Olympics: Olympics 2018 rosters (without NHL players)

[JackSlater]

I'm live in Brooklyn.

And yes, people in the States won't care that NHLers aren't playing.

Plus, you are comparing apples to oranges as far as pre-90s Olympic Hockey to what would be if NHLers don't show up.

That was top pros vs amatures. This would be pros vs pros, far more competitive.

I actually think you guys, as well as NHL teams, underrate some of the NA players in Europe. I absolutely think some have improved their game to the point where they could help NHL teams.

Sure, and I expect that USA will not see a big difference in its viewership. There are plenty of people there who will tune in to watch the Olympics who don't know a lot about the NHL. I was referring to Canada though, where that is not the case. I'm not exclusively talking about the amateur Olympics either, since I can very clearly remember the tournaments in 1994 and 1992 when Canadian professionals were present.

I agree about some of the North Americans in Europe. There is quality there, especially given that the games will be played on larger ice. It annoys me that Canada doesn't give more Europe based players a shot at the World Championships in place of Kevin Bieksa types.

 

[Yakushev72]

Despite what the Canucks might say, I actually preferred the Olympics before the NHL got involved. No one really knew the players, and they only played once, so you didn't know what was going to happen. With the NHL, its the same old players every time, everyone knows the pecking order, and the favorite pretty much always wins. I don't really think the NHL players every really put their hearts into it. They just went through the motions in a businesslike way, and then came back to the NHL to proceed with business. Nothing to look at here!

 

[MXD]

Despite what the Canucks might say, I actually preferred the Olympics before the NHL got involved. No one really knew the players, and they only played once, so you didn't know what was going to happen. With the NHL, its the same old players every time, everyone knows the pecking order, and the favorite pretty much always wins. I don't really think the NHL players every really put their hearts into it. They just went through the motions in a businesslike way, and then came back to the NHL to proceed with business. Nothing to look at here!

That's just... rich. And reeking of ignorance.

 

[JackSlater]

Despite what the Canucks might say, I actually preferred the Olympics before the NHL got involved. No one really knew the players, and they only played once, so you didn't know what was going to happen. With the NHL, its the same old players every time, everyone knows the pecking order, and the favorite pretty much always wins. I don't really think the NHL players every really put their hearts into it. They just went through the motions in a businesslike way, and then came back to the NHL to proceed with business. Nothing to look at here!

Yes, the novelty and parity were surely much higher before, what with rosters greatly resembling those at the yearly IIHF World Championship and USSR going nearly unchallenged for decades. I do believe that you preferred it though.

 

[Xokkeu]

Just out of curiousity, what makes you guys so sure that canadians will prefer a regular season game out of 80+ than Team Canada in quarter or semifinals at the Olympics? Knowing a few canadians myself, i highly doubt the NHL winning that draw.

I have no idea how the NHL wins that draw, especially south of the border. The only thing they have going for them is the time zone differences. Regular season hockey in the US would be forgotten for two weeks. Which is one of the main reasons I don't understand the NHL's reluctance to go.

 

[sandysan]

I have no idea how the NHL wins that draw, especially south of the border. The only thing they have going for them is the time zone differences. Regular season hockey in the US would be forgotten for two weeks. Which is one of the main reasons I don't understand the NHL's reluctance to go.

their reluctance is that they don't want to stop their league, assume all of the risks to enrich some third party who currently prevents them from monetizing their participation and ensures that they and get precisely 0.0% of the ( significant) reward.

I hope that clears it up for you.

 

[Xokkeu]

their reluctance is that they don't want to stop their league, assume all of the risks to enrich some third party who currently prevents them from monetizing their participation and ensures that they and get precisely 0.0% of the ( significant) reward.

I hope that clears it up for you.

Nope not at all, but thanks for trying.

 

[snipes]

Despite what the Canucks might say, I actually preferred the Olympics before the NHL got involved. No one really knew the players, and they only played once, so you didn't know what was going to happen. With the NHL, its the same old players every time, everyone knows the pecking order, and the favorite pretty much always wins. I don't really think the NHL players every really put their hearts into it. They just went through the motions in a businesslike way, and then came back to the NHL to proceed with business. Nothing to look at here!

I'm sure it was better when we didn't send our best and the USSR/Russian "amateurs" could beat up on inferior competition.

The NHLers don't put their hearts into it? Are you kidding? I watched our team play all out with 100% effort every shift. Wave after wave attack. Superstar NHL players buying into team roles and putting the team first. Just because we dominated and put on a clinic doesn't diminish the effort that went into it.

Regarding the Olympics, if our best can't go JackSlater is right, Canadians won't put much weight into the value of Olympic hockey. We care about the best competing against the best. Period. We want our best to play the best the world can offer in competition.

 

[Xokkeu]

I'm sure it was better when we didn't send our best and the USSR/Russian "amateurs" could beat up on inferior competition.

The NHLers don't put their hearts into it? Are you kidding? I watched our team play all out with 100% effort every shift. Wave after wave attack. Superstar NHL players buying into team roles and putting the team first. Just because we dominated and put on a clinic doesn't diminish the effort that went into it.

Regarding the Olympics, if our best can't go JackSlater is right, Canadians won't put much weight into the value of Olympic hockey. We care about the best competing against the best. Period. We want our best to play the best the world can offer in competition.

Yikes, I mean if Canada didn't put the effort out in Sochi, that's rather terrifying for the rest of the world.

 

[Yakushev72]

Yes, the novelty and parity were surely much higher before, what with rosters greatly resembling those at the yearly IIHF World Championship and USSR going nearly unchallenged for decades. I do believe that you preferred it though.

I might, in retrospect, remove the phrase "and the favorite always wins," because the USSR was as predictable a winner as Canada is now. But you had the dynamics of the 1980 American team, or the 1994 Swedish and Canadian teams, which could never happen when only NHL players are representing the contending nations. There is a sameness and a repetitiveness when the same rosters (not just the USSR) play each other over and over again to reach the same result. In 2018, no one knows what the rosters will be, and there won't be a USSR to be a predictable winner. The pecking order will be totally reshaped. I welcome that prospect.

 

[sandysan]

Nope not at all, but thanks for trying.

Well you can lead a horse to water......

 

[Seanaconda]

Sure, and I expect that USA will not see a big difference in its viewership. There are plenty of people there who will tune in to watch the Olympics who don't know a lot about the NHL. I was referring to Canada though, where that is not the case. I'm not exclusively talking about the amateur Olympics either, since I can very clearly remember the tournaments in 1994 and 1992 when Canadian professionals were present.

I agree about some of the North Americans in Europe. There is quality there, especially given that the games will be played on larger ice. It annoys me that Canada doesn't give more Europe based players a shot at the World Championships in place of Kevin Bieksa types.

Umm kevin bieksa went to the WC once I think but they could probably find better players willing to go that are in the NHL.

The guys that went to play in Euro tend to be the guys that failed in canada while some Euros actually wanted to play close to home.

Or they could do the usa thing for wcs and send college players and scrubs/4th liners and acknowledge it's a joke of a tournament.

For the Olympics tho If the nhl doesn't let them go I hope college players and chl players are allowed to go. Or even ahl players but that's doubtful. Maybe guys on ahl only contracts would be allowed to go because they aren't actually owned by an nhl team

 

[JackSlater]

Umm kevin bieksa went to the WC once I think but they could probably find better players willing to go that are in the NHL.

The guys that went to play in Euro tend to be the guys that failed in canada while some Euros actually wanted to play close to home.

Or they could do the usa thing for wcs and send college players and scrubs/4th liners and acknowledge it's a joke of a tournament.

For the Olympics tho If the nhl doesn't let them go I hope college players and chl players are allowed to go. Or even ahl players but that's doubtful. Maybe guys on ahl only contracts would be allowed to go because they aren't actually owned by an nhl team

Bieksa is just a type of inept player who typically gets sent over. Could have picked Dillon, Schenn or any number of other players. There are players in European leagues better suited to those roles than some of the types, such as Bieksa, that they send.

Hockey Canada isn't gong to send CHL or NCAA players to the Olympics regardless of NHL participation. If there is no NHL participation it will be European based Canadian professionals primarily, as TN has already discussed several times. Unfortunately that will render the tournament largely a joke.

 

[Canuckistani]

I might, in retrospect, remove the phrase "and the favorite always wins," because the USSR was as predictable a winner as Canada is now. But you had the dynamics of the 1980 American team, or the 1994 Swedish and Canadian teams, which could never happen when only NHL players are representing the contending nations. There is a sameness and a repetitiveness when the same rosters (not just the USSR) play each other over and over again to reach the same result. In 2018, no one knows what the rosters will be, and there won't be a USSR to be a predictable winner. The pecking order will be totally reshaped. I welcome that prospect.

Oh come on. It's not like Canada has won all five NHL Olympics by 6-0, 8-1 scores.

Things are as close today as they've ever been at the Olympic level.

 

[sandysan]

Oh come on. It's not like Canada has won all five NHL Olympics by 6-0, 8-1 scores.

Things are as close today as they've ever been at the Olympic level.

Yes the games are close but if Canada gets up a goal how often do they give one up ?
The entire olympic plan seems to score first then button down the game tight defensively and rely on good goaltending if they make a mistake. A lot of people said we could have won gold with anyone in net because of defensive depth.

if you are confident being up 1-0 or 2-1 will hold you don't have to pot 6 or 8 in order to win.

 

[Jon Riley]

Tha sad thing, the one that make me think that there won't be an nhl participation this time, is that neither the NHL nor the IOC actually need an agreement.
For the NHL, definitely not a big deal. They save money and nuisance not goin to Korea. On the other side, for the IOC, not a big deal either. The whole world (minus Canada it seems) would watch the olympics regardless and anyway hockey is just one of the many events. They are not goin to lose sleep on it.
It sucks for the players that would love to play and it sucks for the actual hockey fans that would want to watch a meaningful event.

 

[sandysan]

Tha sad thing, the one that make me think that there won't be an nhl participation this time, is that neither the NHL nor the IOC actually need an agreement.
For the NHL, definitely not a big deal. They save money and nuisance not goin to Korea. On the other side, for the IOC, not a big deal either. The whole world (minus Canada it seems) would watch the olympics regardless and anyway hockey is just one of the many events. They are not goin to lose sleep on it.
It sucks for the players that would love to play and it sucks for the actual hockey fans that would want to watch a meaningful event.

I see the bolded repeatedly. If this WERE true, what was the incentive of the IOC to change their raison d'etre and abandon the tenets of amateurism that formally excluded NHL players and any player who took a dime at any level from the olympics ? if the draw is talent independent, why get in bed with pros ?

for the summer olympics, hockey would be near the bottom of the barrel. for the winter olympics it is the crown team sport and at worst the second most popular behind figure skating.

I think there wont be olympic participation this time because the NHL knows going in its a losing proposition for them, and as a private company the World Cup does infinitely more for the leagues economic health than the olympics no matter how many people decry the gimmicry.

And no one knows what a nhl player-less olympics would look like today. If they go to korea knowing they wont benefit or they can see the consequences of their lack of participation, why wouldnt they pass ? if its a dumpster fire they can use that for concessions in China and beyond. if the world's demand for third or fourth rate hockey under the rings exceeds predictions, then the IOC can go on its merry way alone with another largely illigitimate tournament.

 

[Jon Riley]

I see the bolded repeatedly. If this WERE true, what was the incentive of the IOC to change their raison d'etre and abandon the tenets of amateurism that formally excluded NHL players and any player who took a dime at any level from the olympics ? if the draw is talent independent, why get in bed with pros ?

Well, a higher level competition is, and it has been of course better for them. But just talking about the whole olympics in their enterity, not the single sports. I mean, the upgrade from amateur to pro made the olympics more popular and better, but at this point even if one sport goes back (and anyways if NHL does not send players, the competition would be impoverished but still it would feature pros) for one edition it would not be a big deal for them.
Hockey is the most important team sport in the winter olympics, but in the big picture is still not going to be that much relevant.
Specially because the ratings regarding ice hockey would basically just suffer in Canada.

for the summer olympics, hockey would be near the bottom of the barrel. for the winter olympics it is the crown team sport and at worst the second most popular behind figure skating.

On a related subject, this map is pretty cool. I like maps with colours.
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-popular-olympic-sports-2014-2?r=US&IR=T&IR=T

Being a study made on Facebook is clearly close to no value at all, but still, colours.

And no one knows what a nhl player-less olympics would look like today. If they go to korea knowing they wont benefit or they can see the consequences of their lack of participation, why wouldnt they pass ? if its a dumpster fire they can use that for concessions in China and beyond. if the world's demand for third or fourth rate hockey under the rings exceeds predictions, then the IOC can go on its merry way alone with another largely illigitimate tournament.

About this is difficult not to agree with you. Impossible to know now what the outcome will be, I am just stating what I think is the reasoning that the IOC may be doing. Complete speculation based basically on my feelings.
The NHL has no real motivation to go, except the pressure from some players and some fans. Not much, I reckon. They will do what they think it's better for their business and it's well among their rights to do so. I would hate them for not sending the players, but I doubt they would ask my opinion anyway.

 

[Xokkeu]

Bieksa is just a type of inept player who typically gets sent over. Could have picked Dillon, Schenn or any number of other players. There are players in European leagues better suited to those roles than some of the types, such as Bieksa, that they send.

Hockey Canada isn't gong to send CHL or NCAA players to the Olympics regardless of NHL participation. If there is no NHL participation it will be European based Canadian professionals primarily, as TN has already discussed several times. Unfortunately that will render the tournament largely a joke.

A joke to hardcore hockey fans yes. But they are a minority.

 

[Xokkeu]

Tha sad thing, the one that make me think that there won't be an nhl participation this time, is that neither the NHL nor the IOC actually need an agreement.
For the NHL, definitely not a big deal. They save money and nuisance not goin to Korea. On the other side, for the IOC, not a big deal either. The whole world (minus Canada it seems) would watch the olympics regardless and anyway hockey is just one of the many events. They are not goin to lose sleep on it.
It sucks for the players that would love to play and it sucks for the actual hockey fans that would want to watch a meaningful event.

The only reason there's a prayer of hope for an agreement is the players themselves. Otherwise this would already be over.

 

[sandysan]

The only reason there's a prayer of hope for an agreement is the players themselves. Otherwise this would already be over.

The question isn't what the players want, its what they are willing to give the owners in order to play. Right now extending the CBA is a big fat no.

There's no free lunch. Thinking the owners will release players under contract to enrich some third party while the owners are left holding the bag in naive at best, delusional at worst. Its easy to say the players want to play but that isn't and never should have been the important metric.

Unless there is a dramatic reversal of fortunes, get used to the ide of the NHL passing. Maybe there is opportunity to sell black market roster sheets ( so the IOC doesn't get a cut) because even the most ardent fan is gonna need one.

 

[Rob]

I'm live in Brooklyn.

And yes, people in the States won't care that NHLers aren't playing.

.

Hockey fans in the States will.

 

[Rob]

I know that Canada will still send a team but it just seems like a huge waste of resources. The money would be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Xokkeu]

Hockey fans in the States will.

Won't really matter because casual fans will still watch in high numbers.

 

[Jon Riley]

The question isn't what the players want, its what they are willing to give the owners in order to play. Right now extending the CBA is a big fat no.

And I think that it is right this way. As much as the players would want to go, that should not be used to try to have them sign a deal that does not satisfy them.
They may want to play in the Olympics, but for sure not to the extent of signing an an unfavourable CBA.

By the way, am I the only one seeing another lockout coming fast our way?