Speculation: O'Reilly Mega Thread - ALL ROR Speculation Here

[TheGoldenGod]

It would be more like:
ED-Petro
Dunn-Bouw
Gunny-Schmaltz
Bortz
still not great.

Yeah that's better. Its not a top 5 dcore anymore but its still better than most in the league assuming Eddy and Dunn come back even better. Still like Bortz over Schmaltz though. He looked solid all season and adds that physical presence

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Gunnar has a blown out knee and Edmundson is a lefty. That D core sucks.

Its not as good as this years but it doesn't suck either. And its not uncommon to see defenseman play on their off side

 

[bleedblue1223]

Its not as good as this years but it doesn't suck either.

Very mediocre IMO. It's heavily reliant on Dunn taking the next step. We can't really count on what we'll get from Bouwmeester, Gunnar, or Schmaltz. That's a recipe for disaster IMO, especially when you'd be banking on Edmundson and Dunn elevating their play.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

Yeah that's better. Its not a top 5 dcore anymore but its still better than most in the league assuming Eddy and Dunn come back even better. Still like Bortz over Schmaltz though. He looked solid all season and adds that physical presence

STRONGLY Disagree with that. He is a liability on defense, but he does add needed grit. Only person that played worse on D(possibly worse than the entire NHL) was Butler.

 

[byrath]

It is a shame that threads started with interesting ideas degenerate into name calling by a select few posters. ROR would be perfect for the Blues, but unfortunately, the Blues do not have the resources to give up a top 4 D, which seems to be the Sabre's asking price. That is all that needs to be said. Thanks to the Sabre's fans that responded thoughtfully and insightfully. Good night.

Trading a d-man for a center, and then filling that spot by trading prospect(s) for, or signing a UFA d-man is a legitimate option.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Very mediocre IMO. It's heavily reliant on Dunn taking the next step. We can't really count on what we'll get from Bouwmeester, Gunnar, or Schmaltz. That's a recipe for disaster IMO, especially when you'd be banking on Edmundson and Dunn elevating their play.

Petro is still top 5-10 dman in this league capable of stabilizing most d-corps in the NHL. Eddy proved to be a top pairing guy this year. I don't see why he cant improve. Dunn progressed very well throughout the season.

To me our offense is a disaster. We don't know what we're getting from Fabbri. We don't if Thomas or Kyrou can contribute in the playoffs let alone the NHL. We do not have a 2nd line. Our depth guys are playing too far up in the lineup. We're lucky if adding one more top 6 guy fixes this.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Petro is still top 5-10 dman in this league capable of stabilizing most d-corps in the NHL. Eddy proved to be a top pairing guy this year. I don't see why he cant improve. Dunn progressed very well throughout the season.

To me our offense is a disaster. We don't know what we're getting from Fabbri. We don't if Thomas or Kyrou can contribute in the playoffs let alone the NHL. We do not have a 2nd line. Our depth guys are playing to far up in the lineup

Doesn't mean you rob Peter to pay Paul. Edmundson can be a top pair with Petro or Parayko, so that's fine. Dunn isn't ready to be a #3 and anchor the 2nd pairing though. Edmundson is a 3 and Dunn is a 4.

If we move Parayko, we need to replace him with at least another 3 caliber type of guy IMO.

 

[Colt55]

Over the past 5 seasons, he's averaged 63 points per 82 games along with elite defense. He's more than just a 50-60 point center.

So what your saying is in your opinion ROR is worth more that Parayko and you would trade him for ROR.

 

[bleedblue1223]

So what your saying is in your opinion ROR is worth more that Parayko and you would trade him for ROR.

No where in my post did I say any of that.

You don't have to mischaracterize ROR to make a point about Parayko.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Doesn't mean you rob Peter to pay Paul. Edmundson can be a top pair with Petro or Parayko, so that's fine. Dunn isn't ready to be a #3 and anchor the 2nd pairing though. Edmundson is a 3 and Dunn is a 4.

If we move Parayko, we need to replace him with at least another 3 caliber type of guy IMO.

And I think that could be arranged. If not, the coaching staff seemed to like Bouw or Gunnarson in that role role last season. Both had significant time on the top pairing.

 

[Shwabeal]

I know this is unpopular even including myself but Bouw is somebody that the front office/coaching staff has always been more than comfortable giving big minutes too...Has that changed since the injury, maybe, but a that's pretty much been Bouw's calling card in the past. For the record I'm not saying he's a better player than Parayko and it would be an obvious downgrade but Bouw has been a big minute Dman through most of his career. Gunnarson looked more that solid last year when healthy and Bortz looked great rounding out the year. Is Schmaltz ready to take the next step...I personally think so but again, definitely a downgrade to Parayko

I think the organization realizes that Bouw's days of playing heavy minutes against top competition is over. His skating has diminished for the past 2 years and I don't see him getting it completely back with this hip surgery (which is a pretty major surgery, especially for someone that relies on his mobility as much as Bouw does). Gunnarson was solid when healthy this year but he's still ideally a #5 or #6 on a good defensive team. Bortuzzo also looked good but he is what he is and has been, a physical bottom pairing dman that you don't have to hold your breath for when he's out against tough competition. Him and Gunnar as a 3rd pairing is good, him and Bouw as a 2nd pairing, oy vey.

Not to mention every one of those 3 is a UFA after next year and Bortuzzo is probably the only one they'd even consider re-signing. And they are 34, 31, and 29 years of age and the two older ones are going to be coming off major surgeries to their lower body. getting rid of Parayko and banking on anyone of those 3 to be serviceable on the 2nd pair is a recipe for disaster.

Schmaltz is a wild card and not one I'm banking on being an above average 2nd pair guy. He's decent defensively but shutting down opponents has never been his MO. Not to mention the toll that banking on any of these 4 guys would put on Pietrangelo. He'd be 28 going on 35 at the end of the next year trying to captain that horrific D corps.

 

[BlueDream]

I can think of 1 right off the top of my head...

Are you meaning to tell me a guy with the username Colt55 is vastly overrating Colton Parayko?

I do not believe you.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Parayko puts up top pairing numbers, Points, TOI.

ROR puts up 2c numbers, 2c stats, 1c toi.

Not homer glasses reality. He is another paul statsny. Not worth Parayko and i feel most people agree with this that are not saber fans

Since the 2015-2016 season O'Reilly has 176 points. Good for 22nd among centers. Statsny ranks 43rd. O'Reilly is without a doubt a first line center, especially when you then factor in what a great two-way player he is. Statsny is no where near the player O'Reilly is, but feel free to keep spewing nonsense. It's pretty entertaining.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

I think the organization realizes that Bouw's days of playing heavy minutes against top competition is over. His skating has diminished for the past 2 years and I don't see him getting it completely back with this hip surgery (which is a pretty major surgery, especially for someone that relies on his mobility as much as Bouw does). Gunnarson was solid when healthy this year but he's still ideally a #5 or #6 on a good defensive team. Bortuzzo also looked good but he is what he is and has been, a physical bottom pairing dman that you don't have to hold your breath for when he's out against tough competition. Him and Gunnar as a 3rd pairing is good, him and Bouw as a 2nd pairing, oy vey.

Not to mention every one of those 3 is a UFA after next year and Bortuzzo is probably the only one they'd even consider re-signing. And they are 34, 31, and 29 years of age and the two older ones are going to be coming off major surgeries to their lower body. getting rid of Parayko and banking on anyone of those 3 to be serviceable on the 2nd pair is a recipe for disaster.

Schmaltz is a wild card and not one I'm banking on being an above average 2nd pair guy. He's decent defensively but shutting down opponents has never been his MO. Not to mention the toll that banking on any of these 4 guys would put on Pietrangelo. He'd be 28 going on 35 at the end of the next year trying to captain that horrific D corps.

All very good points.

I think if Parayko's value was used to land a top forward, the front office would address the situation.

My whole spiel is pretty much comes back to the idea that Colton Parayko shouldn't be looked at us untouchable. I am in the minority and for solid reasoning. All good in the hood.

 

[Shwabeal]

All very good points.

I think if Parayko's value was used to land a top forward, the front office would address the situation.

My whole spiel is pretty much comes back to the idea that Colton Parayko shouldn't be looked at us untouchable. I am in the minority and for solid reasoning. All good in the hood.

Yeah as I said in one of my other posts, I don't think he's untouchable in the sense that if a GM calls, they get hung up on. Parayko is my favorite player and I'd hate if he got traded but I don't think there is a 0% chance he does. If a deal is out there that we can use him and another piece to obtain a low end #1 or high end #2 center while also receiving a top 4 RHD that can eat similar minutes to what Parayko does now, I'm all for it. I just don't see that deal out there (un)fortunately.

There is one very vocal person on this board about Parayko being untouchable and literally means he wouldn't trade him for anyone. Most sensible people realize he has valuable currency to upgrade the center position, but also realize that there has to be someone lined up to take that spot and that guy is definitely not in the Blues organization currently.

 

[Colt55]

No where in my post did I say any of that.

You don't have to mischaracterize ROR to make a point about Parayko.

In my eyes he is a 50-60 guy. He doesnt stand out very much kind of reminds me of a slightly better Statsny. Maybee the thought of losing parayko for a statsny+ erks me a bit.

Also i was saying you said that just merely asking your opinion.

 

[Colt55]

Since the 2015-2016 season O'Reilly has 176 points. Good for 22nd among centers. Statsny ranks 43rd. O'Reilly is without a doubt a first line center, especially when you then factor in what a great two-way player he is. Statsny is no where near the player O'Reilly is, but feel free to keep spewing nonsense. It's pretty entertaining.

Statsny's numbers before he came to the blues were similar. Then he came to a hitch system which 1) stymied his game 2) guess he couldnt stay healthy point i am making is this.

We have a number 1 center. RoR is not worth losing parayko, dunn, petro, edmondson, Scheen. Tarasenko, Fabbri, Swartz, Thomas, Kyrou, wpg 1st, or 2019 first. That pretty much cuts out any player that would be worth it to your team. I am not trying to low ball you or trash ROR. I am saying To my team parayko is worth more, and in total value worth more than ROR.

Honestly i wouldnt want to trade thompson or Kostin. I want the kids to develop and take over. Robbing peter to pay paul never works.

 

[Colt55]

Yeah as I said in one of my other posts, I don't think he's untouchable in the sense that if a GM calls, they get hung up on. Parayko is my favorite player and I'd hate if he got traded but I don't think there is a 0% chance he does. If a deal is out there that we can use him and another piece to obtain a low end #1 or high end #2 center while also receiving a top 4 RHD that can eat similar minutes to what Parayko does now, I'm all for it. I just don't see that deal out there (un)fortunately.

There is one very vocal person on this board about Parayko being untouchable and literally means he wouldn't trade him for anyone. Most sensible people realize he has valuable currency to upgrade the center position, but also realize that there has to be someone lined up to take that spot and that guy is definitely not in the Blues organization currently.

I am sure your referring to me. I wouldnt mind getting a young 1c/2c but like you said if we trade parayko we have to get a dman that can cover his minutes. I wouldnt trade him unless it benefited the blues. Leaving a gaping hole in the right side just to be stronger down the middle doesnt help us. With the Emergence of Schenn we just need a decent 2c and let thomas grow into the c role and continue to draft centers.

 

[bleedblue1223]

IAlso i was saying you said that just merely asking your opinion.

Fair enough. I think their value is similar, but I wouldn't do it. We'd have just as big of a hole after the trade, we'd just be moving the issues around.

 

[Colt55]

Are you meaning to tell me a guy with the username Colt55 is vastly overrating Colton Parayko?

I do not believe you.

LOl
I do rate him very highly. To the point that it would have to Take Drais or a proven Nylander + to pull him away from me if i were GM. The only problem is we are right back to Petro borts schamltz on the right with no back up and edds, dunn, jaybo on left. The whole it creates is bigger than the hole filled. We just dont have to many D prospects ready. Thomas however had a great showing in training camp made it to last cut, Had a great WJC, had a great OHL season. If he makes team next year then we can find a ufa bandaid or resign stats ect. Schenn really took the 1c role and ran with it.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

In my eyes he is a 50-60 guy. He doesnt stand out very much kind of reminds me of a slightly better Statsny. Maybee the thought of losing parayko for a statsny+ erks me a bit.

Also i was saying you said that just merely asking your opinion.

It's odd that you evaluate RoR in a range where he's never beneath your floor, yet he's exceeded your stated ceiling. This is why people are having a tough time taking you seriously.

 

[DJN21]

Do we have to listen to ror undervalued trades all summer long? Gonna be a very long few months if so...

 

[Shwabeal]

I am sure your referring to me. I wouldnt mind getting a young 1c/2c but like you said if we trade parayko we have to get a dman that can cover his minutes. I wouldnt trade him unless it benefited the blues. Leaving a gaping hole in the right side just to be stronger down the middle doesnt help us. With the Emergence of Schenn we just need a decent 2c and let thomas grow into the c role and continue to draft centers.

And I get that but your posts very rarely come across that way. Every time Parayko is brought up on the main boards it's "nope, not happening, wouldn't consider it." I think this is the first time I've actually seen you say that under the right circumstances, you'd consider moving Parayko.

If we're moving Parayko, it should be for someone like ROR. Actually, exactly like ROR. Given roster construction at this time, it doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean ROR isn't/wouldn't be a fit. As others have mentioned, very few people have a problem with saying "no, I wouldn't move Parayko for ROR because it would leave a hole at #2 RHD and we would need a replacement coming back or lined up." What people have a problem with is the mischaracterization of the player that the Blues would be acquiring for him. Saying things like "he's a #2 C" when any metric you wanna look at says differently grates at people's nerves because its false.

If you spent more time posting things like the second statement in quotes and less things like the third, we'd be able to have a lot more civil, productive discussions about Blues trades around here.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

And I get that but your posts very rarely come across that way. Every time Parayko is brought up on the main boards it's "nope, not happening, wouldn't consider it." I think this is the first time I've actually seen you say that under the right circumstances, you'd consider moving Parayko.

If we're moving Parayko, it should be for someone like ROR. Actually, exactly like ROR. Given roster construction at this time, it doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean ROR isn't/wouldn't be a fit. As others have mentioned, very few people have a problem with saying "no, I wouldn't move Parayko for ROR because it would leave a hole at #2 RHD and we would need a replacement coming back or lined up." What people have a problem with is the mischaracterization of the player that the Blues would be acquiring for him. Saying things like "he's a #2 C" when any metric you wanna look at says differently grates at people's nerves because its false.

If you spent more time posting things like the second statement in quotes and less things like the third, we'd be able to have a lot more civil, productive discussions about Blues trades around here.

Not the poster we want, but the poster we need.

 

[Oberyn]

I think Parayko for ROR is a good base for a deal. I'd probably be more inclined to do it if we had better depth at RD. Bortuzzo has no business on the second pairing, and Schmaltz has shown glimpses but not enough to keep me comfortable.