Our Future In Goal

[Taranis]

So what happens if Ortio goes on waivers and gets picked up and Hiller and Ramo don't resign?

 

[Lunatik]

So what happens if Ortio goes on waivers and gets picked up and Hiller and Ramo don't resign?

Sign a UFA stopgap, which is exactly what Hiller and Ramo are.

 

[Taranis]

the UFA goalie market didn't exactly happen this year, who would we sign.

 

[Mobiandi]

Honestly even if Ortio likely clears waivers, I'd still rather move one of Ramo and Hiller. I didn't like this tandem one bit last season and whether we work out a trade for another goalie or promote Ortio into a back-up role is all the same to me. We need consistency in net and I hope we put an end to this flip-flopping between goalies. Ortio has shown he's not completely out of his depth in the NHL, and a back-up role could serve his development very well and also allow management to better gauge his future in Calgary. That said, another year in the AHL wouldn't hamper his progress either and seeking a temp. stop-gap in a back-up role wouldn't hurt either.

The point is, there needs to be more competition for the starting role. We were too content with letting Ramo and Hiller fall back on each other throughout the regular season and neither really stole the show for too long. It would also help the players have more confidence in our goalies. Worrying about which Hiller shows up, for example isn't something we need.

 

[Calculon]

Ortio would likely clear waivers but he's definitely underrated around here. His call up to Calgary and his injury later on were big reasons why the Adirondack Flames collapsed down the stretch. There's a very good chance he's one of the top two goalies in training camp and forces Treliving's hand to move one of Ramo/Hiller.

And Irving was a prime example of horrible mismanagement by an inept GM who wouldn't act professionally in this case. Not surprising his confidence was low when the front office was consistently showing they had no faith in his abilities.

 

[Lunatik]

Ortio is far from underrated around here, if anything he's massively overrated.

 

[Taranis]

I don't know about overrated, I think everyone likes that internally we have Ortio - McDonald - Gillies as a future in that order based on potential.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Theissen is a terrible goaltender, he is not good enough to hold down the fort in the AHL if Gillies is injured or recalled.

Thiessen is a good AHL veteran backup who has been an AHL All-star. That is why he was signed last year. One rough season behind a limited (Cundari, Acolatse, Ramage, Stevenson), called-up (Potter, Wotherspoon) and green (Culkin, Sieloff, Kulak) defense core doesn't all of a sudden make him a terrible goaltender. It does hamper his leverage in contract negotiations though.

And despite the inconsistency, Thiessen still had a lot of strong games especially early on when the team played well. And no, an AHL backup is not expected to hold down the fort if the AHL starter is injured or recalled.

 

[Lunatik]

Thiessen is a good AHL veteran backup who has been an AHL All-star. That is why he was signed last year. One rough season behind a limited (Cundari, Acolatse, Ramage, Stevenson), called-up (Potter, Wotherspoon) and green (Culkin, Sieloff, Kulak) defense core doesn't all of a sudden make him a terrible goaltender. It does hamper his leverage in contract negotiations though.

And despite the inconsistency, Thiessen still had a lot of strong games especially early on when the team played well. And no, an AHL backup is not expected to hold down the fort if the AHL starter is injured or recalled.

Theissen was ****ing terrible. Spin it however you like, a goaltender's job is to give his team a chance to win. He never did that. I don't know what happened in his single great AHL season, but he showed nothing of the sort this year.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

You have selective memory.

When the team in front of him played well, and stayed out of the penalty box, Thiessen played well enough to give the team a chance. He gave them a chance pretty much every game in the first half of the season, about before Potter or Wotherspoon got called up.

No, he wasn't half as good as Ortio at single-handedly carrying the team - because Ortio is much better than you think he is. Which is also why you're wrong that Ortio is "massively overrated".

 

[Lunatik]

Paint it however you like, Theissen was terrible and while Ortio was quite good he will still clear waivers

 

[The Red Mile]

Gillies will be our starter of the future.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Paint it however you like, Theissen was terrible and while Ortio was quite good he will still clear waivers

You still haven't said why Ortio is not good....

Saying because Leeland Irving and Dan Thomas were never good enough to play in the NHL is a pretty weak argument.

I could say: John Quick was a successful AHL goalie... Therefor Joni Ortio will be an all star calibre goalie. --> pretty weak argument.

 

[Anglesmith]

You still haven't said why Ortio is not good....

You literally just quoted him saying "Ortio was quite good."

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

You literally just quoted him saying "Ortio was quite good."

Yet not good enough to be worth a 7th rounder...

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Yet not good enough to be worth a 7th rounder...

Where was that said?

 

[Lunatik]

Yet not good enough to be worth a 7th rounder...

apparently you fail to understand the difference between waivers and trade

 

[Anglesmith]

As an analogy, just because I drive to work, it does not mean I'm okay with getting in a car crash. Similarly, just because the GM or a poster might be okay with putting a guy on waivers to send him down, it does not mean he's okay with the guy being claimed. The probability of these things actually happening has to be factored in. 100TG believes that probability is very low, and that is what underlies his whole argument here.

 

[Lunatik]

As an analogy, just because I drive to work, it does not mean I'm okay with getting in a car crash. Similarly, just because the GM or a poster might be okay with putting a guy on waivers to send him down, it does not mean he's okay with the guy being claimed. The probability of these things actually happening has to be factored in. 100TG believes that probability is very low, and that is what underlies his whole argument here.

Exactly. I believe the plan is to sneak him through waivers like teams do with many prospects on the final days of camp. I think the Flames would like him to clear and use him as an emergency recall if there are injuries.

 

[Buttonwood]

I like Gillies the most of this group. But goalies are extremely hard to predict...so the easiest thing is probably make cases for and against for each and apply Buttonwood's proprietary Hannu Toivonen Ranking (TM)- without a doubt THE best goalie prospect ever.

1) Gillies
For: Great combination of size and skills, moves well for his size, solid technical ability, winner and solid mental make-up
Against: Some awkwardness movement (size related). Played on a defense-first team collegiately (a 93% svp would not be that high otherwise).

Buttonwood Hot-Take: Needs a more diverse resume (pro, international) before he can be anointed the GOF (Goaltender of the Future). Getting significant AHL time is exactly what the doctor ordered in his development... so feeling good about him. 4.33 Hannu Toivonen's out of 5)

2) Ortio
For: Pretty good pro experience, most athletic and the closest to the show of the 3, a Fin
Against: Moves small sometimes, redundant with Ramo, projects more to a 1B replacement level guy than franchise building block.

Buttonwood Hot-Take: I'm glad he's in the system. Still young in G-years and has some upside, he is the bridge from the present to the future. Hopefully he can prove himself an NHLer this year and continue to improve. He does need to work on his positioning/size. (3.75 Hannu Toivonen's out of 5)

3) MacDonald
For: Has all of the tools, has a heavy workload in the Q and seems to handle it well, lots of 'upside'
Against: Still a long way away/difficult to project, doesn't really have a 'wow' factor (IMO)

Buttonwood Hot-Take: Too young to make a call. Generally dislike investing 2nd's on 18 year old goalies when they could be anything by 23-24, but he adds nice depth to the most critical position. Theoretically, read for the AHL as Gillies graduates to the NHL. (3.5 Hannu Toivonen's out of 5)

 

[Calculon]

Could easily see Ortio/Gilles as being the Flames version of Quick/Bernier.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Could easily see Ortio/Gilles as being the Flames version of Quick/Bernier.

And MacDonald can be our Jones.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Could easily see Ortio/Gilles as being the Flames version of Quick/Bernier.

I agree. Too early to count out Ortio.

Ortio will not make it through waivers. 100% guarantee. Players that are claimed on waivers can be stashed in the minors for a full season. So you guys are telling me that no team in the league would claim Ortio and stash him in the minors, with the only price to pay is a roster spot and his salary?
Lunacy

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

And MacDonald can be our Jones.

And then he ends up in Edmonton?

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I'm not sure about that. I was at Leland's win in Vancouver, and he was spectacular, but never looked confident. I was also at Ortio's shutout in Vancouver, and he looked very composed. Add into that that in the games after, you saw quite a few systematic technical flaws. Ortio looked like an NHL goalie, and only ran into trouble in one game where the team got absolutely run over in Anaheim.

I agree on Irving: he always looked like he was a little out-of-control. Some goalies make it work (Thomas), but most don't. He gave up rebounds like party favours, too.

I agree. Too early to count out Ortio.

Ortio will not make it through waivers. 100% guarantee. Players that are claimed on waivers can be stashed in the minors for a full season. So you guys are telling me that no team in the league would claim Ortio and stash him in the minors, with the only price to pay is a roster spot and his salary?
Lunacy

If a player is claimed off of waivers they have to be placed on waivers again in order to play in the minors. They can't just be immediately stashed there.