Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi

[Ziostilon]

 

[rune74]

I've played

Joulevi, when compared to big league world-class players, is not very good and has not improved since being drafted, which is even worse.

Not positive, but I'm pretty sure I would still know that had I never played

Ok, guess that's settled then heh.

 

[CanaFan]

He was 0.5 PPG playing with men in a good league this season.

Which has an NHLe of ~18 points. By comparison Sergachev will be close to 41 points at the same age, albeit on a very talented Tampa team.

 

[PG Canuck]

@Bovinder Horvatji, if you legitimately want to assess this I’d suggest you do this: Look up all defensemen drafted top 10 in the past 10 or so years. Then split them into groups based on when they made the NHL i.e. D+1, D+2, D+3, etc. Then look at the ones in the D+3 or later piles and ask yourself (honestly) if you think that’s the group of players you want your top 5 pick to turn out to be.

So, I went ahead and did this. This is since the 2007 draft, so this is through a 10 year span.

Quick notes:
*Hamilton played 42 games in his D+2 season, but got sent back to OHL. Made NHL fully in his D+3 season.
*Koekkoek played 29 NHL games in his D+5 season, but has only now made the NHL fulltime, this year
*Dylan McIllrath is not listed, but played 34 games in his D+6 season, so I wouldn't really classify him as making the NHL as he has not stuck fulltime.
*Griffen Reinhart is not listed. Has not made NHL fulltime.

D+1​	D+2​	D+3​	D+4​	D+6​	D+7​
Aaron Ekblad (1st overall)​	Ryan Murray (2nd overall)​	Alex Pietrangelo (4th overall)​	Haydn Fleury (7th overall)​	Derrick Pouliot (8th overall)​	Thomas Hickey (4th overall) ​
Victor Hedman (2nd overall)​	Erik Gudbranson (3rd overall)​	Karl Alzner (5th overall)​	Keaton Ellerby (10th overall) ​	Slater Koekkoek* (10th overall)​	​
Drew Doughty (2nd overall)​	Morgan Reilly (5th overall)​	Mathew Dumba (7th overall)​	​	​	​
Zach Bogosian (3rd overall)​	Hampus Lindholm (6th overall)​	Darnell Nurse (7th overall)​	​	​	​
Adam Larsson (3rd overall)​	Oliver Ekman-Larsson (6th overall)​	Dougie Hamilton* (9th overall)​	​	​	​
Seth Jones (4th overall)​	Ivan Provorov (7th overall)​	Jared Cowen (9th overall)​	​	​	​
Noah Hanifin (5th overall)​	Zach Werenski (8th overall)​	Jonas Brodin (10th overall)​	​	​	​
Luke Schenn (5th overall)​	Rasmus Ristolainen (8th overall)​	​	​	​	​
​	Jacob Trouba (9th overall)​	​	​	​	​
​	Mikhail Sergachev (9th overall)​	​	​	​	​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY][/TBODY]

 

[PG Canuck]

Juolevi is currently in his D+2 season, going into his D+3 season next year.

 

[VanJack]

Juolevi with two relatively mediocre post-draft seasons.....but the Canucks will still have to force-feed him into the NHL lineup next season...The current blueline is basically a train-wreck and sending him to Utica would be a PR disaster for a top-five draft selection....everybody is ragging about Virtanen being a big 'draft-day miss', but he seems to be developing just fine.....Juolevi on the other hand.....yikes!

 

[PG Canuck]

So basically, Juolevi better make the Canucks next season, or historically, he's not going to be an effective player.

 

[timw33]

but he seems to be developing just fine..

For a 6th overall pick, he's developed abysmally from the moment we drafted him.

If he was the 96th pick, sure, this is great, he's finding a niche as a bottom 6 winger with speed. But there has to be a bar set somewhere, and considering his draft position and the litany of top 6 NHLers we passed on, he is not developing fine, we've just had our expectations blunted year after year and are resigned to "well....I guess...I guess if he can put up a 25 point NHL season that would be pretty good."

 

[Pavel96]

So basically, Juolevi better make the Canucks next season, or historically, he's not going to be an effective player.

Lol not surprised:

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...wering-this-can-canucks-fans-handle-a-rebuild

According to this interview with Sami Salo-

“When he came to play for us, one thing we noticed from our fitness testing was that he obviously has to get better physically.”
“That’s why I say this summer is going to be crucial for him, ”
“Everyone knows what he can with the puck, but it’s what he can do without the puck that is part of the thing."
“If he gets in better shape it’s a lot easier for him to be effective in that area.”

And then Salo dropped this bomb -

“I hope he trains hard in the summer, that’s going to be a really big thing for him to have even the slightest chance of cracking the lineup.”


Pretty pathetic really.

 

[timw33]

So basically, Juolevi better make the Canucks next season, or historically, he's not going to be an effective player.

Hey let's get rid of the negativity and the "facts" and just respect our president and management and blindly trust them.

I love this prospect

 

[PG Canuck]

Hey let's get rid of the negativity and the "facts" and just respect our president and management and blindly trust them.

I love this prospect

I know it's already going to be taken out of context and I'll be labelled as a hater. Facts hurt though, and Juolevi not making the NHL in his D+3 season is seriously bad. There's no other way to spin that.

 

[timw33]

I know it's already going to be taken out of context and I'll be labelled as a hater. Facts hurt though, and Juolevi not making the NHL in his D+3 season is seriously bad. There's no other way to spin that.

I think posting that to r/Canucks would legitimately get you banned.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

So basically, Juolevi better make the Canucks next season, or historically, he's not going to be an effective player.

I still want him to play a full season in the ahl regardless, It seems like he’s already a missed pick, might as well take your time to develop him properly.
With that being said, this team needs all the PR to sell tickets. Juolevi is basically a lock on the roster next season.
Meh whatever, he can’t possibly be worse than Pouliot.....

 

[Zombotron]

Trouba and Sergachev made the NHL full-time in their D+2s, not their D+1s. Sergachev played 4 games with Montreal before being back to Windsor, and Trouba spent his D+1 with Michigan

 

[PG Canuck]

Trouba and Sergachev made the NHL full-time in their D+2s, not their D+1s. Sergachev played 4 games with Montreal before being back to Windsor, and Trouba spent his D+1 with Michigan

You are right, I got them in the wrong categories.

Still doesn't affect the outcome of Juolevi going into his D+3 season and not being in the NHL, but you are right. I will edit.

 

[Albatros]

Which has an NHLe of ~18 points. By comparison Sergachev will be close to 41 points at the same age, albeit on a very talented Tampa team.

So you should have drafted Sergachev instead. Doesn't change the fact that Juolevi has developed into one of the better defensemen in one of the best leagues, something he wasn't a few years ago when drafted. If the Canucks drafted him too high then that's their failure, but to claim that he hasn't developed since 2016 is nonsense.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

So, I went ahead and did this. This is since the 2007 draft, so this is through a 10 year span.

Quick notes:
*Hamilton played 42 games in his D+2 season, but got sent back to OHL. Made NHL fully in his D+3 season.
*Koekkoek played 29 NHL games in his D+5 season, but has only now made the NHL fulltime, this year
*Dylan McIllrath is not listed, but played 34 games in his D+6 season, so I wouldn't really classify him as making the NHL as he has not stuck fulltime.
*Griffen Reinhart is not listed. Has not made NHL fulltime.

D+1​	D+2​	D+3​	D+4​	D+6​	D+7​
Aaron Ekblad (1st overall)​	Ryan Murray (2nd overall)​	Alex Pietrangelo (4th overall)​	Haydn Fleury (7th overall)​	Derrick Pouliot (8th overall)​	Thomas Hickey (4th overall) ​
Victor Hedman (2nd overall)​	Erik Gudbranson (3rd overall)​	Karl Alzner (5th overall)​	Keaton Ellerby (10th overall) ​	Slater Koekkoek* (10th overall)​
Drew Doughty (2nd overall)​	Morgan Reilly (5th overall)​	Mathew Dumba (7th overall)​
Zach Bogosian (3rd overall)​	Hampus Lindholm (6th overall)​	Darnell Nurse (7th overall)​
Adam Larsson (3rd overall)​	Oliver Ekman-Larsson (6th overall)​	Dougie Hamilton* (9th overall)​
Seth Jones (4th overall)​	Ivan Provorov (7th overall)​	Jared Cowen (9th overall)​
Noah Hanifin (5th overall)​	Zach Werenski (8th overall)​	Jonas Brodin (10th overall)​
Luke Schenn (5th overall)​	Rasmus Ristolainen (8th overall)​
Jacob Trouba (9th overall)​
Mikhail Sergachev (9th overall)​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I don't like that next yr, people will be able to argue that we have the worst 3 players on the list..

 

[CanaFan]

So you should have drafted Sergachev instead. Doesn't change the fact that Juolevi has developed into one of the better defensemen in one of the best leagues, something he wasn't a few years ago when drafted. If the Canucks drafted him too high then that's their failure, but to claim that he hasn't developed since 2016 is nonsense.

I mentioned Sergachev to give some context to what can be expected from a defenseman Juolevi's age. Seems to me your argument is essentially to lower your expectations until you can say he's doing well. He's had an ok season in Liiga, not a dominant one. Players his own age are having better seasons in the NHL, not the 3rd or 4th best pro league in Europe.

Has he developed since he was 17? Sure. Development is expected between the ages of 17 and 19. The more important question is whether he has developed *enough* to be on track for a player that we hope to become an impact NHLer. If you want to lower the standard to just "Is he better than he was 2 years ago, even if just slightly?" then sure I guess. But that's a pretty useless standard for any NHL-aspiring prospect.

 

[Black Noise]

I mentioned Sergachev to give some context to what can be expected from a defenseman Juolevi's age. Seems to me your argument is essentially to lower your expectations until you can say he's doing well. He's had an ok season in Liiga, not a dominant one. Players his own age are having better seasons in the NHL, not the 3rd or 4th best pro league in Europe.

Has he developed since he was 17? Sure. Development is expected between the ages of 17 and 19. The more important question is whether he has developed *enough* to be on track for a player that we hope to become an impact NHLer. If you want to lower the standard to just "Is he better than he was 2 years ago, even if just slightly?" then sure I guess. But that's a pretty useless standard for any NHL-aspiring prospect.

I'm pretty sure I'm a better hockey player than I was 2 years ago, and I'm the same age of Juolevi. Guess that means I'm showing promise to become a NHL regular!

 

[RobertKron]

I mentioned Sergachev to give some context to what can be expected from a defenseman Juolevi's age. Seems to me your argument is essentially to lower your expectations until you can say he's doing well. He's had an ok season in Liiga, not a dominant one. Players his own age are having better seasons in the NHL, not the 3rd or 4th best pro league in Europe.

Has he developed since he was 17? Sure. Development is expected between the ages of 17 and 19. The more important question is whether he has developed *enough* to be on track for a player that we hope to become an impact NHLer. If you want to lower the standard to just "Is he better than he was 2 years ago, even if just slightly?" then sure I guess. But that's a pretty useless standard for any NHL-aspiring prospect.

Also, I'll remind again that if we are to believe Jim Benning, Juolevi could have played in the NHL at 17, so I'm not certain that having a good season in Finland at 19 is necessarily a big progression. Again, this is if we are to assume that Jim Benning is the spectacular judge of talent that we are told he is.

 

[RobertKron]

Anyway, I'm off, but first a reminder that Jim Benning said that Juolevi wouldn't be out of place in the NHL at 17.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

From the games I have watched this season, Olli has been very solid. Count me as 1 of many who wanted Tkachuk/Sergachev (My personal #1 ranked D for 2016) over Juolevi, but I understand where he was drafted is not his fault. Blame Benning for the pick, and do your best to view Juolevi without the 'I hate everything Benning' glasses on. His d+1 regular season was disappointing, and his preformance at the 2017 WJC was poor, but his level of play for London in the playoffs was great. He has had ups and downs this season in Liiga, but has imo had far more positives vs negatives in his game, and has had a very good season overall. His level at the WJC was much better, and was 1 of if not the best Finnish D (as he should have been last year). We'll see how he preforms in the Liiga playoffs, but so far he's looked like a legit prospect (albeit one drafted to high), and one we can be happy with.

I think we have a solid top 4 Dman coming soon, and we should be happy with that, but still rightfully upset with Benning for the pick itself. Olli will most likely be a fixture in our top 4 for years to come, but what could have been is indeed frustrating.

Hate Benning. Hate the pick. Give Juolevi a chance.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Are we off the topic again

 

[Albatros]

I mentioned Sergachev to give some context to what can be expected from a defenseman Juolevi's age. Seems to me your argument is essentially to lower your expectations until you can say he's doing well. He's had an ok season in Liiga, not a dominant one. Players his own age are having better seasons in the NHL, not the 3rd or 4th best pro league in Europe.

Arguably the second best Liiga U20 defenseman after Heiskanen, he's a good prospect. If your expectations are the next Bobby Orr then you will be disappointed, but he has what it takes to reach and even surpass the spheres of his mentor Sami Salo, a good NHL player.

 

[ziploc]

Arguably the second best Liiga U20 defenseman after Heiskanen, he's a good prospect. If your expectations are the next Bobby Orr then you will be disappointed, but he has what it takes to reach and even surpass the spheres of his mentor Sami Salo, a good NHL player.

If he matches or exceeds Sami (ideally without all the absurd injuries) then we should be very happy. Sami was a legit #2-3 defenseman. Hoping for a #1 defender from this year's draft, however.