Our Future In Goal

[Bouma Fett*]

I think the "Ortio hate" is referring a lot to me mate. Because clearly me believing he won't ever be a legitimate starting goaltender means I hate the guy.

 

[Lunatik]

I think the "Ortio hate" is referring a lot to me mate. Because clearly me believing he won't ever be a legitimate starting goaltender means I hate the guy.

I think it's about me actually. It is rather sad though instead of debating directly that he feels the need to say "certain posters" rather than quote us directly. Probably because he has no real valid points to backup his opinion that it's a bad idea other than Ortio is young with potential.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

I think it's about me actually. It is rather sad though instead of debating directly that he feels the need to say "certain posters" rather than quote us directly. Probably because he has no real valid points to backup his opinion that it's a bad idea other than Ortio is young with potential.

It's the two of us being referred to haha. We might have to join forces as a tag team.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Guys please try and stick to the actual topic instead of sides and who hates who.

Cheers,

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Ortio is so bad, he might actually be good. Win/Win.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

Guys please try and stick to the actual topic instead of sides and who hates who.

Cheers,

O Captain, my captain. *salutes*

I do wonder how McDonald will end up faring. I think he's the dark horse who could be our mainstay goalie ten years from now. It all depends on how he will adjust when he turns pro, but the tools are there.

 

[InfinityIggy]

O Captain, my captain. *salutes*

I do wonder how McDonald will end up faring. I think he's the dark horse who could be our mainstay goalie ten years from now. It all depends on how he will adjust when he turns pro, but the tools are there.

The nice thing is presuming one or both of Ortio/Gillies turns into a starter, McDonald should have lots of time to develop and won't be rushed at all. McDonald is an exciting prospect for sure, I am still waiting for him to have that dominate season though. So far he's been merely good/great.

 

[Calculon]

Not at all what the point is, or anything resembling what I said. The point is about risk tolerance. Pretty basic concept.

It's . . . the same thing.

"I'd love to see someone provide examples of the last time a goalie in a similar position to Ortio, got claimed."​

It's self explanatory.

If you think the risk is minuscule like I do, then it being 'not worth the risk' is a bit silly. You don't really think the odds of him being claimed are low with a statement like that.

Also who said anything about him not being able to earn a spot in training camp? Certainly not me. If he earns a spot great. Even then though, it does nothing to change the reality of the Flames contract situation, which means unless one of Hiller/Ramo could be moved in short order Ortio would need to be sent down. The Flames won't pay one of Hiller/Ramo to play in the minors.

Lots of time until training camp. And there's nothing to suggest the Flames have stopped shopping Hiller.

Saying those who like Gillies are 'writing off Ortio' is a pretty ****** strawman arguement. I happen to like both goalies. Again though, that doesn't change the Flames contract situation.

Great, because that's not what I said.

What hate? Show me one negative thing I have said about Ortio. All I have said is that I think he will clear waivers. There is no 'Ortio hate' except from 1TG who clearly doesn't think highly of him. Honestly, the posts claiming people 'hate' Ortio because I think he will clear waivers is getting ****ing old.

Unsurprisingly, this went over a lot of heads. It was a jab at posts claiming Ortio is over-hyped or 'hyped like Irving', because apparently, suggesting Ortio has potential, which all anyone has done, is over-hyping him.

 

[Lunatik]

It is suggesting he is too valuable to lose to waivers that is the over hyping.

 

[InfinityIggy]

It's . . . the same thing.

"I'd love to see someone provide examples of the last time a goalie in a similar position to Ortio, got claimed."​

It's self explanatory.

It's not at all the same thing. If you can't understand the difference there is no point arguing this point further.

Lots of time until training camp. And there's nothing to suggest the Flames have stopped shopping Hiller.

There is also nothing to suggest he is being shopped though. Although I wouldn't be surprised if he gets moved.

Great, because that's not what I said.

those are ready to appoint Gillies, who has yet to play a professional game, the future starter, are also writing off Ortio.

Its exactly what you said.

Unsurprisingly, this went over a lot of heads. It was a jab at posts claiming Ortio is over-hyped or 'hyped like Irving', because apparently, suggesting Ortio has potential, which all anyone has done, is over-hyping him.

The Ortio hype is just like Irving, its not really even debatable. Its the exact same kind of posts, given Ortio's sample size at the NHL level. However what you failed to realize is that comparing the levels of hype does not mean I expect the same result. You made an assumption.

I also never said he was being over hyped. Just that it was the same level/type as Irving.

 

[Master Bill]

I'm wondering if seeing Ortio in that last game vs. Winnipeg lowered expectations/opinions in some people. Although a small sample, but his 4 game winning streak was a good demonstration of his potential to be a starting goalie. Plus, the season he had two years ago in the AHL was absolutely outstanding.

Also I don't know if anyone explained this earlier but can someone explain why there is a slim chance Ortio won't get claimed?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

The nice thing is presuming one or both of Ortio/Gillies turns into a starter, McDonald should have lots of time to develop and won't be rushed at all. McDonald is an exciting prospect for sure, I am still waiting for him to have that dominate season though. So far he's been merely good/great.

How? Kid had 2nd best save percentage in his league while only trailing a 20 year old / overager.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

I'm wondering if seeing Ortio in that last game vs. Winnipeg lowered expectations/opinions in some people. Although a small sample, but his 4 game winning streak was a good demonstration of his potential to be a starting goalie. Plus, the season he had two years ago in the AHL was absolutely outstanding.

Also I don't know if anyone explained this earlier but can someone explain why there is a slim chance Ortio won't get claimed?

Because a few ofus are of the opinion that he isn't considered to be considered good enough league wide to get claimed and have a team stuck with him on the main roster in a roster spot given his low NHL sample size. Any team who claims him has to keep him up on the NHL team without assigning him to the AHL.

 

[Lunatik]

I'm wondering if seeing Ortio in that last game vs. Winnipeg lowered expectations/opinions in some people. Although a small sample, but his 4 game winning streak was a good demonstration of his potential to be a starting goalie. Plus, the season he had two years ago in the AHL was absolutely outstanding.

Also I don't know if anyone explained this earlier but can someone explain why there is a slim chance Ortio won't get claimed?

My opinion of Ortio has been such for a while. I think using his 4 game winning streak as an example of anything is foolish.

There are several factors as to why it is unlikely Ortio gets claimed.

1. At the end of camp teams will have their goaltending set as it is too risky for them not to.
2. Most teams have comparable prospects to Ortio.
3. If claimed they have to gift him a roster spot.
4. Players are rarely claimed off waivers at the end of camp.
5. The last goaltender claimed off waivers was Joey MacDonald when we got him from Detroit

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Last two years:
48-21-1 AHL
8-6 NHL

Bust

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

without Ortio the last two years (AHL):
14/15: 14-20-7
13/14: 16-22-3

Waivers for sure

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Joni is a pretty cool name. I was wish my name was Joni, my life would have been so much better.

 

[Richi]

My opinion of Ortio has been such for a while. I think using his 4 game winning streak as an example of anything is foolish.

There are several factors as to why it is unlikely Ortio gets claimed.

1. At the end of camp teams will have their goaltending set as it is too risky for them not to.
2. Most teams have comparable prospects to Ortio.
3. If claimed they have to gift him a roster spot.
4. Players are rarely claimed off waivers at the end of camp.
5. The last goaltender claimed off waivers was Joey MacDonald when we got him from Detroit

Just to further the discussion: Do you guys think that either Hiller or Rämö would get claimed? I don´t think that either of them will be sent down but there is also the (probably marginal) chance that Ortio convinces the coaches in camp and earns his spot.

 

[Lunatik]

Just to further the discussion: Do you guys think that either Hiller or Rämö would get claimed? I don´t think that either of them will be sent down but there is also the (probably marginal) chance that Ortio convinces the coaches in camp and earns his spot.

I honestly don't know about those I think there is a better chance they get claimed than Ortio because they are established NHLers and players of their quality are rarely put on waivers (the last I recall being Bryz when Burke decided to waive him rather than trade him so he couldn't be traded at the deadline)

 

[Johnny GODreau]

As it stands we got a 3 headed goalie monster in Calgary, Hiller/Ramo/Ortio and in the pipeline another 3 headed goalie monster, Ortio/Gillies/McDonald. Hopefully, 1 of those 5 can be high-end starter.

 

[Lunatik]

Goaltenders & waivers over the past 4 years (that is as far back as daily faceoff goes). Learned that my Joey MacDonald stat was technically wrong, but still relevant

2014/15
Bryzgalov - Cleared
Bryzgalov - Cleared
Nabokov - Claimed by Sharks so that he could retire a Shark
Hackett - Cleared
LaBarbera - Cleared
Harding - Cleared
Budaj - Cleared (training camp)
Markstrom - Cleared (training camp)

2013/14
Dubnyk - Cleared
LaBarbera - Cleared
MacDonald - Cleared
Biron - Cleared
Clemmensen - Cleared (training camp)
Peters - Cleared (training camp)

2012/13
MacIntyre - Cleared
DiPietro - Cleared
MacDoanld - Claimed by Flames due to injuries
Hoivinen - Claimed by Oilers on Unconditional waivers which allowed them to send him to the AHL

2011/12
Conklin - Cleared re-entry waivers
Caron - Cleared
Turco - Cleared
Hutton - Cleared
Conlkin - Cleared
Nittymaki - Cleared
McElhinney - Cleared re-entry waivers
Peters - Cleared re-entry waivers
Deslauriers - Cleared (training camp)
MacDonald - Cleared (training camp)
Peters - Cleared
Pogge - Cleared
MacIntyre - Cleared


So in 4 years goaltenders have been placed on waivers 31 times (if I counted right ), 3 times they were claimed, two being extenuating circumstances where the player never played in the NHL. So it's more like 1/29 (or 3.45%) were claimed because Nabby was due to retirement and a nice gesture and that guy the Oilers claimed played in the ECHL & AHL and wouldn't have been claimed if he had to be in the NHL.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Just to further the discussion: Do you guys think that either Hiller or Rämö would get claimed? I don´t think that either of them will be sent down but there is also the (probably marginal) chance that Ortio convinces the coaches in camp and earns his spot.

I think no, because it's hard to suddenly set aside that cap space in such a short timeframe. I am sure some teams would like to take a flyer on either of them, but having to absorb that caphit without any other moves would be hard for most teams I think.

I am also of the opinion that Flames management would never pay them to play in the minors. At most we would see a Kotalik situation where we ended up paying through the teeth to get rid of him.

Much easier (if Ortio wins a spot) to send Ortio through waivers, until one of the others can be traded. Or, even better, trade one of the two before the season starts so Ortio doesn't need to pass though waivers. I think the second situation is unlikely though.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

Hiller would get claimed I think. Don't know if Ramo would

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Last two years:
48-21-1 AHL
8-6 NHL

Bust

Why does "not ready" = "bust" in your mind? Or if you prefer, substitute "not ready" for "not earned a job in the NHL"

Or is it "always earned, never given, unless you are waiver eligible"?

 

[Lunatik]

Much easier (if Ortio wins a spot) to send Ortio through waivers, until one of the others can be traded. Or, even better, trade one of the two before the season starts so Ortio doesn't need to pass though waivers. I think the second situation is unlikely though.

I see this as a posibility