Russia's more liberal use of young players than Canada is pretty narrow minded. Fact is, nobody since Lindros (who played with the seniors at 18) has been this specific type of prospect, so trying to use Canada's prior selection history against him doesn't work.

I didn't know Ovechkin is 235.

 

[Chimaera]

I say probably, because it really depends on how he 'would' have done in camp. And on a lot of other intangibles... Others on this thread have said he wouldn't have made it. Call it hedging if you will.

A more interesting question would be if Semin or some of the other young guns would've gotten consideration for a team like Canada. That's a more interesting question to me.