Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. VI

[rune74]

I'm not saying he won't be an NHLer - but if he's a borderline NHLer, even a 4-6 dman - isn't that a bust considering the management pretty much saw him and marketed him as a top pairing guy? According to 'Draft Busts' in Wikipedia - "A draft bust occurs when a highly touted or highly selected draftee does not meet expectations."

Based on what Benning told you - he's a top pairing dman. So if you aren't even certain he will be an NHLer, never mind a top pairing guy - how can he not be a bust. Not saying he is a bad person, etc, just from your statement it seemed like you thought he was a bust.

What? I think he can still be in time. Patience is key here. I'm not with you guys who think he is a bust, way to early for that.

 

[NeoCanuck]

He turns into a perennial 60 point D-Man in NHL 18 guys, I think it's gonna be fine.

It's going to be FINE.

 

[Knight53]

If true, excellent news. Get him playing against men and letting Salo be in his ear, working with him.

 

[CanaFan]

I thought people said he wasn't that good on the knights? This tweet says it will be a big blow.

Well ya, but it wasn’t an enormous blow.

 

[docbenton]

Well ya, but it wasn’t an enormous blow.

Enough of this Mete stuff. When it mattered Juolevi was counted on for all the top PP minutes, top PK minutes and all the toughest matchups, and he did very well against guys like Brown, Strome, DeBrincat; really abused DeBrincat a few times which I found entertaining. Mete was still good but you couldn't tell he couldn't handle those matchups, and didn't have the offensive chops to really run a PP. He skates a lot better than Olli though, and that's what needs to be worked on this year. The nice thing about playing in Europe, not as many games as junior, more time to practice and develop some explosiveness. But the guy didn't suddenly stop being an elite player just because his skating took a hit from gaining weight.

Even in preseason I thought he did a lot of really good things, looked more confident carrying the puck than last year. But he did keep getting beat wide, so that needs work. For Mete, it's easy for a great skater playing with confidence to look good for a while; he'll come down to earth real soon because he's just not a high-end player other than the skating.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

That's totally okay. But much like Virtanen, Juolevi was a bit of a project player. It's one thing to say "he played like crap and he clearly isn't NHL ready yet, hopefully next year", but it's another to day "he played like crap and is clearly a bust."

I'm not saying he was the right pick and that people have to be happy with it, but he is our prospect now and the pick has been made. We shouldn't be writing him off after his first ever NHL camp.

Why do people do this? Nobody is calling him a bust. We're disappointed in his performance relative to his draft position. Read before commenting.

 

[rune74]

Why do people do this? Nobody is calling him a bust. We're disappointed in his performance relative to his draft position. Read before commenting.

Literally on the last page someone called him a bust. Best not to speak in absolutes.

 

[CanaFan]

Literally on the last page someone called him a bust. Best not to speak in absolutes.

Different uses of the word bust. Poster you are referring to specifically said disappointing relative to his draft position which, at the moment, he clearly is. As opposed to players like Tkachuk, Keller who are looking like stand outs for their draft position.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Literally on the last page someone called him a bust. Best not to speak in absolutes.

Context matters. That same poster literally told you "bust relative to draft position" in the post you mentioned. You want to ignore that? Fine. Let us know if you're ever up for intellectually honest discussion.

 

[M2Beezy]

He turns into a perennial 60 point D-Man in NHL 18 guys, I think it's gonna be fine.

It's going to be FINE.

Except that has NO relation to reality

The reality is hes a top 5 pick that should of been picked out of the 1st round and is trending in the WRONG direction FAST. Still imagining:

Tkachuck Horvat Boeser
Baertchi Pettersson Gaudette

 

[Melvin]

That's totally okay. But much like Virtanen, Juolevi was a bit of a project player. It's one thing to say "he played like crap and he clearly isn't NHL ready yet, hopefully next year", but it's another to day "he played like crap and is clearly a bust."

I'm not saying he was the right pick and that people have to be happy with it, but he is our prospect now and the pick has been made. We shouldn't be writing him off after his first ever NHL camp.

When you put something quotes, it implies that somebody actually said the thing that you put in between the two quote markers.

Here is an article explaining how this grammar works.

 

[Nucker101]

I'd say it's a massive blow for London. Dmen of his caliber in the OHL at that age usually have great seasons, even if they don't live up to expectations in the NHL.

He also played the toughest minutes on London so it's a trickle down effect on their roster.

 

[NeoCanuck]

Except that has NO relation to reality

The reality is hes a top 5 pick that should of been picked out of the 1st round and is trending in the WRONG direction FAST. Still imagining:

Tkachuck Horvat Boeser
Baertchi Pettersson Gaudette

Did I forget the sarcasm emoji?

I feel like I laid it on pretty thick there.

 

[Grub]

Did I forget the sarcasm emoji?

I feel like I laid it on pretty thick there.

You did bro, I just can't believe someone would think that was not sarcastic.

 

[groov2]

Except that has NO relation to reality

The reality is hes a top 5 pick that should of been picked out of the 1st round and is trending in the WRONG direction FAST. Still imagining:

Tkachuck Horvat Boeser
Baertchi Pettersson Gaudette

Have.

 

[rune74]

Context matters. That same poster literally told you "bust relative to draft position" in the post you mentioned. You want to ignore that? Fine. Let us know if you're ever up for intellectually honest discussion.

So, because he added the caveat of draft position he didn't say bust? Come on, he hasn't even busted from that yet.

What I am seeing here is a bunch of posts calling him a bust in as many words without saying it so that they can say no one is actually calling him a bust.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

So, because he added the caveat of draft position he didn't say bust? Come on, he hasn't even busted from that yet.

What I am seeing here is a bunch of posts calling him a bust in as many words without saying it so that they can say no one is actually calling him a bust.

So not progressing at all (I'd argue regressing) isn't grounds for suggesting he's a bust relative to his top 5 (still shake my head over that) pick?

I'd say it's a less bold statement than some of the claims you make on a daily basis.

He was an awful pick at 5. Just awful.

 

[rune74]

So not progressing at all (I'd argue regressing) isn't grounds for suggesting he's a bust relative to his top 5 (still shake my head over that) pick?

I'd say it's a less bold statement than some of the claims you make on a daily basis.

He was an awful pick at 5. Just awful.

You guys sure like to throw out the little personal jabs.

Please inform me of my on a daily basis, which you have none.

Complete junk post by you.

 

[CanaFan]

So, because he added the caveat of draft position he didn't say bust? Come on, he hasn't even busted from that yet.

What I am seeing here is a bunch of posts calling him a bust in as many words without saying it so that they can say no one is actually calling him a bust.

What exactly does “bust” mean to you? It seems to be a hang up for you so let’s nail that down so that this thread can stop getting bogged down with pointless speculation about posters’ motives.

 

[rune74]

What exactly does “bust” mean to you? It seems to be a hang up for you so let’s nail that down so that this thread can stop getting bogged down with pointless speculation about posters’ motives.

Bust means he won't reach the potential of his draft pick. I guess overall the word itself seems to illicit multiple reasons depending on how you read it.

When do you decide that a player is unable to reach that potential? At what age?

 

[F A N]

The pick isn't looking great right now but it's too early to call him a bust.

The thing with Dmen is that a lot of their value comes down to their ability to log effective minutes. A forward can't dominate the puck possession wise and offer next to zero offensively. A Dman can. Juolevi is going to get chances and I still see a long NHL career out of him.

 

[CanaFan]

Bust means he won't reach the potential of his draft pick. I guess overall the word itself seems to illicit multiple reasons depending on how you read it.

When do you decide that a player is unable to reach that potential? At what age?

So it doesn’t mean not an NHL player? Ok good.

As for the latter, who is to say what a player’s potential even is? Some people felt Juolevi has OEL upside, others see a Chris Tanev. I guess the higher you set the bar, the sooner they need to show signs of tracking towards that lofty projection. I think the OEL potential is all but gone already, while a Tanev is still a possibility though even that is a ways off.

Honestly there is no right time to “declare” a player can’t/won’t hit their potential as it’s all degrees of probability even from the moment they are drafted. As players age they are either moving towards reaching that potential or they are moving further away from it. Currently Juolevi is moving away from it. So when people say “looking like a bust/disappointment” they are correct. He is *currently* looking that way. If he puts together a season that changes that trend then he will force people to revise their estimations of him. But that’s on him to do. No one owes him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Knight53]

It's official

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Good. Hope he can slim down and rediscover his skating stride on the larger ice, and that the competition level is good for him.

 

[rune74]

Except that has NO relation to reality

The reality is hes a top 5 pick that should of been picked out of the 1st round and is trending in the WRONG direction FAST. Still imagining:

Tkachuck Horvat Boeser
Baertchi Pettersson Gaudette

Are you sure?

I heard they used mapped the minds of NHL gm's to really make it realistic. They were hooked up for months.