Ottawa Senators : Darkest Hour

[Pierre from Orleans]

Yes and some guys have short fuses and are entitled little boys.

The likelihood of some players reaching their limit is much more plausible in this scenario than having their 'short' fuses go off

 

[Xspyrit]

If finances are an issue, Melnyk could sell. He could bring in a partner. He isn't, he's just claiming the team is a burden financially and blaming the market/fanbase for it.

Could he be waiting for the new arena downtown to sell? But then, if it is so interesting with new stream revenues, he won't want to sell anyway?

His strategy seems to be lowering costs to make the franchise more attractive? Does it makes sense? A NHL franchise is not a traditional business, like you noted it is associated with much more than operating income and revenues. My question is what is his evil plan? lol or is he just too greedy?

I haven't read the Lebreton thread, but is the construction underway? What is going on with that? The sooner, the better as it could change everything and maybe, hopefully, finally be a cap team and stop lowering trade returns to save money...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Could he be waiting for the new arena downtown to sell? But then, if it is so interesting with new stream revenues, he won't want to sell anyway?

His strategy seems to be lowering costs to make the franchise more attractive? Does it makes sense? A NHL franchise is not a traditional business, like you noted it is associated with much more than operating income and revenues. My question is what is his evil plan? lol or is he just too greedy?

I haven't read the Lebreton thread, but is the construction underway? What is going on with that? The sooner, the better as it could change everything and maybe, hopefully, finally be a cap team and stop lowering trade returns to save money...

I do believe they need to detox the area before any construction gets started. And I figure that means environmental assessments and all that lovely red tape beforehand.

 

[inthewings]

I haven’t seen things this bad, and I’ve been watching since they made the playoffs for the first time ever.

They’ve had worse teams. But my perception right now is that they’ll never be a world class organization as long as Melnyk owns the team. I feel like the problem isn’t a coach or front office - it’s the owner infecting every area of the team: he won’t spend to bury contracts, he won’t spend on a top scouting staff, he won’t spend on a top coaching, he won’t spend on a top front office. And to make matters worse, he embarrasses himself every time he opens his mouth.

We have a situation where the owner won’t run the team in a way likely to yield long term success, and the fans and players have realized it. It’s ugly. It feels hopeless. In the past, for this team and my other team (the Jays) I’ve always thought the team was in a good place, or thought they were a new GM away. I’ve never before cheered for a team that I think is an owner away from respectability.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Yes and some guys have short fuses and are entitled little boys.

Yep it's can't be that the owner that has the short fuse and an entitles little brat. It's not the sole denominator that links all these players that is the problem, it's the players faults!!

I love HFboards sometimes, it's the only place on Earth where you would find Melnyk sympathisers and apologists lol.

 

[BLONG7]

Would you like to have an owner who enjoys getting involved with hockey ops? We could trade...

Sens and Habs are both struggling with different, yet similar things going on this year...

Molson on the surface seems to be a hands off owner, where as Uncle Eugyne is becoming a big hands on guy....seems to be no happy medium...

 

[BLONG7]

NOT true.

NHL GM has been shut down by owner after another bad trade.

The jury is out on Big Georges and his insider info?

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

I think the perfect ownership would be hands off, and they hire a hockey of president ops that is hands on with the GM and communicates the owners message to the GM, Bryan Murray somewhat acted that role before his passing and one of his greatest skills was able to handle our egomaniac owner. Bless his soul.

 

[CanadianHockey]

This is nothing new.
Hossa demanded (and got) market value. Traded.
Havlat asked for market value. Traded.
Chara asked for market value. Let walk as a FA.
Alfie.... stayed for years under market value. They never bothered to pay the man, so he left.

The only difference this time is everybody knows Karlsson is a sure-fire HOFer and if thats not enough to finally say "Ok fine. Market value is totally fair." then what is?

Chara was moved because there wasn't enough cap to sign him and Redden both. There were plenty of arguments in favour of retaining either guy, and Redden at the time came cheaper. Nobody predicted Redden's decline (although many predicted Chara's greatness).

Havlat was, from what I recall, a pure cap casualty, rather than a salary / money issue. Cap was newly implemented, he was a young, promising RFA due for a raise and we didn't look like we could fit him into our cap structure. He asked for a one year deal so he could test UFA waters, so we moved him to recoup value.

 

[DueDiligence]

Yep it's can't be that the owner that has the short fuse and an entitles little brat. It's not the sole denominator that links all these players that is the problem, it's the players faults!!

I love HFboards sometimes, it's the only place on Earth where you would find Melnyk sympathisers and apologists lol.

Your logic is baffling! Because I point out some players are entitled obviously means I think Melnyk is the best owner ever????
Maybe I think both management ( including Melnyk) and some players are at fault here.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Or maybe it's just the owner, these players weren't problems before until they got to this organization. Maybe your whole "both sides" crappy stant on things is more baffeling.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I think fans are up in arms at the fact that what they tried didn't work and they didn't have a contingency plan. Some of the moves were questionable.

Yeah... that really never happens in professional sports. LOL

Use your energy on something positive.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Yeah... that really never happens in professional sports. LOL

Use your energy on something positive.

Why can’t people be both understanding of the fact that we had an “all-in” plan and upset that it quite obviously backfired?

The dichotomy is tiresome.

 

[ottawah]

Is Melnyk cutting all this payroll to help pay for the new arena or something?

Btw I've never seen a team intentionally tank a season away with no 1st round pick. Truly mind blowing lol

The team is really limited in how much payroll it can cut to get to the floor. Floor is 55M, sens cap at 72M. Granted that not real dollars, but assuming it is at least close, carving 17M of the payroll only covers ~2.5% of new arena.

So no, they cannot cut payroll so low as to make even a minor contribution to the new rink.

 

[ottawah]

This is not a strong market, or at least it hasn't been for the past 25 years.

No, but its not been weak either. We had an 11 year run averaging close to 19K fans, very few teams can make that claim. Also counters the argument that the arena is in a bad location. Not ideal, but not bad.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Well, players not getting a paycheck, Alfie handing money back so we could get Varada, and Bryden potentially moving the team was kinda worse. I’ve been a fan since 93.

Bryden was always a professional and came off as believable though, Melnyk is like a whole other beast.

 

[ottawah]

I do not feel any higher level of despair than at some times in the past. At the end of the Bryden era the players were not getting paid on time, the local high tech economy was falling down, and no one in town had the money to take on the team. It was 50/50 if it was going to move.

I personally am not over reacting to the current situation. IMHO the team has been going downhill for a few years. People like to point out we were a goal from the stanley cup finals last year as a reason to make the team look good. But in all honestly I think we just had a good run (all teams have those) at the most opportune time. The truth is we barely squeaked into the playoffs, we had the only negative goal differential of playoff teams, and we were the 2nd oldest team in the league. Many pundits questioned whether Ottawa would even make the playoffs this year. There has been the smell of rebuild here for 18 months, it just come to fruition.

Also we have to realize that the management aspect that is contributing greatly to the demise of the fan confidence in the team has been building for 18 months, and likely would have been more front and center if not for the run in the playoffs. the team picture taken at the start of the 2016/17 season featured an executive row that were all gone within 8 months A complete turnover. It probably would have been a more noticeable issue if the team had missed the playoffs. But the churn kept going on, and is still ongoing today. To me the negativity on management/ownership that should have been building for 18 months seems to have been condensed into several months, making the drop off in confidence appear much more steep than it probably should have been.

As for losing Karlsson, if the indications are from him to management (and we cannot know this) that he will not be resigning in Ottawa, then now is the time to trade him. It is just prudent asset management. It could be as simple as Karlsson saying he will not resign for any less than 10M, and the team does not want to pay it. It does not even have to be a money issue. To be honest there is no way I am signing this guy to an 10M 8 year deal. Aside from the fact he would be 37 when the deal is over, for this year he has not been playing like a 10M dollar D man. In fact far less. He has been terrible defensively to the point his additions on offense hardly make up for it. We are not a better team if he leaves, obviously, but can any team afford to saddle themselves to a contract like that for a player who may be a shadow of his former self? If we cannot win with Karlsson for the next few years when at least maybe we can get equal value for his contract, and his contract becomes a boat anchor when the rebuild starts to look good, it could all be for naught. Mind you the flip side is trading Karlsson will alienate so many fans that attendance will likely drop so bad there would be concerns about the future. Maybe if management would have been up front and explained the situation like the Rangers did the fans may be a bit more appreciative, but they have not.

So no I do not feel the lowest I have ever felt. But there is quite some time for this to play out, and the next 18 months are likely to be worse, not better.

 

[JD1]

It's seriously at the point where I need a different hobby or sport to keep me distracted from everything that is **** with this organization. I can't commit myself to care about another NHL team, so right now my hopes lie with the Raptors.

So far just because the inept of this ownership and management we have lost the following players

Alfie
Spezza
Alfie again
Methot
Turris
And now Karlsson.

ok...sure ....you can look at it that way if it helps you sleep at night

Alfie was 39 years old, broken down, and not sure year to year if he could keep playing. He left and he played a role in his leaving, if through nothing else then thru the will he or won't he play. Spezza got run out of town more by people like you that complain about everything than by management. He got tired of the fans....you know the negative nellies. Methot - the league had an expansion draft and like 30 other teams we lost a player. You can say we got screwed the hardest if you want but i'm thinking some other teams lost some pretty good players too given Vegas is sitting 1st in the est and Method is on injury reserve in dallas. Phaneuf wouldn't waive, Ceci ahead of Methot due to age, 7 forwars ahead of 4 d - the options get pretty damn slim. Turris - there's absolutely NOTHING inept about deciding yo don't want to go 6 by 6 with an aging, small, skinny NHL player. He might have been your favourite and frankly i don't care but not extending him to a 6 or more year deal is a decision they made and it isn't one you can lump in with inept.

I'm not surprised you complain all the time....you mentioned being a raptors fan....that makes you a young un....so i guess your not doing anything that your generation isn't already tagged with

 

[thinkwild]

So the dressing room story we heard of because someone, we dont know who, leaked it to Yost? In hindsight, things that have happened really fit the idea that the last couple of years has been pointing to this. Going for it before EK's new contract so that if we had won he would stay. Mika’s and Kyle’s contracts were both trading potential long term contract jams for contracts that expired around the time that EK’s would. Maxing out on whatever it takes to do something before this point.

You can also make a brutally honest and difficult decision that getting a solid rebuild return for EK is the right move at the right time. It offers the hope of a long term rebuild the right way, as we tried when we first came into the league, except now we are starting from a far superior starting point. Give Donald Melnyk a chance, he may be an idiot, but he might get some things right. This can work, we dont have to make it that dark, once the mourning is over i guess.

 

[JD1]

Yep it's can't be that the owner that has the short fuse and an entitles little brat. It's not the sole denominator that links all these players that is the problem, it's the players faults!!

I love HFboards sometimes, it's the only place on Earth where you would find Melnyk sympathisers and apologists lol.

it's not an issue of apologizing for anyone .....Melnyk had nothgin to do with whatever happened in that dressing room....how do you blame it on Melnyk?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

This place is turning very quickly into a lynch mob mentality

 

[DueDiligence]

Or maybe it's just the owner, these players weren't problems before until they got to this organization. Maybe your whole "both sides" crappy stant on things is more baffeling.

Hmmm 1) Turris holdout in Arizona. Model citizen right?
2) Phaneuf - A dressing room cancer in Calgary and captain of Leafs when they gave the fans the middle finger. Another quality guy!
And we all know about Burrows issues before he ever arrived.
Just face the facts that many players have issues too and some handle things and life better than others.

 

[harrisb]

 

[Xspyrit]

Speaking of players with issues, I listened to Sylvain St.Laurent on Montreal sports radio yesterday and apparently Mike Hoffman is a locker room issue

 

[Harryhausen]

The arguing back and forth is predictable. To me, it is almost like politics - you stick with your side to the bitter end. So you have apologists/defenders and then you have people (like myself) who see what is going on here. The fact that the NHL is allowing these cash for draft pick deals surprises me. I have followed this team from inception and have been on these boards for 15 years (though I rarely post). I lived in Ottawa when the Senators were re-born but eventually had to move to Toronto because I work in sports media (I have worked for every major outlet; CBC, TSN, SN, The Score) and still work for one of them. I have had to endure all those playoff losses to the leafs while working in sports and getting razzed on a daily basis by rabid leaf homers who I have worked with. But I have always been a fan of the team.

For me, what is happening has become apparent. The owner is worse than even Harold Ballard. The organization is in disarray. There are hard feelings everywhere. I have some inside knowledge as to what is going on but frankly I don't need it. What is happening is obvious. This team is going down the drain trying to save the owner every last buck. Meanwhile, we have an top 3 player, sure hall of famer, someone who is a joy to watch both for his talent but also his drive and courage ... and yea, he is going to be sold too. When that happens, I will have finally had it with this current FO. I will become a fan of the team that EK is traded too (unless it is the leafs or pens). I would love to see Erik succeed in the playoffs whether it is with the sharks, lighning, oilers or whomever. BTW, I know some might reply "good riddance", don't bother - I won't get into a pissing match. For me, it is clear as day what is happening and I am confused by those who don't see it. Final note of this rant, F*** you Melnyk, sell the team.