Post-Game Talk: Oilers 7 Canes 3

[GameChanger]

You've liked my positive comments on Pulju, or perspective comments on Pulju around 165 times. Do you really not remember those or are you having selective memory?

Lets be clear here too when we're talking about obsession. 99% of your posts here are about Jesse and due to Jesse being here. You are a one player poster calling out other posters for talking about one player. If you're being honest.

Now understand that I would not call you out on that except in your suggestion that some posters here are only talking about Jesse, or talking Jesse down. I'm surprised you would go there given you are a one topic poster here.

I even welcomed you posting here repeatedly, encouraged you, always friendly. But if you're going to be attacking me now after all that...

Sorry, I didn't remember the positive comments, maybe because of the annoyed feeling I'm having, so I apologize for that. That's all on me.

But yes, I've talked about myself writing about Jesse a lot and know it's my thing here. And I know Drai is your thing, in fact you write more about him than I do about Jesse, which is fine. It's also explained by you being a more active writer here. Oh and you do write more about other things as well.

But I do think it's a different thing to write about ones favourite player than take one player and bash him again and again, turning everything against him (like Pulju was good because of Drai, Drai was bad because of Pulju, Pulju didn't really have such a great game the others thought, Pulju is the worst player of the team this year, Pulju was lucky, the goalkeeper was bad etc.).

I didn't mean to attack you and was hoping you got it from my polite sentences. I apologize if you still got that feeling! If I could choose 10 guys to have a beer with you'd be one of them, could be even top5 despite our different views

Maybe it's time for me to step aside because I honestly think it's depressing that even after a good game the same couple of fans write dozens of mails where they downplay Jesse again and again. I wasn't expecting a different view but maybe a glimpse of hope or at least not all those Jesse has sucked, Jesse was just lucky comments. So yeah, I guess I'm too sensitive here so I should probably fill my time with something else for a while.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

Jesse's got 12G in 56 games with 9.8 SP% all while being richarded around with PP time and top 6 time.
Is 20G next year really that much of a stretch?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Jesse's got 12G in 56 games with 9.8 SP% all while being richarded around with PP time and top 6 time.
Is 20G next year really that much of a stretch?

50 ots sure is. Anybody want that bet?

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

50 ots sure is. Anybody want that bet?

You got yourself a pool party wager. That's 2 bets we gotta keep track of now

 

[Senor Catface]

Jesse's got 12G in 56 games with 9.8 SP% all while being richarded around with PP time and top 6 time.
Is 20G next year really that much of a stretch?

I think 20 goals is a safe bet. 17-25 is my range.

 

[GameChanger]

50 ots sure is. Anybody want that bet?

I would if Jesse is given a similar treatment as most other top prospects, including a regular top6 spot and proper utilization on the PP. The problem is if TM (and Chia) stays and if Jesse hasn't signed an extention there's a great chance it'll be at least somewhat similar next year, too. They will want the best for the team, but especially in 50-50 situations Jesse might be the one who is put to the 3rd line or e.g. given much lower minutes on the 2nd PP.

I don't really do long-term betting like this, but do believe he'd make 50 points if he plays with McDavid or Drai and is utilized correctly on the 1st PP.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You got yourself a pool party wager. That's 2 bets we gotta keep track of now

Right on. Like I said earlier its a pleasure doing business with you. We know we keep it a friendly bet and that we'll both acknowledge. Of course I hope you W the bet. It just makes seasons more interesting imo.

 

[harpoon]

The fact the Isles are so deep at forward because of the so-called "gifts" Chia gave them yet have less win than the Oilers is a joke too...Tavares, Eberle, Barzal...all wasted years and now Tavares may walk. its almost as if you need more than "talent" to win in the NHL

This is such a feeble argument. I agree that the Islanders aren't that good, and are rightfully out of the playoffs. But don't try to act like that is on Eberle or Barzal in any way.

Andrew Ladd (+8), a known decent player in the league, is the only forward ahead of Eberle at +4. Barzal at +1 is the only other forward above zero. So three forwards in plus territory. Two of them are Eberle and Barzal. And I've watched lot of Islanders games this season - being in plus territory on that team is no small feat. Lee for example has five more points than Eberle but he's -20.

The real problem with the Islanders is that they have had the worst goaltending you can imagine. They just couldn't outscore the holes on their roster. And the sieves in net. Kind of like the Oilers this season to be honest. The blame falls on the GM who created an unbalanced roster. Eberle has been good this year. Barzal has been fantastic.

Was your point that Snow is an idiot? Cause that would be great except he's the idiot who swindled Chiarelli on back to back trades. That leaves Chiarelli .... umm ...

 

[GameChanger]

Right on. Like I said earlier its a pleasure doing business with you. We know we keep it a friendly bet and that we'll both acknowledge. Of course I hope you W the bet. It just makes seasons more interesting imo.

I'm glad you added the second last sentence Some people take these bets too seriously and then they start to hope the player fails.

 

[GameChanger]

50 ots sure is. Anybody want that bet?

And one more thing. There's a good chance (depending on McDavid's wingers) Drai will be there to assist Jesse with breaking that limit. I hope so as I think they could be great together.

Next year Pulju will take steps forward again, and actually Drai still keeps developing too. They both have great one-timers and can find each other well. I hope you've noticed that a couple of times Jesse has been able to give a quick and accurate pass to Drai, who has then been able to use his good one-timer to score. I personally believe those two could've been terrific together already this year.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

This is such a feeble argument. I agree that the Islanders aren't that good, and are rightfully out of the playoffs. But don't try to act like that is on Eberle or Barzal in any way.

Andrew Ladd (+8), a known decent player in the league, is the only forward ahead of Eberle at +4. Barzal at +1 is the only other forward above zero. So three forwards in plus territory. Two of them are Eberle and Barzal. And I've watched lot of Islanders games this season - being in plus territory on that team is no small feat. Lee for example has five more points than Eberle but he's -20.

The real problem with the Islanders is that they have had the worst goaltending you can imagine. They just couldn't outscore the holes on their roster. And the sieves in net. Kind of like the Oilers this season to be honest. The blame falls on the GM who created an unbalanced roster. Eberle has been good this year. Barzal has been fantastic.

Was your point that Snow is an idiot? Cause that would be great except he's the idiot who swindled Chiarelli on back to back trades. That leaves Chiarelli .... umm ...

this is a feeble argument...Chiarelli swindled Bob Murray when he got Maroon, so by your logic Bob Murray is worse than Chiarelli

and my point was in the post to quoted...there's a lot more to teams than "talent"
its called roster balance...which the Isles lack severely

 

[Aerrol]

this is a feeble argument...Chiarelli swindled Bob Murray when he got Maroon, so by your logic Bob Murray is worse than Chiarelli

and my point was in the post to quoted...there's a lot more to teams than "talent"
its called roster balance...which the Isles lack severely

Murray lost Maroon in a minor deal - Maroon was not a major player on his team, and his roster did not change. Snow got Chiarelli to give him his entire second line (probably good enough offensively to be a first line on maybe a third of the teams in the league...) for... Griffin Reinhart and Ryan Strome. And now our scoring depth is complete trash.

Pretty major difference there.

 

[McDNicks17]

You got yourself a pool party wager. That's 2 bets we gotta keep track of now

You can use the betting exchange feature on this site to keep track of it.

It's pretty cool.

I'm about to collect my $1 from Soli for the first ever bet after moving over to this platform.

 

[guymez]

Murray lost Maroon in a minor deal - Maroon was not a major player on his team, and his roster did not change. Snow got Chiarelli to give him his entire second line (probably good enough offensively to be a first line on maybe a third of the teams in the league...) for... Griffin Reinhart and Ryan Strome. And now our scoring depth is complete trash.

Pretty major difference there.

There are a couple of important factors that you have left out...

1) Chia got the Ducks to eat some of Maroons salary
2) The cap savings on the Strome deal cant simply be dismissed outright

 

[McGoMcD]

There are a couple of important factors that you have left out...

1) Chia got the Ducks to eat some of Maroons salary
2) The cap savings on the Strome deal cant simply be dismissed outright

The Maroon deal was a win, but only a small one. It has been overblown. He fed of the best player in the game, and did ok with that chance.

The Strome deal has been overblown as a loss. Strome is 3 mill cheaper and 3 years younger. It is close enough to even.

However, fact remains none of those 2 deals come close to making up for Reinhart, Lucic, and Hall for Larsson.... not even close.

 

[oljimmy]

However, fact remains none of those 2 deals come close to making up for Reinhart, Lucic, and Hall for Larsson.... not even close.

Wait, people here think Chia screwed up the Hall-Larsson trade? I had no idea! What an interesting thought! Can you point me to some threads where there might be some discussion of this?

 

[guymez]

The Maroon deal was a win, but only a small one. It has been overblown. He fed of the best player in the game, and did ok with that chance.

The Strome deal has been overblown as a loss. Strome is 3 mill cheaper and 3 years younger. It is close enough to even.

However, fact remains none of those 2 deals come close to making up for Reinhart, Lucic, and Hall for Larsson.... not even close.

I would suggest to you that the Hall for Larsson deal has been overblown as well.
Why...because there are a couple of elements happening with Hall that most likely would not have happened if that trade wasn't made.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Hall matured as a person and consequently as a player from being traded. No doubt in my mind.
That matters a lot and its routinely overlooked.
Also...he is having a career year. It wont happen again next season IMO. These 2 elements skew that deal and make it appear much worse than it was.

There is no defending the Reinhart deal. It was just bad.

 

[Aerrol]

There are a couple of important factors that you have left out...

1) Chia got the Ducks to eat some of Maroons salary
2) The cap savings on the Strome deal cant simply be dismissed outright

1) The Ducks retained $500,000 on Maroon's salary. That's useful, but hardly a big deal. That's less than half of the hit Chia now has wasting away for us from buying Pouliot out last summer ($1.33million for 4 years).
2) The cap savings haven't been used to do jack shit for us this year. We would've been far better served just keeping Eberle until the deadline this year and then making a deal for him, where I remain confident that he'd easily fetch more than just Ryan Strome as a top line scoring winger.

But as oljimmy humourously points out, this is all been discussed ad-nauseum in the fire Chia thread, so I should probably leave it at that.

 

[guymez]

1) The Ducks retained $500,000 on Maroon's salary. That's useful, but hardly a big deal. That's less than half of the hit Chia now has wasting away for us from buying Pouliot out last summer ($1.33million for 4 years).
2) The cap savings haven't been used to do jack **** for us this year. We would've been far better served just keeping Eberle until the deadline this year and then making a deal for him, where I remain confident that he'd easily fetch more than just Ryan Strome as a top line scoring winger.

But as oljimmy humourously points out, this is all been discussed ad-nauseum in the fire Chia thread, so I should probably leave it at that.

I simply stated what you overlooked. You can downplay them all you want but they matter.

 

[Aerrol]

I simply stated what you overlooked. You can downplay them all you want but they matter.

But they're not material to the point I was addressing, which is that Murray losing a minor deal to Chia is in no way comparable to Chiarelli's consistent ownage by Garth Snow.

 

[McGoMcD]

I would suggest to you that the Hall for Larsson deal has been overblown as well.
Why...because there are a couple of elements happening with Hall that most likely would not have happened if that trade wasn't made.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Hall matured as a person and consequently as a player from being traded. No doubt in my mind.
That matters a lot and its routinely overlooked.
Also...he is having a career year. It wont happen again next season IMO. These 2 elements skew that deal and make it appear much worse than it was.

There is no defending the Reinhart deal. It was just bad.

well this is beaten to death in other threads so I won't say much. the thing is this point doens't even really matter. If Hall needed a change of sceenry and was goign to mature then Chia still needed to get more for him. If Hall was a great asset just needing to go somewhere else then Chia should have gotten a better deal for him. We don't know the offers on the table but I have no doubt many GMs new just this, either Hall was already good or would be, and gave better offers. I think Chia is just that terrible, he took one of the worst offers thinking the team needed a "non sexy" player to balance the roster. He wanted to mold the Bruins he won the cup with and made a terrible deal to do it. He rushed a deal and took a bad offer. THere is no evidence that Hall needed to go, or that no better offers were on the table. For the record there is evidence Hall wanted to stay, he said so in fact.

 

[MessierII]

But they're not material to the point I was addressing, which is that Murray losing a minor deal to Chia is in no way comparable to Chiarelli's consistent ownage by Garth Snow.

Garth Snow and Chiarelli were both hired summer 2006. Want to compare careers since then?

 

[Aerrol]

Garth Snow and Chiarelli were both hired summer 2006. Want to compare careers since then?

Yet again, no one said either was good. But if we're comparing GMs, I'd rather focus on the list of trades they specifically made and the players drafted by them and developed.

I am also lazy, so I don't feel like digging into all that right now - but I'd wager that the two of them probably have pretty similar track records, with Snow probably having a better trade record overall and worse drafting and developing record overall.

Also this has nothing to do with the thread at hand lol but I can't help responding so I'm part of the problem.

 

[KingKhron]

Puljujarvi hasn’t been as NHL ready as I expected and looks like he’s actually awkward in his body right now. Bambi on ice moments or Taylor Hall and Sammy Snowpants like. It concerning but there is great possibility that he’s like some big men that need the extra time. People were ranting about Draisaitl possibly being a bust when he got 9 points in a half a season his rookie year. And ya, if Pulju is on McDavid’s wing all of next year, 29 goals is not an impossible number. They were taking Sergachev if he was gone and the entire scouting world had 3 players they thought were NHL ready and Pulju was one of them. Let’s not tear them apart for this pick when they’ve done SO many other stupid things.

 

[nabob]

The Maroon deal was a win, but only a small one. It has been overblown. He fed of the best player in the game, and did ok with that chance.

The Strome deal has been overblown as a loss. Strome is 3 mill cheaper and 3 years younger. It is close enough to even.

However, fact remains none of those 2 deals come close to making up for Reinhart, Lucic, and Hall for Larsson.... not even close.

Getting a 27 goal scoring winger with salary retained for nothing is a small win?? It's one of the more lopsided trades for a player who was a NHLer at the time of the deal in recent memory.

You are right about the Strome deal. The only ones still crying about it are either the president of the Eberle fan club or people that are upset about other deals and projecting.