OT: Fitness and Nutrition Thread

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Brainiac

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An impressive argument in the book, that Taubes does consistently, is detailing how tribes across the world, from the Zulu to the Eskimos, did not suffer from metabolic syndrome when they were eating low-carb diets, even as consumption greatly exceeded 2,000 calories a day. This is found all over the world, regardless of whether or not saturated fats come from animals (Eskimos) or from coconuts (a tribe near New Zealand) and even as they constitute >~30% of dietary calories. However, as simple flour and white sugar were introduced to these communities, and as they migrated to cities and began consuming more westernized diets, obesity emerged. This is not too surprising, but what I did not know is that cancer and alzheimers emerged as well.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

As for cancer and carbs, the link is pretty obvious and I'm still dumbfounded that medicine hasn't catched up yet. Cancer cells need sugar to grow. Lots. And they're much less efficient than normal cells when it comes to using fat as an energy source. This is basically THE one thing that is common to all types of cancer. It's pretty well known, but not systematically used for treatment.

Maybe they should look into it a little more instead of pouring billions and billions in overanalyzing minor genetic variants that explain 20% of the variability for one sub-type of one category of cancer in one small and selected part of the population. :loony:

As for Alzheimer, age is the major factor. So maybe living longer is the driving force behind that correlation. But some studies do point at the dangers of a high carbs diet for the brain. Could increase oxidative damage and brain cells are very sensitive to it.

Anyways, the take home message is that cutting down on carbs is always good for you. Our North American diet is horribly rich in carbs but we don't realize it because it's always been like that for us.
 
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Mrb1p

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In the last few weeks I have read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes. Taubes has degrees in physics, aerospace engineering, and journalism, and has been a writer for Science Magazine for years, one of the top scientific journals. His book is apparently the #1 best seller in occupational medicine at amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controversial-Science/dp/1400033462
41ikBliWK8L._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


I bought this ~450 page text to learn more about nutrition. To be honest, I was concerned I would read 450 pages and learn nothing, as nutritional science tends to be extremely qualitative. This wasn't the case, every chapter in the book was bursting at the seams with research results from multiple studies, that were explained in detail. The work of hundreds of researchers spanning hundreds of studies over 150 years was thoroughly and exhaustively explored, leading to several conclusions, some of which were surprising.

The following arguments are convincingly made:
1) Saturated fats and fats in general have nothing or nearly nothing to do with heart disease. The ostensible link originates from 1950s/1960s arguments of the "7-countries study" and other completely spurious pseudo-scientific arguments that should have never been published. Beyond that point, additional arguments were made because researchers invested in the 7-countries study didn't want to lose face.

The 7-countries study from Ancel Key found a correlation between fat consumption in 7 countries and heart disease, which is where most of the popular link originates. However, the correlation does not hold within the countries, and as pointed out by Taubes, the 7 countries were selected in order to deliver the correlation. Including more countries leads to the absence of a correlation. For example, in the 1990s it was considered a "paradox" that the French ate a high-fat diet and had low rates of heart disease.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Countries_Study

The other factor noted is that the links in association studies are hard to deal, as many samples in western countries involve people who eat diets both high in animal fats and high in sugar. For example, anybody who goes to McDonalds as a high-fat, high-sugar diet. These people then get heart disease, which is used as evidence that fats cause heart disease.

I'll note that it is now common knowledge that dietary fats have nothing to do with heart disease. However, it was still a provocative argument when Taubes made it in 2007.

2) Cholesterol is a misunderstood variable, it isn't intrinsically bad for you to acquire additional cholesterol molecules in the blood. Much of the concerns with cholesterol originate from the fact that it was among the first variables that doctors could reliably measure, so doctors correlated everything with cholesterol. However, first we believed high cholesterol was bad, then we believed high LDL cholesterol was bad, and that HDL cholesterol is in fact good. Taubes details how a lot of researchers were frustrated with the evidence that high HDL cholesterol is good for you, as it created confusion. Beyond that point, Taubes details that even LDL cholesterol is a composite variable, and some parts of it appear to be actually quite good for you.

Those who are my age (32) may remember that when we were children "low cholesterol" foods were said to be a good idea. We don't see low cholesterol advertised on foods anymore, as it's since been demonstrated that blood and dietary cholesterol have nothing to do with one another, and regardless, blood cholesterol is not flat out bad for you.

The evolution can be seen here:
time-covers.jpg


3) Metabolic Syndrome, which is when a person has at least 3 of 5 of abdominal obesity, diabetes, elevated blood pressure, high-serum triglycerides, and low HDL cholesterol, is a "disease of civilization", likely caused by high carbohydrate consumption and in particular high consumption of sugars and simple starches.

An impressive argument in the book, that Taubes does consistently, is detailing how tribes across the world, from the Zulu to the Eskimos, did not suffer from metabolic syndrome when they were eating low-carb diets, even as consumption greatly exceeded 2,000 calories a day. This is found all over the world, regardless of whether or not saturated fats come from animals (Eskimos) or from coconuts (a tribe near New Zealand) and even as they constitute >~30% of dietary calories. However, as simple flour and white sugar were introduced to these communities, and as they migrated to cities and began consuming more westernized diets, obesity emerged. This is not too surprising, but what I did not know is that cancer and alzheimers emerged as well.

An interesting finding is that among these tribes,all over the world, it was documented that blood pressure decreased with age, rather than increased as is common in the west.

4) Obesity is an issue of fat metabolism, rather than energy balance.

This struck me by surprise, as recently as a few months ago I would have told you "calories in versus calories out" but Taubes succeeds in comprehensively dismantling this position, which shocks me. What Taubes argues is that this is an association, rather than a causal relation, and the causality happens to go in the other direction.

If we see an 18 year-old who is 6'5 and another who is 5'5, we don't say that the 6'5 teenager is taller because he consumed more calories. We believe he's taller because he has different genes and different metabolism and hormones. He did in fact likely consume more calories, but that's because he was driven to do so by his biology, rather than the extra calories making him taller.

It's similarly observed in rat experiments. Fat metabolism matters. There are types of rats that are driven to obesity ... given the same amounf of calories, they will be far fatter. In partial agreement with the popular view that obesity is a psychological disorder caused by too much gluttony, one can make these rats have normal weight by starving them. However, they then still have high body fat percentage, as their muscles are gone and all of their organs are starved. Starvation is thus not ideal in this case.

Evidence is also found from hibernating animals. It's extremely hard to prevent them from gaining weight in the periods where they're supposed to gain weight.

5) A calorie isn't a calorie.

An assumption of the argument that obesity is a psychological disorder is that resting metabolism is fixed. It's not fixed. Taubes argues in the book that resting metabolism can crash in response to a high-carb, low-calorie diet, for example by showing that weight loss slows down long-term in those undergoing starvation diets, far earlier than one runs out of body fat.

It's since been confirmed that a high-carb diet slows down metabolism at fixed total calorie consumption. A recent study found a metabolic offset of ~400 calories in a day between a 60% fat diet and a 20% fat diet:
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1199154#COMMENT

6) Insulin is a dominant variable in fat metabolism. When insulin levels are elevated, the body seeks to grow fat cells, as well as not draw energy from fat cells. When insulin levels are low, the body draws energy from fat cells. A diet which lowers mean insulin levels in the blood will thus be more efficient in the long-term at increasing fat metabolism.

7) High-fat diets increase satiety. The higher the fat content of the diet, the more satisfied people are, even at low calories. In contrast, in low-fat diets, subjects have been observed being hungry even when consuming upwards of 10,000 calories a day, in experiments. I think we all know this from experience ... jelly beans and chocolate chip cookies can be eaten ad infinitum, whereas the same is not true of steak and mushrooms. The latter is eventually satisfying and one stops eating.

8) Historically, low starch, low sugar diets were the standard advice for weight loss. Dozens of supporting studies are discussed. It was only in the 1970s that low-fat diets became the standard advice. This was true all over the world. It was particularly in the USA that researchers advocated high-carb diets. Many of these researchers received grants from Coca Cola.

************

All in all, I'm now convinced that I should be consuming fewer carbs, and particularly fewer simple carbs, and more fats. I've found that it's extremely difficult to do so. Our entire society is based on carbohydrate consumption. We get served carbs on airplanes, at airports, and at parties, as I've found recently. You can go to most restaurants and not find a single low-carb meal. Steak usually comes with fries, you don't always have a sauteed spinach option.

Another problem I've found is that North Americans don't know what yogurt is. I now live in Australia now, and most yogurts here, nearly all yogurts, are extremely high in sugar, something offensive to Europeans as well. I went to Whole Foods yesterday and I could not find a single yogurt that had more grams of fat than grams of carbohydrates. It's absurd.

Within North America, "Greek" yogurt means 0% fat. In the rest of the world it means the exact opposite, it means very high fat. It's really bizarre. Anyway, most of you won't understand these two paragraphs since you all believe that yogurt should have 0 grams of fat and 30 grams of sugars.

There are other scams to be found in north american supermarkets, like skim milk.

Greek yogurt comes in low carb packages here in Mtl. Many brands, in fact. About 1G-2G of simple sugar and 4-5g of carbs for a similar amount of fat, thats almost nothing. You just have to go for the plain one.

Eating low carbs isn't that hard, also. Meal prep covers that greatly. Going to a restaurant ? Ask to swap the burger bun for lettuce or cut the burger buns in half yourself to make thin ones. It really is simple, especially if you're at home. Also, I don't think you should be scared of whole carbs. Take it or leave it, this isn't news to me, it's pretty much common knowledge.
 

Brainiac

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Greek yogurt comes in low carb packages here in Mtl. Many brands, in fact. About 1G-2G of simple sugar and 4-5g of carbs for a similar amount of fat, thats almost nothing. You just have to go for the plain one.

Eating low carbs isn't that hard, also. Meal prep covers that greatly. Going to a restaurant ? Ask to swap the burger bun for lettuce or cut the burger buns in half yourself to make thin ones. It really is simple, especially if you're at home. Also, I don't think you should be scared of whole carbs. Take it or leave it, this isn't news to me, it's pretty much common knowledge.

It's common knowledge... to a certain extent. People interested in nutrition and fitness are aware of such things. But that's a minority of people among the population. Lots of very educated people are simply not aware that they're eating too much carbs for their own good.

And I agree that preparing your own food is a must, even if it's just a few days a week. I have at least 3 or 4 dinners a week that are lots of vegetables with a source of protein and no carbs (no bread, pasta etc). It helps a lot in feeling better, less bloathing, having more energy, keeping your weight in check.
 

DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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Interesting, thanks for sharing.

As for cancer and carbs, the link is pretty obvious and I'm still dumbfounded that medicine hasn't catched up yet. Cancer cells need sugar to grow. Lots. And they're much less efficient than normal cells when it comes to using fat as an energy source. This is basically THE one thing that is common to all types of cancer. It's pretty well known, but not systematically used for treatment.

Maybe they should look into it a little more instead of pouring billions and billions in overanalyzing minor genetic variants that explain 20% of the variability for one sub-type of one category of cancer in one small and selected part of the population. :loony:

As for Alzheimer, age is the major factor. So maybe living longer is the driving force behind that correlation. But some studies do point at the dangers of a high carbs diet for the brain. Could increase oxidative damage and brain cells are very sensitive to it.

Anyways, the take home message is that cutting down on carbs is always good for you. Our North American diet is horribly rich in carbs but we don't realize it because it's always been like that for us.

A point made in the book is that diet has not *always* been like this in NA. During the period 1870-1910, there was tremendous population growth in North America, and animal farming did not keep up. As such, people were eating relatively more carbs, due to purely economic factors. This matters in the historical study of diet, as this was the first period used for comparisons in long-term health studies. Early 20th century North Americans also had lower rates of heart disease, and hence an early link between heart disease and fat. But that is largely because people of that era had higher rates of cholera, tuberculosis, and heart disease was not yet well-defined.

As for cancer, when my father was in the Montreal medical system for prostate cancer, they fed him a high-carb, high-sugar diet. A lot of fruit, north american yogurt, bread, crackers, from what i recall.



Greek yogurt comes in low carb packages here in Mtl. Many brands, in fact. About 1G-2G of simple sugar and 4-5g of carbs for a similar amount of fat, thats almost nothing. You just have to go for the plain one.

Eating low carbs isn't that hard, also. Meal prep covers that greatly. Going to a restaurant ? Ask to swap the burger bun for lettuce or cut the burger buns in half yourself to make thin ones. It really is simple, especially if you're at home. Also, I don't think you should be scared of whole carbs. Take it or leave it, this isn't news to me, it's pretty much common knowledge.

It's not common sense at all. The standard nutritional advice for 30 years was "low-fat" diet. For the 1980s and 1990s people were told to cut down even on things like nuts, olive oil, and avocados. This was the advice not just for obesity, but for heart disease. In fact, high-carb diets were even the advice for diabetes.

Not sure which version this is:

pyramid.gif
 

Brainiac

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As for cancer, when my father was in the Montreal medical system for prostate cancer, they fed him a high-carb, high-sugar diet. A lot of fruit, north american yogurt, bread, crackers, from what i recall.

This is insane. They should know better. If I'm ever diagnosed with cancer, I immediately go with the ketogenic diet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

Section 10 explains how it helps for cancer.
 

Juve

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I am looking for a Smart Fitness watch to track my calories burned when working out(main), sleep tracker, sms alerts, music control etc... I bought the Razer Nabu 2015 smart watch. The calorie counter was not working properly, it said I burn 800 calories when I was gaming for 3 hours and it also burnt calories when I was not wearing the watch. I bought it directly on the Razer website when I should have bought it in a store because it's much easier to return it. It was stupid but I was confident in Razer because I have always been satisfied with their products. I received my "new" Nabu on Thursday after a month of waiting for the rma. Same issue. I sent them another email asking for a new one or my money back. Does anyone here use a fitness watch with accurate calories burned? I am looking at the Microsoft Band 2 watch and it's on sale for 250$ at best buy.
 

MasterD

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As for cancer, when my father was in the Montreal medical system for prostate cancer, they fed him a high-carb, high-sugar diet. A lot of fruit, north american yogurt, bread, crackers, from what i recall.

It's really sad, but as a nurse I can tell you the food we serve in hospitals is usually not linked to the person's disease... Almost every patient gets the same bad meal unless they have allergies.
 

DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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It's really sad, but as a nurse I can tell you the food we serve in hospitals is usually not linked to the person's disease... Almost every patient gets the same bad meal unless they have allergies.

It was an all around underwhelming performance.

I'll note the fruits were often mouldy as well.

They were quite incompetent. They'd serve the food and come pick it up thirty minutes later regardless of whether or not it was eaten, because that was the efficient shift that reduced costs. So, if the patient happens to be asleep when food is served, he doesn't eat.
 

MasterD

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It was an all around underwhelming performance.

I'll note the fruits were often mouldy as well.

They were quite incompetent. They'd serve the food and come pick it up thirty minutes later regardless of whether or not it was eaten, because that was the efficient shift that reduced costs. So, if the patient happens to be asleep when food is served, he doesn't eat.

Yup, exactly. Meal times are determined by the schedule of the employees at the cafeteria. Where I work, breakfast is around 8:30, lunch 11:30 and supper 17h15... That's not a lot of time between breakfast and lunch! And everyone's hungry by 21:00, but we don't have snacks for them.
 

waffledave

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Aug 22, 2004
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I am looking for a Smart Fitness watch to track my calories burned when working out(main), sleep tracker, sms alerts, music control etc... I bought the Razer Nabu 2015 smart watch. The calorie counter was not working properly, it said I burn 800 calories when I was gaming for 3 hours and it also burnt calories when I was not wearing the watch. I bought it directly on the Razer website when I should have bought it in a store because it's much easier to return it. It was stupid but I was confident in Razer because I have always been satisfied with their products. I received my "new" Nabu on Thursday after a month of waiting for the rma. Same issue. I sent them another email asking for a new one or my money back. Does anyone here use a fitness watch with accurate calories burned? I am looking at the Microsoft Band 2 watch and it's on sale for 250$ at best buy.

You burn calories just by being alive, and fitness watches will always reflect that. While 800 calories gaming doesn't make much sense, you will be several hundred calories just by sitting down for a few hours regardless.
 

Juve

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You burn calories just by being alive, and fitness watches will always reflect that. While 800 calories gaming doesn't make much sense, you will be several hundred calories just by sitting down for a few hours regardless.

I understand you can burn calories through out the day, but sometimes it's just absurd. I received "New" on the 31st. I put it on my wirst around 5pm. I had dinner around 6 and i had already brunt aprox 350 calories. In two hours, I burnt 350 calories while sitting in car and sitting for dinner. By midnight I had burnt close to 900 calories. That's not normal.

My first clocked me at around 800 calories burnt while gaming. It also had me burning calories at around 3500 to a little over 4000 on my non training days. I have desk job, I hardly move at my job unless I go to the bathroom or for lunch.
 

waffledave

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I understand you can burn calories through out the day, but sometimes it's just absurd. I received "New" on the 31st. I put it on my wirst around 5pm. I had dinner around 6 and i had already brunt aprox 350 calories. In two hours, I burnt 350 calories while sitting in car and sitting for dinner. By midnight I had burnt close to 900 calories. That's not normal.

My first clocked me at around 800 calories burnt while gaming. It also had me burning calories at around 3500 to a little over 4000 on my non training days. I have desk job, I hardly move at my job unless I go to the bathroom or for lunch.

The problem with pedometer based fitness watches are that sometimes even typing on a keyboard can register as "walking" so it skews the results.

In the end, you cannot really estimate calories burned with these watches. It's better to use it as a guide and set a goal for number of steps taken or something. Even if it isn't accurate, over the long run it will balance out. Say something like, 10,000 steps per day. That will force you to move a little extra each day.

You will burn around 2000 calories if do literally nothing, like, if you're in a coma for 24 hours. Unless you're actually working out, you won't burn more than probably 400-500 calories from walking around and daily activity. If your goal is calorie counting, then set a goal, like 2000 cal per day, and track everything you eat, with a food scale. Everything, including ketchup, sugar in your coffee, etc... If it goes in your mouth, track it.

THE biggest problem with people trying to track calories is they will say, hey, I burned 500 calories today doing x activity, so I can eat 500 calories more! It's better to ignore calorie burn from activity and only consider calories consumed.
 

Juve

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You will burn around 2000 calories if do literally nothing, like, if you're in a coma for 24 hours. Unless you're actually working out, you won't burn more than probably 400-500 calories from walking around and daily activity. If your goal is calorie counting, then set a goal, like 2000 cal per day, and track everything you eat, with a food scale. Everything, including ketchup, sugar in your coffee, etc... If it goes in your mouth, track it.

That's why I bought the watch so I don't have to track stuff like that because I do not have the patience or I'll forget.

THE biggest problem with people trying to track calories is they will say, hey, I burned 500 calories today doing x activity, so I can eat 500 calories more! It's better to ignore calorie burn from activity and only consider calories consumed.

That's not my issue. I want to know how much I am burning while I am exorcising.
 

waffledave

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That's not my issue. I want to know how much I am burning while I am exorcising.

In that case, get a HR monitor with VO2 max monitor. It's the only way you'll really get an accurate measure for calories burned while working out. And unless you're running or doing some type of cardio you don't really burn much working out (lifting weights, for example... doesn't burn much DURING the workout).

A watch that tracks calories is pretty useless. You're better off tracking activity with a watch, and tracking calories based on what you're eating.

Tracking calories burned is extremely difficult, it's totally different for everyone and there's no perfect formula (but HR with V02 max is the best way).
 

Juve

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In that case, get a HR monitor with VO2 max monitor. It's the only way you'll really get an accurate measure for calories burned while working out. And unless you're running or doing some type of cardio you don't really burn much working out (lifting weights, for example... doesn't burn much DURING the workout).

A watch that tracks calories is pretty useless. You're better off tracking activity with a watch, and tracking calories based on what you're eating.

Tracking calories burned is extremely difficult, it's totally different for everyone and there's no perfect formula (but HR with V02 max is the best way).

I found a smartwatch a that has a lot of sensors. The Microsoft Band 2.

Sensors:
Optical heart rate sensor
3-axis accelerometer/gyro
Gyrometer
GPS
Ambient light sensor
Skin temperature sensor
UV sensor
Capacitive sensor
Galvanic skin response
Microphone
BarometerSensors
Optical heart rate sensor
3-axis accelerometer/gyro
Gyrometer
GPS
Ambient light sensor
Skin temperature sensor
UV sensor
Capacitive sensor
Galvanic skin response
Microphone
Barometer

It tracks you VO2 max with the firmware update.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
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I found a smartwatch a that has a lot of sensors. The Microsoft Band 2.

Sensors:
Optical heart rate sensor
3-axis accelerometer/gyro
Gyrometer
GPS
Ambient light sensor
Skin temperature sensor
UV sensor
Capacitive sensor
Galvanic skin response
Microphone
BarometerSensors
Optical heart rate sensor
3-axis accelerometer/gyro
Gyrometer
GPS
Ambient light sensor
Skin temperature sensor
UV sensor
Capacitive sensor
Galvanic skin response
Microphone
Barometer

It tracks you VO2 max with the firmware update.

Unless it has a chest strap, any VO2 Max tracking will be only an estimate. The estimates are based on your resting and max HR, which is different for everyone and takes a while to figure out yourself. The watch can't do that for you, it'll just base it on the "standard" estimates for max HR based on your age.
 

Juve

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I have question for cyclists. It's my goal to learn how to ride a bicycle this summer. I've been looking for a bike. I don't know what type of bicycle to purchase. I've researching on the internet, I never expected bicycles to be that expensive. Once I learn how to ride a bike I want to use it on the road and off road. I do not want something cheap, nor too expensive. I think max I am will to spend is 500$

I've been looking at these two bikes. http://cyclesanjou.com/?p=947 and http://www.primeauvelo.com/en/cypress-1.html

As a girl, does it make a difference if I were to purchase bicycle for a man? Should I look for one on Kijiji?
 
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