Ottawa 67's 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)

[mianjo]

I believe they stayed overnight in Niagara

I'm sure who ever was commentating on the game (Walls?) said they drove to Mississauga.

 

[beastintheeast]

Why would we want or need a 19 year old goalie not in the league with basically zero OHL experience? I know you mentioned picks but basically that is jsut a picks deal which is fine but I think we are in a position now where Donoso cannot be reasonably traded for nothing in return.

I want him to find a place to play full time as a starter but if there is a team willing to have him as a starter, they need to at least provide a fair return. No team is going to do it out of charity meaning there isn’t a team out there that are fine for goaltending and are not in a need and decide to add donoso because they feel bad for him. The team that takes him would feel he is an upgrade on what they currently have otherwise they wouldn’t’ trade for him. In that situation, the 67’s need to get a fair return. I think the 3rd and 5th is a viable return for a capable top 10 starter as an OA. Downey is worth nothing, not even a 15th round pick.

But he gives us a backup that we can use. Also, he has played 26 games in the OHL with Erie and had a

3.79

.872

0

8-14-0

The only reason I can see Kingston not using him is that they have some sort of agreement with Salajko senior. His sitting on the bench all year doesn't even make sense to people in Kingston. Getting an OA in Kingston would mean that Vaccari could get a breather and would be the starter next year, hopefully with a better backup.

it really wasn't supposed to make sense for the '67s. In one sentence Beast says Vicaari is not the answer this season or next, then suggested a '67s OA G should be acquired


counter with Downey, Callens, '27-14th for Donoso; the '67s can eat cards and waive the players

You seem to have missed something What I said was that you cannot go into next year with the same duo. Salajko may have what it takes, but sitting on he bench is not going to develop him or make him any better than he is now.
Picking up Donoso or a goalie like him would allow Vaccari to share the load or take less of a load this year. It would also mean that Salajko gets the much-needed game time to regain his edge and play actual games

As to our trade proposal

OMG states it well: Callen is not our issue, and no, we do not need him. If, in fact, we did not need a backup goalie for MacK, then Downey would not be in the picture. This should be a pick's trade and throw Downey in to maybe lower the pick value

 

[beastintheeast]

I know nothing of the background, but I do know that a healthy engaged Zito is easily worth and 3rd and 5th to any team.

If that were the case and I have no reason to doubt it, he would be playing. I am sure NB has been contacted by several teams for permission to talk to him. I have a feeling that he just got tired of playing or decided that he was finished when Detroit did not sign him.

Also, I'm taking a guess, but his last injury was getting checked from behind with his head getting the brunt. He may have a head issue that he does not want to get hurt again and is not discussing it with anyone.

 

[dirty12]

If that were the case and I have no reason to doubt it, he would be playing. I am sure NB has been contacted by several teams for permission to talk to him. I have a feeling that he just got tired of playing or decided that he was finished when Detroit did not sign him.

Also, I'm taking a guess, but his last injury was getting checked from behind with his head getting the brunt. He may have a head issue that he does not want to get hurt again and is not discussing it with anyone.

Zito was set to go to a camp
Your second paragraph might be close to fact. He was missing one out 3-4 games before the playoffs even started.

 

[ecraigs]

Zito was set to go to a camp
Your second paragraph might be close to fact. He was missing one out 3-4 games before the playoffs even started.

If he's at home, he's in Nepean, off Merivale.

 

[OMG67]

Nothing to say now. Just need to wait it out and see what the answer ends up being…

 

[beastintheeast]

I would not be surprised if Cameron or Boyd do not talk to MacK and Donoso to see what they want to happen.

i.e. if the 67s are going to go for it, are they happy sharing the workload?

 

[Petes1987]

Sudbury doesn’t really scare me if Ottawa loads up responsibly. If we snag Mayer, that pull shim off Sudbury. Sudbury would be looking to add Beck I think. The cost of that would deplete a lot of assets which would make it more difficult for them to do much more than that.

I think adding Dubois, Mayer and a 1C is where we need to be. In addition, either a kid like Melee or the return of Boucher. If the 1C is an Import, we’d likely save a lot of assets. They are typically a lot cheaper. We actually dont’ even need a 1C. We could make do with a 2C since the wingers put beside him would be capable.

When we look at the types of players we really need to add, the costs aren’t all that much because most is OA and none of them are elite.

Mayer = 2nd, 3rd and Brady
Dubois = 3rd, 5th, and Kelly
Melee = 3rd and 5th plus conditional 4th (OA season)
Import Centre = 2nd & 5th plus an Import player

The total of that is less than what we gave up last year for Mintyukov. I really think that is enough for this team to be a contender in this league this season. As Nords says, this team has elite goal suppression. It would be a waste to waste it.

I am also fine with a selloff. But it needs to be a real selloff. There is no sense in status quo and a first round exit. That would be meaningless. Donoso, Stonehouse and at least two D-Men have to go. The affiliate players (Yanni, Houben, Dietsch, and Nelson) need to come up and play the second half. There is significant value practicing with the 67’s and getting sheltered minutes. There are enough trash teams on the schedule to shelter Nelson as well.

They need to pick a course and folLow it. Tinkering never works.

I think Jonathan Melee is worth more than a 3rd and 5th plus a conditional 4th if he returns as an overage. He has 30 points in 29 games. He is more than depth player. The Petes would likely expect a player plus a 3rd or if it was just draft picks they would want at minimum a 2nd and a 3rd for him.

 

[OMG67]

I think Jonathan Melee is worth more than a 3rd and 5th plus a conditional 4th if he returns as an overage. He has 30 points in 29 games. He is more than depth player. The Petes would likely expect a player plus a 3rd or if it was just draft picks they would want at minimum a 2nd and a 3rd for him.

He’s a depth player on a contending team. The Petes thrust him into a top line type role out of necessity. He wouldn’t be a point per game player for a contender.

Last year Sirizzotti went for a 3rd and 8th and was 20 points in 23 games. He scored a point per game the rest of the way for the Sault. Now that the Sault are a deeper team, he has slipped to 22 points in 32 games. HE isn’t relied on as much this year because the team is better. I see Melee in the same light EXCEPT Melee has more fight in him. He’s a little more tenacious. I think a 3rd and 5th plus a conditional 4th is pretty accurate. Maybe the assumption is he returns regardless and it isn‘t a conditional pick.

I can accept the argument that if that is the price then he may be more valuable to the Petes on their roster than he is as a trade piece but I really think you are overshooting the value.

 

[Petes1987]

He’s a depth player on a contending team. The Petes thrust him into a top line type role out of necessity. He wouldn’t be a point per game player for a contender.

Last year Sirizzotti went for a 3rd and 8th and was 20 points in 23 games. He scored a point per game the rest of the way for the Sault. Now that the Sault are a deeper team, he has slipped to 22 points in 32 games. HE isn’t relied on as much this year because the team is better. I see Melee in the same light EXCEPT Melee has more fight in him. He’s a little more tenacious. I think a 3rd and 5th plus a conditional 4th is pretty accurate. Maybe the assumption is he returns regardless and it isn‘t a conditional pick.

I can accept the argument that if that is the price then he may be more valuable to the Petes on their roster than he is as a trade piece but I really think you are overshooting the value.

I doubt the Petes would trade him for the return you suggested. If that was all they could get for him they will likely keep him as he will likely return next year as an overage. A comparable trade is the Tyler Savard trade from last year in which Sault Ste Marie received a 2nd, two, 3rds and a 4th. Savard had 30 points in 30 games and played a comparable game to Melee. So I don’t think it is over shooting his value by suggesting he is worth either a player and 3rd or a 2nd and a 3rd. In fact it is a discount compared to the Tyler Savard trade.

 

[frontsfan67]

I would not be surprised if Cameron or Boyd do not talk to MacK and Donoso to see what they want to happen.

i.e. if the 67s are going to go for it, are they happy sharing the workload?

If they’re winning and playing half the games each I don’t see why they wouldn’t be lol

I doubt the Petes would trade him for the return you suggested. If that was all they could get for him they will likely keep him as he will likely return next year as an overage. A comparable trade is the Tyler Savard trade from last year in which Sault Ste Marie received a 2nd, two, 3rds and a 4th. Savard had 30 points in 30 games and played a comparable game to Melee. So I don’t think it is over shooting his value by suggesting he is worth either a player and 3rd or a 2nd and a 3rd. In fact it is a discount compared to the Tyler Savard trade.

Ahh Tyler Savard- fronts legend

 

[OMG67]

I doubt the Petes would trade him for the return you suggested. If that was all they could get for him they will likely keep him as he will likely return next year as an overage. A comparable trade is the Tyler Savard trade from last year in which Sault Ste Marie received a 2nd, two, 3rds and a 4th. Savard had 30 points in 30 games and played a comparable game to Melee. So I don’t think it is over shooting his value by suggesting he is worth either a player and 3rd or a 2nd and a 3rd. In fact it is a discount compared to the Tyler Savard trade.

Savard was a much heavier player than Melee. He added a different dimension. He played with much more force. Melee is tenacious but doesn’t’ play with the same dimension of physical force. They aren’t the same player. The 3rd, 4th, 5th is a compromise between Sirizottti and Savard which is where I believe Melee is.

Again, I can understand the Petes not trading him if they feel his value is higher in a Petes uniform than not. That’s fine. I can point to a handful of 67’s players that wouldn’t garner a significant enough of a return to make it worth while fo the 67’s to trade them.

Acquiring teams need to assess the value the player brings to their team, not the value the player brings to his existing team. A championship calibre team is typically not acquiring Melee to play a first line role and play 1A on the powerplay. He plays that role on the Petes out of necessity. He is not a point per game player on a Championship calibre team so those teams are not going to pay point per game production. This is why teams have to make an assessment as to whether it is simply better to keep a player than to trade them.

A kid like Gerrior is a solid example for the 67’s. His trade value doesn’t remotely come close to his value for the 67’s. Stonehouse may be another player that may not garner a package strong enough to trade him. BUT, that doesn’t mean their respective trade values are not accurate.

 

[Petes1987]

If they’re winning and playing half the games each I don’t see why they wouldn’t be lol


Ahh Tyler Savard- fronts legend

The Tyler Savard that was traded to Barrie was a point per game player when he left Sault Ste Marie who digressed in Barrie and even more so in Kingston. I think the decline in his play was due to coaching. My hope is that Peterborough will add him if they trade Sam Mayer. I think he would be a good player for the Petes with Rob Wilson as his coach.

 

[OMG67]

The Tyler Savard that was traded to Barrie was a point per game player when he left Sault Ste Marie who digressed in Barrie and even more so in Kingston. I think the decline in his play was due to coaching. My hope is that Peterborough will add him if they trade Sam Mayer. I think he would be a good player for the Petes with Rob Wilson as his coach.

Yes but he was a heavy player. Melee isn‘t a heavy player. Savard would fight and mix it up a lot. HE was a 130 PIM guy that could also play on a top 6. The two are different players.

A player like Savard will always be worth a significant amount more than a player like Melee. I like Melee but again, he is tenacious but just averaged sized and isn‘t the type of player that scares anyone.

I don’t know what happened to Savard this year. He was released and not picked up. I think a lot of that had to do with the high number of OA’s out there and no one really needing to fill winger spots with OA’s. I have no idea if he is even playing now. Because of that likely being similar next year with the abundance of ‘04’s, I’m not sure Melee will be worth even the 4th rounder I tossed in there for his OA season. Savard moved for an 8th as an OA this year.

 

[HockeyPops]

Looks like he got picked up by the Caledonia Corvairs

 

[OMG67]

Looks like he got picked up by the Caledonia Corvairs

He may very well end up in Peterborough which I agree with @Petes1987 it would be a good fit.

 

[frontsfan67]

The Tyler Savard that was traded to Barrie was a point per game player when he left Sault Ste Marie who digressed in Barrie and even more so in Kingston. I think the decline in his play was due to coaching. My hope is that Peterborough will add him if they trade Sam Mayer. I think he would be a good player for the Petes with Rob Wilson as his coach.

I’ve heard from a barrie guy and some Kingston people he was a locker room cancer that’s why he isn’t on the team anymore. Don’t know any soo guys but wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case there too

 

[beastintheeast]

I think Jonathan Melee is worth more than a 3rd and 5th plus a conditional 4th if he returns as an overage. He has 30 points in 29 games. He is more than depth player. The Petes would likely expect a player plus a 3rd or if it was just draft picks they would want at minimum a 2nd and a 3rd for him.

Melee might be more interesting to a team that is going for it next year. Take Mississauga. He would add some experience and playoff knowledge and would, at worst, be a tradeable commodity next year.

As to Donoso and Mack, it is going to be a question of whether Donoso wants to be a backup or share duties. Neither is something he is used to

 

[HockeyPops]

I’ve heard from a barrie guy and some Kingston people he was a locker room cancer that’s why he isn’t on the team anymore. Don’t know any soo guys but wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case there too

I heard nothing of the sort in the Soo. However, the Soo did have a very strong leadership group and culture, and that kind of behaviour would have been dealt with quickly and quietly.

 

[OMG67]

Melee might be more interesting to a team that is going for it next year. Take Mississauga. He would add some experience and playoff knowledge and would, at worst, be a tradeable commodity next year.

As to Donoso and Mack, it is going to be a question of whether Donoso wants to be a backup or share duties. Neither is something he is used to

I think it is the other way around. It is going to come down to whether MacKenzie is ok being the backup. MacKenzie has started only 3 of 9 games since his return from injury. I think it is very evident who the starter is. This is Donoso’s net until he shits the bed. If he doesnt’ shit the bed, MacKenzie will get one game per week.

So, the question is whether MacKenzie is ok starting one game per week. If the internal plan is to keep both goalies and this has been communicated to them, MacKenzie will need to ponder this over the Christmas break. He will need to determine if Ottawa is the best place for him to continue his career. I don’t think it would be the best place. He’d be much better suited going to a contender in the west, get better exposure and play next year as an OA somewhere else. If he cares about his career and has professional aspirations, he needs to be with a franchise with aligned interests. That is not the 67’s.

 

[PuckStop75]

Melee might be more interesting to a team that is going for it next year. Take Mississauga. He would add some experience and playoff knowledge and would, at worst, be a tradeable commodity next year.

As to Donoso and Mack, it is going to be a question of whether Donoso wants to be a backup or share duties. Neither is something he is used to

If the asking price for Melee was a 3rd & 5th plus conditional 4th there would be many takers, and Ottawa should be all over that but I suspect Oke is holding out for more. If they want to stock the cupboard the way many anticipate they will group him with another player Mayer and get a player plus picks in return. With the exception of Beck there isn't a player on the Petes who will get them a legitimate prospect and picks on there own. They might be able to shuffle the deck by getting a player like Ewles or Horner plus reduced picks but it won't be the coveted 06/07 1st rounder.

The only input Donoso will have on the situation now is if they work out a trade will he report. Regrettably, I think he has served his purpose as far as the team is concerned and if he didn't want to be a BUG that should have been leveraged months ago.

I think it is the other way around. It is going to come down to whether MacKenzie is ok being the backup. MacKenzie has started only 3 of 9 games since his return from injury. I think it is very evident who the starter is. This is Donoso’s net until he shits the bed. If he doesnt’ shit the bed, MacKenzie will get one game per week.

So, the question is whether MacKenzie is ok starting one game per week. If the internal plan is to keep both goalies and this has been communicated to them, MacKenzie will need to ponder this over the Christmas break. He will need to determine if Ottawa is the best place for him to continue his career. I don’t think it would be the best place. He’d be much better suited going to a contender in the west, get better exposure and play next year as an OA somewhere else. If he cares about his career and has professional aspirations, he needs to be with a franchise with aligned interests. That is not the 67’s.

Mackenzie will not get a say, if Cameron decides Donoso is the guy which would be a huge mistake if they are not contending this year then Mackenzie will not be a 67 next year and the team will need to deal with that.

 

[beastintheeast]

I think it is the other way around. It is going to come down to whether MacKenzie is ok being the backup. MacKenzie has started only 3 of 9 games since his return from injury. I think it is very evident who the starter is. This is Donoso’s net until he shits the bed. If he doesnt’ shit the bed, MacKenzie will get one game per week.

So, the question is whether MacKenzie is ok starting one game per week. If the internal plan is to keep both goalies and this has been communicated to them, MacKenzie will need to ponder this over the Christmas break. He will need to determine if Ottawa is the best place for him to continue his career. I don’t think it would be the best place. He’d be much better suited going to a contender in the west, get better exposure and play next year as an OA somewhere else. If he cares about his career and has professional aspirations, he needs to be with a franchise with aligned interests. That is not the 67’s.

OR were they playing Donoso to showcase him for a trade? There are so many different ways this could go that the only thing Boyd can do is talk to them and find out what they think, as well as establish what he has as a plan going forward for them.

This is probably the most important part of the plan going forward. I think that they have to trade Donoso before they trade Mack or get a good goalie in return so that they have someone to take the pressure off Nelson.

 

[OMG67]

If the asking price for Melee was a 3rd & 5th plus conditional 4th there would be many takers, and Ottawa should be all over that but I suspect Oke is holding out for more. If they want to stock the cupboard the way many anticipate they will group him with another player Mayer and get a player plus picks in return. With the exception of Beck there isn't a player on the Petes who will get them a legitimate prospect and picks on there own. They might be able to shuffle the deck by getting a player like Ewles or Horner plus reduced picks but it won't be the coveted 06/07 1st rounder.

The only input Donoso will have on the situation now is if they work out a trade will he report. Regrettably, I think he has served his purpose as far as the team is concerned and if he didn't want to be a BUG that should have been leveraged months ago.


Mackenzie will not get a say, if Cameron decides Donoso is the guy which would be a huge mistake if they are not contending this year then Mackenzie will not be a 67 next year and the team will need to deal with that.

He would get a say if he decides not to return after Christmas and holds out to the deadline waiting on a trade.

 

[PuckStop75]

He would get a say if he decides not to return after Christmas and holds out to the deadline waiting on a trade.

There is no holding out mid season. It would be walking out, which would be a breach of the SPA, his education package for the year would be forfeited and his hockey career would be over. There isn't a USport or Pro team who will take on a goalie who walks out on a team like that.

 

[OMG67]

OR were they playing Donoso to showcase him for a trade? There are so many different ways this could go that the only thing Boyd can do is talk to them and find out what they think, as well as establish what he has as a plan going forward for them.

This is probably the most important part of the plan going forward. I think that they have to trade Donoso before they trade Mack or get a good goalie in return so that they have someone to take the pressure off Nelson.

The week after Donoso won Goalie of the Week, they started him 2 of 3 games. Once he won Goalie of the Week, there was no reason to continue showcasing him. He has proven beyond a doubt that he is a top 10 goalie in this league. It is now a question of whether there are any teams out there looking to improve their goaltending and commit an OA spot to do it.

I did preface the comment with “IF” the internal plan is to keep both goalies, that would have been communicated to the two players. Donoso is the OA. He was the starter last Year. He has a 2.96 and .905. He has starter numbers. MacKenzie’s numbers are better but he is younger. I really only see this as Donoso’s net.

”IF” they have communicated that they are trying to find a landing spot for Donoso, then so be it. That may very well be the plan. But, they released that tweet earlier in the year regarding Donoso being underrated. To me, that was directed at the league, not the fans. That would suggest they already did that and they had no takers and were trying to send a message to the GM’s that had poor things to say about him. There may simply not be a market for him.

So, under these circumstances, the 67’s have to hope that MacKenzie doesn’t give a crap about promoting himself as a potential Pro goalie. He is 19 years old. This is his year to make a statement. If he has pro aspirations, this is his year to prove to the decision makers he is the guy they want. If that is his goal and they keep Donoso and Donoso remains the starter, this is NOT the place for him. He would know that. If he is looking at going to school and accumulating scholarship years then so be it. He wouldn’t care much. He would play next year as a starter OA. He’d get his 4 years scholarship and move on. All good.