Ottawa Sun "You Be The Boss Survey"

[Ice-Tray]

I'm hopeful we sign all 3 at a hometown discount, as that is what would be best for the Sens in the short term.

I don't believe a franchise can have players taking a hometown discount as a cornerstone to their plan, especially if they aren't willing to spend to the cap to be competitive.

I think 10-11 million for EK and around 8 for both Stone and Duchene are solid offers that shouldn't been called hometown discounts.

Players do have to balance wanting to win with maxing out personal earnings, but none of those deals would be considered below 'market' value, or at least significantly enough to be called a hometown discount. That's a lot of dough on 3 players, but I would do it. Stone is my biggest concern because he's injured more than the rest, at the worst times.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Nothing that has been said so far has indicated that though. I mean, if it happened it would obviously absolve some of the blame on EM, but it also seems unrealistic based on everything we know right now.

Both sides have indicated wanting him to stay, but EK can always use the change of scenery to change his mind. I agree that it doesn't seem likely, and I think he will be signed.

The only complication is if he wants to stay, but also wants 12+ million, that's where the water gets muddy, and it's not just an cheap Ottawa Senators issue. That's a lot of dough for 8 years and it would be in our best interests if PD at the very least let teams pitch their best offers.

 

[Sensung]

I think 10-11 million for EK and around 8 for both Stone and Duchene are solid offers that shouldn't been called hometown discounts.

Players do have to balance wanting to win with maxing out personal earnings, but none of those deals would be considered below 'market' value, or at least significantly enough to be called a hometown discount. That's a lot of dough on 3 players, but I would do it. Stone is my biggest concern because he's injured more than the rest, at the worst times.

10-11 M is well below market value. If EK signs for that, then he is taking a hometown discount and should be praised accordingly.

 

[stempniaksen]

Both sides have indicated wanting him to stay, but EK can always use the change of scenery to change his mind. I agree that it doesn't seem likely, and I think he will be signed.

The only complication is if he wants to stay, but also wants 12+ million, that's where the water gets muddy, and it's not just an cheap Ottawa Senators issue. That's a lot of dough for 8 years and it would be in our best interests if PD at the very least let teams pitch their best offers.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions the organization have taken when it comes to EK don't really seem like moves made by a team looking to sign it's franchise player at all costs. I'll be happy to eat crow if we sign him to a reasonable deal, but I'm not willing to believe the team's PR at face value until that moment.

 

[Ice-Tray]

10-11 M is well below market value. If EK signs for that, then he is taking a hometown discount and should be praised accordingly.

I'm not so sure about that. 12.5 is a much younger McDavid, I think EK is nicely compensated at between 10-11 million per season.

Either way, we can all argue the minutia if and when he is locked up.

 

[Ice-Tray]

[QUOTE="Ice-Tray, post: 144779209, member: 33849"]Both sides have indicated wanting him to stay, but EK can always use the change of scenery to change his mind. I agree that it doesn't seem likely, and I think he will be signed.

The only complication is if he wants to stay, but also wants 12+ million, that's where the water gets muddy, and it's not just an cheap Ottawa Senators issue. That's a lot of dough for 8 years and it would be in our best interests if PD at the very least let teams pitch their best offers.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions the organization have taken when it comes to EK don't really seem like moves made by a team looking to sign it's franchise player at all costs. I'll be happy to eat crow if we sign him to a reasonable deal, but I'm not willing to believe the team's PR at face value until that moment.[/QUOTE]

I think I agree with you.

I think they have been noncommittal, with an eye for exploring what a trade would look like. I think PD played that all out like a rookie and it backfired. In an attempt to be open and forthwith he created an explosion of worry and confusion. It's funny, we talk about GMs being more open, but the tried and true "we'll get a deal done" only to trade the guy, may not be the most honest answer, but it avoids the entire shitshow that we're endured.

I think they want to sign him, I think they know it will be a massive financial and time commitment, and I think they want to explore all options, especially if the price gets close to max dollars. This is the right course of action in my opinion, but I now agree that the best GM response it to say "we're signing him" and then privately and quietly go about the business of exploring whats best for the organization.

 

[Micklebot]

Guys and Gals:

I get that tensions can get high, but if you can't discuss the topic without getting personal, I'm too lazy to wade through and edit posts to meet an acceptable level of civility, so I'm gonna throw the baby out with the bath water and nuke the whole post. You're free to re-post any good points you may have made so long as you leave the personal jabs out of it.

If I missed any crap (as there was a lot of it) feel free to report it, and if I deleted something you feel should have stayed up, sorry it got caught in the net, but I don't have the patience required to go back post by post and fine tune them to be acceptable.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'm good with it, it was a mess.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Welp the last q's results speak volumes, can't really spin it, the fans have spoken and identified the owner as the main problem and have directly stated they would buy tickets if he was no longer involved!

 

[topshelf15]

I dont there is a fan here that would care if EM made 10 billion dollars off the team,but at least give us something more than we are broke all the f***en time...We have listend to that shit for over 25 f***en years

 

[Heady Topper]

I dont there is a fan here that would care if EM made 10 billion dollars off the team,but at least give us something more than we are broke all the ****en time...We have listend to that **** for over 25 ****en years

Also, Melnyk started his "Budget team" schtick while attendance was still high, so he has no base to blame it on fans not showing up. He was broke before that. You can't tell fans you're a budget team for years then wonder why we've turned into budget fans. Anyone with half a brain could've predicted this.

 

[BonkTastic]

I'm too lazy to wade through and edit posts to meet an acceptable level of civility, so I'm gonna throw the baby out with the bath water and nuke the whole post.

I don't know whether to be proud that you are following in my footsteps as a mod, or angry that you're stealing my bit.

 

[Sensung]

I'm not so sure about that. 12.5 is a much younger McDavid, I think EK is nicely compensated at between 10-11 million per season.

Either way, we can all argue the minutia if and when he is locked up.

Agree to disagree.

We will be able to do a far more direct comparison with Doughty once he signs.

 

[coladin]

I haven't been back for long and haven't noticed you posting anything over the top, but I think he's pointing out that Melnyk apologists have been proven wrong time and time again and make it a point to ignore the facts. I mean, it's pretty evident and is clearly done on purpose because it gets a reaction out of some posters, but nonetheless, takes away any credibility said apologists might've had left. Nonetheless, making excuses for Melnyk is counterproductive at this point and anyone doing so are really the ones wasting their time.

Hey look! Another poster coming in with " you are either with the militia, or against us" routine! Let the Civil War continue!

 

[Baringham]

I'm not so sure about that. 12.5 is a much younger McDavid, I think EK is nicely compensated at between 10-11 million per season.

Either way, we can all argue the minutia if and when he is locked up.

EK's agent can argue a good case that he should be paid much more than McDavid. Most of McDavid's contract is being paid during his RFA years and he is still making 12.5. EK's next contract is all during his UFA years. Also, McDavid gets paid 10.75 on July 1 every year of his contract as a bonus. The remaining 1.75 is salary paid out during the year. Can EM pay 10.75 before the season even starts? The contract between the NHL and NHLPA expires in 2022 and most people feel there will be another strike. I believe that the players still keep their bonus even if there is a strike. Can EM pay out 10.75 and then have a whole season cancelled with no revenue. These things all have to be considered.

 

[NyQuil]

I don't know whether to be proud that you are following in my footsteps as a mod, or angry that you're stealing my bit.

You were a mod? And you're still posting?

Pretty shameful.

You're like Marleau after they removed his "C" in San Jose.

 

[Ice-Tray]

EK's agent can argue a good case that he should be paid much more than McDavid. Most of McDavid's contract is being paid during his RFA years and he is still making 12.5. EK's next contract is all during his UFA years. Also, McDavid gets paid 10.75 on July 1 every year of his contract as a bonus. The remaining 1.75 is salary paid out during the year. Can EM pay 10.75 before the season even starts? The contract between the NHL and NHLPA expires in 2022 and most people feel there will be another strike. I believe that the players still keep their bonus even if there is a strike. Can EM pay out 10.75 and then have a whole season cancelled with no revenue. These things all have to be considered.

I don't think so, McDavid is much younger than EK and a better hockey player than EK. I don't see any way that EK's agent could rationally argue that EK is worth more. The bonus money I agree is an issue, if there is a lockout.

At some point the club has to decide what the maximum single contract they can give out to a player and still maintain a competitive club. Cap teams and budget teams both have to decide. If the team decides that 11 million a season is that limit, I'm ok with that personally.

Like many others we have an internal budget that is enough to keep us competitive, and can ramp up for a run, but I'm not a big fan of a single player eating too much of the budget, especially for the next 8 years, that stretch deep into his 30's.

Either way the time is now. We can cash in huge on EK, or we push all of our chips in on him. If we get Dahlin, do we go with Chabot, Dahlin, and the wealth of riches we get from EK. Tough call if EK is looking for a potentially crippling amount.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Agree to disagree.

We will be able to do a far more direct comparison with Doughty once he signs.

Sure, but after a quick 4 and done this year and it will be interesting to see if the Kings cripple themselves going forward like the Blackhawks, or if they too look to cash in get a multitude of good assets a tier lower.

Vegas and Nashville are interesting teams to watch, amongst others. Teams that have a bunch of excellent players, but not double digit millions guys to clog the budget.

I mean there are teams to support all types of builds, but if you want a deep team that can run 4 lines etc... You have to be careful of how much money you give out.

We might see some of these guys starting a trend of pricing themselves off their teams.

 

[JD1]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions the organization have taken when it comes to EK don't really seem like moves made by a team looking to sign it's franchise player at all costs. I'll be happy to eat crow if we sign him to a reasonable deal, but I'm not willing to believe the team's PR at face value until that moment.

i don't think the team said they are willing to sign him at all costs

 

[stempniaksen]

Sure, but after a quick 4 and done this year and it will be interesting to see if the Kings cripple themselves going forward like the Blackhawks, or if they too look to cash in get a multitude of good assets a tier lower.

Vegas and Nashville are interesting teams to watch, amongst others. Teams that have a bunch of excellent players, but not double digit millions guys to clog the budget.

I mean there are teams to support all types of builds, but if you want a deep team that can run 4 lines etc... You have to be careful of how much money you give out.

We might see some of these guys starting a trend of pricing themselves off their teams.

Nashville literally has the highest paid defenceman in the league on their roster at the moment. Bit of a silly example to use. I realize he doesn't make "double digits" but It's about as close as possible.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Again, when talking about the McDavid contract, remember Connor himself took less than what Edmonton originally offered. He gave the Oilers a discount. That was not a market value contract.

20-year-old Connor McDavid asked for less money in his new $100 million contract so the Oilers could build a better team around him

 

[Dino Tkachuk]

Nashville literally has the highest paid defenceman in the league on their roster at the moment. Bit of a silly example to use. I realize he doesn't make "double digits" but It's about as close as possible.

I posted this a couple weeks ago but I'll say it again. I did some quick research (so correct if I'm wrong) but other than the Penguins (who have a generational talent in Crosby), no other team has won a Cup with a player having a cap hit of more than $8M per. Now this is bound to change as the cap goes up but interesting none the less...

I'm not saying we should trade Karlsson but we do need to think long and hard about this, perhaps even more so since we are a budget team.

Let's see if Nashville can do it this year to make it two...

 

[Sensung]

I don't think so, McDavid is much younger than EK and a better hockey player than EK. I don't see any way that EK's agent could rationally argue that EK is worth more. The bonus money I agree is an issue, if there is a lockout.

Ignoring RFA vs UFA status is irrational.
Ignoring the rising cap is irrational.
Ignoring Karlsson's ability to play half the game and tilt the ice like no other player is irrational.
If you think Karlsson's agent can't make a "rational" case for at least matching McDavid's 12.5 you are kidding yourself.

At some point the club has to decide what the maximum single contract they can give out to a player and still maintain a competitive club. Cap teams and budget teams both have to decide. If the team decides that 11 million a season is that limit, I'm ok with that personally.

What the team decides with regards to this has ZERO effect on Karlsson's market value. A 10-11M dollar deal is a hometown discount. EK would get far more if he holds out until UFA status next summer.

Like many others we have an internal budget that is enough to keep us competitive, and can ramp up for a run, but I'm not a big fan of a single player eating too much of the budget, especially for the next 8 years, that stretch deep into his 30's.

The bolded part has been proven to be pure and unadulterated BULLSHIT and is one of the many reasons few still trust Melnyk.

Either way the time is now. We can cash in huge on EK, or we push all of our chips in on him. If we get Dahlin, do we go with Chabot, Dahlin, and the wealth of riches we get from EK. Tough call if EK is looking for a potentially crippling amount.

We can't "cash in huge" on Karlsson if we attach salary dumps to any deal.

If our owner can't pay market value for our generational player, he has no business owning a team and should sell immediately.

 

[BonkTastic]

You're like Marleau after they removed his "C" in San Jose.

Well, I stepped down as a mod willingly... I suppose in that case I'm more like Luongo?

 

[Ice-Tray]

Nashville literally has the highest paid defenceman in the league on their roster at the moment. Bit of a silly example to use. I realize he doesn't make "double digits" but It's about as close as possible.

That's why I chose to include them. 9 million is not 12 million or more.