Confirmed Signing with Link: [OTT] D Jake Sanderson signs extension with the Senators (8 years, $8.05M AAV)

[Boud]

Yep, you guys all sound like Bernmiester.

Every fan base is in love with their young players.

Difference here is the majority of the media also thinks the same way. For example, Jeff O'Neill, Jamie McLennan, Mike Rupp amongst many many others. The opinion of people around the league is that there are no concerns with this type of contract for Sanderson. Anyone who has watched him this season would agree with this assesment. Is there risk? Yes there is. Is the risk high? Not particularly. It also depends on what people are looking at. If you're looking at points then obviously that won't give you the full picture.

Not to say that O'Neill and co are the all end all, but if you want an honest opinion you usually go to a rival team media and you get a tamed assessment and I believe that this is the general opinion - there is not much to lose from this contract. The risk is low and the payoff is high, especially after the cap goes up in 2-3 years.

Surely Sens fans have in the past pumped up young players that didn't turn out as good as thought but that would not be the case here. When virtually everyone thinks the player is special, the player is special. He was picked where he was for a reason. He could've played in the NHL 2 seasons ago without any problems but decided to stay in college and play a key role for the US who won the WJC.

Sanderson is good enough that you can fairly say right now that he is the best all around defensemen on the team. It's not a conventional thing to say about a defensemen with 1 year under his belt but it is simply the case. 20 games in the season people will eat their words in this thread. I'd be willing to bet he gets top 5 in Norris voting within the next 3 seasons.

 

[DueDiligence]

It's the modern NHL. What was once a #1 defenseman is now a #2. Quinn Hughes took a while to be labelled a #1 dman because of his lack of defense, then he vastly improved that. Chris Tanev was never considered a #1 defenseman despite being either the top or second best defensive player in the league at his prime.

Chris Tanev is a poor comparison . He was a quality defender but not in the top 2 in the league. He also was an offensive black whole with career bests of 6 goals and 28 points. Sanderson is very close to prime Tanev right now and is only going to get better.

 

[norrisnick]

It's seems the role of a defenseman (aka a defender) is lost on some. That's at least true for those that don't know much about hockey, and/or just use scoring stats to evaluate which has some obvious problems or gaps when evaluating a defenseman. This is also compounded by the fact that those that are concerned haven't watched him play except for perhaps a few seconds.

Ok... now, here's a test to see how that interpretation holds in the minds of many in this thread.

What happens if one were to compare Jake Sanderson's status as a #1 defenseman to... I don't know, let's pick a random name.... Erik Karlsson?

How is the role of a defenseman, especially a #1 defenseman, fully exhibited by both of these guys?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ok... now, here's a test to see how that interpretation holds in the minds of many in this thread.

What happens if one were to compare Jake Sanderson's status as a #1 defenseman to... I don't know, let's pick a random name.... Erik Karlsson?

How is the role of a defenseman, especially a #1 defenseman, fully exhibited by both of these guys?

You tell us, we’ll see how you do on the test.

 

[Korpse]

Yep, you guys all sound like Bernmiester.

Every fan base is in love with their young players.

Yeah it’s just senators fans. Probably couldn’t find a former NHL player saying he is the type of player you build a franchise around.

 

[TS Quint]

Yeah it’s just senators fans. Probably couldn’t find a former NHL player saying he is the type of player you build a franchise around.

No one is saying he probably won't be a good player.

 

[shortfuze]

No , it’s not going down if he waits, he already plays third most PK minutes in the league. It will end up being a solid signing, still one year to go on ELC.
Zero concerns, just like had none with Stutzle, everyone jumped on that contract, already looks like a steal, and it just starts next month.

How is ottawas PK with him on the ice? Legit questioN.

 

[Big Muddy]

Ok... now, here's a test to see how that interpretation holds in the minds of many in this thread.

What happens if one were to compare Jake Sanderson's status as a #1 defenseman to... I don't know, let's pick a random name.... Erik Karlsson?

How is the role of a defenseman, especially a

Here's a better question. In your viewing of Sanderson, what did you like about his game? How many games have you watched him play in? Who were the opposition teams? I'll assume you're smart enough to know that you need to watch a player before formulating any kind of accurate opinion.

Also, do you think this is a "trick question"? Can we assume you recognize that players can play different roles even if they play the same position?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Right. That's what I said. What aren't you understanding? I'm not concerned about some other people's opinions or if they care about mine. Others I'm interested and I might ask questions about them. It doesn't just have to be Sens fan whining about posters not loving the contract.

Hope this clears up how a hockey discussion board works for you. Next time you say something interesting I'll reply but it seems this might take a while.

I think you should be more worried about your team than the Sens, appreciate your concerns though.

We’re all waiting for more riveting analysis like these.

Yep, you guys all sound like Bernmiester. Every fan base is in love with their young players.

After reading all these posts from Sens fans I can't believe Sanderson hasn't been put into the Hall of Fame yet. His career is nothing but a formality.

 

[TS Quint]

Never did get a reply to who Sens fans think this contract is a comparable to. Seems almost unprecedented.

 

[NyQuil]

Never did get a reply to who Sens fans think this contract is a comparable to. Seems almost unprecedented.

Well, it's the first time in awhile where the cap is predicted to go up 10% in 2 years.

NHL Salary Cap History - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

NHL salary cap history and projections including floor, cap, upper limit, lower limit, minimum salary and the date the season was confirmed

www.capfriendly.com

The situation is not that comparable to recent history.

 

[norrisnick]

Here's a better question. In your viewing of Sanderson, what did you like about his game? How many games have you watched him play in? Who were the opposition teams? I'll assume you're smart enough to know that you need to watch a player before formulating any kind of accurate opinion.

Also, do you think this is a "trick question"? Can we assume you recognize that players can play different roles even if they play the same position?

What I noticed about Sanderson, was moreso what I didn't notice about him. He was there and played lots of minutes but I don't think I can recall a play where he stood out. Good or bad. That's not at all a bad thing for a defenseman, particularly a young one. At least the 4 Wing games and I think I caught a couple Ottawa games when they played someone interesting and the Wings weren't playing.

I don't think it's a trick question, per se, I'm just amused by a fanbase tripping all over themselves to declare Sanderson worthy of #1 money and explaining the nuance of the non-stats parts of the position. When in several other threads on HF many of the same posters shout from the rooftops about the many virtues of Erik Karlsson and his style of play. A style of play that is wholly absent of the detailed nuance of Sanderson's brand of hockey.

Which then loops back around to the role of a true #1. A true #1 is both Sanderson AND Karlsson. The go to option for any phase of the game. ES, PP, PK, trailing late, or defending a lead. Right now those two players represent half of a true #1. So they're really solid #2s. Jake has it in him perhaps to develop the other portions if roster decisions allow it. EK never really did.

 

[Big Muddy]

What I noticed about Sanderson, was moreso what I didn't notice about him. He was there and played lots of minutes but I don't think I can recall a play where he stood out.

LOL. It's incredibly obvious that you never watched him with that response.

 

[norrisnick]

LOL. It's incredibly obvious that you never watched him with that response.

Love the sneaky edit.

A defenseman not having a highlight reel is not a bad thing. Quiet, efficient, no muss no fuss. My favorite player of all time is Lidstrom. I totally get the sentiment of quiet puck transitions. But Lidstrom was a guy who could play a game, and if you weren't laser focused on him, you really wouldn't notice him. But then you check the boxscore at the end he played 30 minutes 5 on the PP 5 on the PK and had 2 assists. And at the end of the season he'd have 60-70 points to go with rock solid defense.

I don't scout random dudes on the opposing team. If you've got an excel file with a shift by shift breakdown of Jaccob Slavin, more power to you, dude.

 

[TS Quint]

and yet still so opinionated on the subject despite rarely having seen him play.
it begs the question, what’s the basis for this strong opinion of yours? lol

How do you know how much I have or haven't seen him play? What a shitty straw man. But good try.


What is your problem with what opinion?

 

[TS Quint]

Well, it's the first time in awhile where the cap is predicted to go up 10% in 2 years.

NHL Salary Cap History - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

NHL salary cap history and projections including floor, cap, upper limit, lower limit, minimum salary and the date the season was confirmed

www.capfriendly.com

The situation is not that comparable to recent history.

2013 and 2014 seasons were bigger and not that long ago.

 

[SlapJack]

Never did get a reply to who Sens fans think this contract is a comparable to. Seems almost unprecedented.

Never got a reply from you about comparables either. As expected

 

[NyQuil]

2013 and 2014 seasons were bigger and not that long ago.

10 years ago.

How many contacts from 10 years ago are still active?

 

[SpezDispenser]

How do you know how much I have or haven't seen him play? What a shitty straw man. But good try.


What is your problem with what opinion?

It's just that you've said your piece over and over and added nothing. I'll take guys like Mike Johnson's analysis over the regurgitation of the same old post over and over again.

 

[DueDiligence]

Hahaha! I couldn't care less.

Well why then do you have 2 dozen posts on this subject then? Strange obsession you have.

 

[Korpse]

No one is saying he probably won't be a good player.

Sure. Some just think he is the type of player you build a franchise around, they aren’t sens fans either.

 

[Golden_Jet]

What I noticed about Sanderson, was moreso what I didn't notice about him. He was there and played lots of minutes but I don't think I can recall a play where he stood out. Good or bad. That's not at all a bad thing for a defenseman, particularly a young one. At least the 4 Wing games and I think I caught a couple Ottawa games when they played someone interesting and the Wings weren't playing.

I don't think it's a trick question, per se, I'm just amused by a fanbase tripping all over themselves to declare Sanderson worthy of #1 money and explaining the nuance of the non-stats parts of the position. When in several other threads on HF many of the same posters shout from the rooftops about the many virtues of Erik Karlsson and his style of play. A style of play that is wholly absent of the detailed nuance of Sanderson's brand of hockey.

Which then loops back around to the role of a true #1. A true #1 is both Sanderson AND Karlsson. The go to option for any phase of the game. ES, PP, PK, trailing late, or defending a lead. Right now those two players represent half of a true #1. So they're really solid #2s. Jake has it in him perhaps to develop the other portions if roster decisions allow it. EK never really did.

I don’t remember Seider doing anything during those games either, didn’t stand out at all.

 

[Agent Zub]

Ok... now, here's a test to see how that interpretation holds in the minds of many in this thread.

What happens if one were to compare Jake Sanderson's status as a #1 defenseman to... I don't know, let's pick a random name.... Erik Karlsson?

How is the role of a defenseman, especially a #1 defenseman, fully exhibited by both of these guys?

Yes both are number 1 defenceman.

Every single coach they have had or will have, would have wanted them out on the ice for every single minute of the game. But since that is impossible, they settle to play both players 25-27 minutes because and wait for this.

They are number 1 defenceman, who have and will play 27-30 + plus minutes many times in their careers in the biggest games.

Because NHL coaches whose jobs and reputations are at risk every year, know that playing both players as much as they can is beneficial to their team.... Because they are #1 defenceman.

What I noticed about Sanderson, was moreso what I didn't notice about him. He was there and played lots of minutes but I don't think I can recall a play where he stood out. Good or bad. That's not at all a bad thing for a defenseman, particularly a young one. At least the 4 Wing games and I think I caught a couple Ottawa games when they played someone interesting and the Wings weren't playing.

I don't think it's a trick question, per se, I'm just amused by a fanbase tripping all over themselves to declare Sanderson worthy of #1 money and explaining the nuance of the non-stats parts of the position. When in several other threads on HF many of the same posters shout from the rooftops about the many virtues of Erik Karlsson and his style of play. A style of play that is wholly absent of the detailed nuance of Sanderson's brand of hockey.

Which then loops back around to the role of a true #1. A true #1 is both Sanderson AND Karlsson. The go to option for any phase of the game. ES, PP, PK, trailing late, or defending a lead. Right now those two players represent half of a true #1. So they're really solid #2s. Jake has it in him perhaps to develop the other portions if roster decisions allow it. EK never really did.

I mean it's quite clear you don't know what to look for, and NHL coaches and GMs all disagree with you. Why are you putting that on other people lol.

 

[NyQuil]

Which then loops back around to the role of a true #1. A true #1 is both Sanderson AND Karlsson. The go to option for any phase of the game. ES, PP, PK, trailing late, or defending a lead. Right now those two players represent half of a true #1. So they're really solid #2s. Jake has it in him perhaps to develop the other portions if roster decisions allow it. EK never really did.

Ultimately, a #1 is about icetime. That's it. That's what a #1 is.

How that icetime is distributed is as much a function of the make-up of the rest of your defensive squad as it is about your own abilities.

In Karlsson's case, he did kill penalties on occasion (he went an entire season without giving up a PP goal) but his advantage was much more significant over his teammates at even-strength that they opted to put him out overwhelmingly at ES.

Karlsson COULD play in all of those situations, and did. This idea that he wasn't out there late holding leads is a fallacy. This concept that he couldn't kill penalties was a falsehood.

Did Karlsson lead his teams in icetime? Yes, significantly.

Will Sanderson? Yes, even on a team with Chabot and Chychrun, maybe even as soon as this upcoming season.

There are offensively-focused #1Ds (Coffey, Karlsson, Hughes), there are more defensively focused #1Ds (Slavin, Langway) and there are guys in the middle (Weber, Doughty).

You're trying to say that the all-rounder is the only valid #1D, and I don't agree at all. Ultimately it's about the magnitude of the positive impact on the ice, not how well-distributed it is across different situations.

This attempt at a "gotcha" by employing future HHOFer and multiple Norris winner Erik Karlsson as an example of a #2D is a poor one.

 

[SlafCaufield]

what a strange signing for a player that has barely played

i see some people comparing Sanderson to Seider in here which is hilarious