OHL Trades 2017-18 Season Thread

[RayzorIsDull]

The thing is that other teams recognize that London players....even their "spare parts" have been drafted because of proven scouting. In some instances, London's spares are equal to or better than what the acquiring team sees as their potential roster. A player that London has invested a couple of development years into is seen by competing GM's as being a bona fide OHL player. Not every team sees it this way, but enough do, so that the Knights will continue to replenish their draft pick arsenal, when restocking is needed. Do they warrant a "premium price" ? Apparently enough organizations around the league think so.

Mattinen was drafted in London by the same guy that drafted him in Toronto. Let's not start about the whole scouting thing. Mattinen is in a contract year or the Leafs drop him, he's played 106 OHL games I don't think he's any better than 20-21 other #4 or #5 D. The Knights and their people do a tremendous job of self promotion and many scouts just fall in line. London is also in the mecca of scouting heaven being 100 minutes away from Toronto. Scouts aren't going to spend their time in Windsor/Saginaw/Flint and drive 4-6 hours to see players consistently because they need to see numerous games during a week.

 

[dirty12]

? Didn't they take the OHL title in 2011, come awfully close to coming out of the toughest conference the CHL has seen in some time last year and are most people's favorite to take the title this year? That's AWFULLY good if it's not great. There's probably close to 15 teams that would trade for that level of success. Not to mention OS does have some small handicaps. Also, I think Ottersguy does have a point. London does usually have an excess of players. IF all the rest of the league were to hold firm and lowball them, it would put them in a bit of a spot, to cut, release, keep kids in JrA and possiy be disgruntled or trade them for fair or less value. It'll just never happen.

Collusion?

 

[dirty12]

Mattinen was drafted in London by the same guy that drafted him in Toronto. Let's not start about the whole scouting thing. Mattinen is in a contract year or the Leafs drop him, he's played 106 OHL games I don't think he's any better than 20-21 other #4 or #5 D. The Knights and their people do a tremendous job of self promotion and many scouts just fall in line. London is also in the mecca of scouting heaven being 100 minutes away from Toronto. Scouts aren't going to spend their time in Windsor/Saginaw/Flint and drive 4-6 hours to see players consistently because they need to see numerous games during a week.

Plenty of scouts around Detroit. Windsor - Flint - Plymouth offers OHL & USNDT

 

[FireBird71]

Plenty of scouts around Detroit. Windsor - Flint - Plymouth offers OHL & USNDT

Not to mention all the lower level teams in the Detroit area

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Plenty of scouts around Detroit. Windsor - Flint - Plymouth offers OHL & USNDT

We talking pro scouts or ohl scouts? I can tell how many pro scouts will be at the Spirit/Spits game tomorrow night and it won't be many.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Collusion?

That's not collusion.

 

[PhlyerPhanatic31]

yep. this is exactly what it boils down to. if every team ignored their trade calls for their spare part players, they would either have to release them or face other guys not signing because they have a crowded ship. no need to over pay for guys just because they come from london

Pretty sure the Mattinen deal was Flint inquiring about his services..and London naming their price. Can't fault the Knights if a team is stupid enough to pony up

 

[dirty12]

That's not collusion.

If all the GMs collude to low ball London, that is collusion. For as long as London is the best at attracting the best and the best at developing jr aged players, a premium will be paid for players good enough to be rostered by London

 

[RayzorIsDull]

If all the GMs collude to low ball London, that is collusion. For as long as London is the best at attracting the best and the best at developing jr aged players, a premium will be paid for players good enough to be rostered by London

What is illegal about general managers holding firm and trying to low ball a team? How would London be able to prove this act? All they would have to go by are what the offers opposing teams have but that's the prerogative of each organization. First of all not every organization has the exact same draft picks of every other organization. I don't necessarily buy this idea that the Knights are the best at developing jr aged players. I heard for a long time Ben Gleason was the new hotness, big time prospect from Michigan and he lasted all of a year. Jacob Golden stud D that the Knights convinced to leave a ivy league scholarship played half the year last year. If the Knights were the best at developing this talent why don't they win every year?

 

[stormfanone]

Mattinen was drafted in London by the same guy that drafted him in Toronto. Let's not start about the whole scouting thing. Mattinen is in a contract year or the Leafs drop him, he's played 106 OHL games I don't think he's any better than 20-21 other #4 or #5 D. The Knights and their people do a tremendous job of self promotion and many scouts just fall in line. London is also in the mecca of scouting heaven being 100 minutes away from Toronto. Scouts aren't going to spend their time in Windsor/Saginaw/Flint and drive 4-6 hours to see players consistently because they need to see numerous games during a week.

Did you notice Guelph, Kitchener, Hamilton, Missy and several other teams are closer to TO then the Knights,

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Pretty sure the Mattinen deal was Flint inquiring about his services..and London naming their price. Can't fault the Knights if a team is stupid enough to pony up

It's good for business Barclay Branch the son of David Branch gets to give some high picks away to the franchise his father swoons over.

 

[sirius67fan]

If all the GMs collude to low ball London, that is collusion. For as long as London is the best at attracting the best and the best at developing jr aged players, a premium will be paid for players good enough to be rostered by London

I have no problem if fair value is paid for the players but in recent years teams like Flint and Sudbury payed way too much. Ottawa made two trades with the knights recently. Liam Herbst for a 2nd and a cond 4rth and Rymsha for a 2nd and conditionnal 3rd. That's reasonable value, fair to say we slightly overpaid for Herbst and underpaid for Rymsha (we got 2 seconds, 2 thirds when we traded him). But two seconds, two thirsds for Mattinen??? Come on. Just some stupid GM's out there. Its not about colluding against the Knights, its about common sense. If I was the Knights of course I make those deals.

 

[aresknights]

GMs pay cause they think it will make their teams better. No way 19 teams agree to not trade for a player from London, an agreement with their competitors who they are are trying to best. Its silly.
What will they say to each other? (Ssshhhhh, no one pay more than a 3rd rd pick for any Knights player lol)
London got a great return for a average D. That's it. Its happened before in this league with other teams, it'll happen again.

 

[EON]

I have no problem if fair value is paid for the players but in recent years teams like Flint and Sudbury payed way too much. Ottawa made two trades with the knights recently. Liam Herbst for a 2nd and a cond 4rth and Rymsha for a 2nd and conditionnal 3rd. That's reasonable value, fair to say we slightly overpaid for Herbst and underpaid for Rymsha (we got 2 seconds, 2 thirds when we traded him). But two seconds, two thirsds for Mattinen??? Come on. Just some stupid GM's out there. Its not about colluding against the Knights, its about common sense. If I was the Knights of course I make those deals.

Good point sirius. I'm not so sure it's about London players being over-hyped as it is GMs falling for it. Ottawa paid pretty fair prices in their deals with London. I think the Gleason trade was fair for both sides as well.

London is just good at getting high end guys late, who come in and replace their decent/pretty good players. Then they sucker bad GMs in who are desperate for talent and get them to overpay on picks. So they can buy and compete while still filling their draft cupboard back up. The cycle continues and it will continue until bad GMs stop overpaying for players that simply aren't high-end or they just draft better themselves.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

GMs pay cause they think it will make their teams better. No way 19 teams agree to not trade for a player from London, an agreement with their competitors who they are are trying to best. Its silly.
What will they say to each other? (Ssshhhhh, no one pay more than a 3rd rd pick for any Knights player lol)
London got a great return for a average D. That's it. Its happened before in this league with other teams, it'll happen again.

Right and this is why GM's are out of a job. GM's mindlessly think that their coach and organization can fix players with flaws.

 

[stormfanone]

I have no problem if fair value is paid for the players but in recent years teams like Flint and Sudbury payed way too much. Ottawa made two trades with the knights recently. Liam Herbst for a 2nd and a cond 4rth and Rymsha for a 2nd and conditionnal 3rd. That's reasonable value, fair to say we slightly overpaid for Herbst and underpaid for Rymsha (we got 2 seconds, 2 thirds when we traded him). But two seconds, two thirsds for Mattinen??? Come on. Just some stupid GM's out there. Its not about colluding against the Knights, its about common sense. If I was the Knights of course I make those deals.

Liam trade was made three years ago. Not recent. Traded to Storm just last year. They can draft better because they make millions more money then other teams. Resulting in have much more money to spend on scouting.

 

[vouve]

What is illegal about general managers holding firm and trying to low ball a team? How would London be able to prove this act? All they would have to go by are what the offers opposing teams have but that's the prerogative of each organization. First of all not every organization has the exact same draft picks of every other organization. I don't necessarily buy this idea that the Knights are the best at developing jr aged players. I heard for a long time Ben Gleason was the new hotness, big time prospect from Michigan and he lasted all of a year. Jacob Golden stud D that the Knights convinced to leave a ivy league scholarship played half the year last year. If the Knights were the best at developing this talent why don't they win every year?

Post of the year. Mahalo!!!

 

[BrunoDaBear]

I'm just saying, other GM's overate players from the knights. They traded away Marsellis Subban for a 4th round pick! And he was terrible. Some teams GM's always get fleeced when dealing with London.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I'm just saying, other GM's overate players from the knights. They traded away Marsellis Subban for a 4th round pick! And he was terrible. Some teams GM's always get fleeced when dealing with London.

Yes other GM's overrate their players at the same time there have been a few London players overrated by their own fans, and scouts.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Once again the false narratives have opened up in the OHL season with little in the way of facts entering the conversations.

I went through the last 5 years of the Knights trading a player(s) off their roster and could only find one other deal where it seemed lopsided from the beginning - Aiden Jamieson to Sudbury in 2016.

I would think many teams were happy to take Valentini, Elie, Gleason, Rymsha, Henderson, Liberati, Platzer, Centorame, Sherwood, Raine, etc at affordable prices.

Many people thought Flint was robbed last year for Kole Sherwood because of who they were trading with. 2 second round picks for an 85 point player would leave me happy if I was the team acquiring the player.

Candella may or may not be better than Mattinen, is the same age, and went for a similar price today.

There is little talk of how lopsided the deal is there.

I can't help but wonder if certain fans and media members are again getting their panties in a bunch over one particular team.

Stick to gut feelings and narratives, OHL!

These aren't false narratives these are the thoughts of fans. Just because you think other teams got fair value for above mentioned players doesn't mean fans here believe that same opinion.

Nobody is getting their panties in a bunch people are merely curious how a guy who has played 106 games in the OHL hardly proving of a top 4 D man is worth that price. Even Flint fans are wondering that so who are the media members getting their panties in a bunch then?

 

[Purple Phart]

If the Knights were the best at developing this talent why don't they win every year?

In team sports, nobody wins every year. However, if a team demonstrates a level of consistancy when it comes to winning, then others tend to take notice. Their talent pool is then viewed in a slightly elevated perspective, when compared to teams with a less than consistant record. That viewpoint may be distorted, and I'd be the first to admitt to that possibility, but if competing GM's secumb to that notion, then the Knights organization would be crazy not to take advantage of that situation.......and so they do.

An analogy might be if you were to go shopping for a good serviceable used vehicle, would you rather buy a Chevy, or an Accura ? Both fit the requirement, but one has a certain " Brand appeal" that the other doesn't. Guess which one usually sells for more ?

 

[Snippit]

These aren't false narratives these are the thoughts of fans. Just because you think other teams got fair value for above mentioned players doesn't mean fans here believe that same opinion.

Nobody is getting their panties in a bunch people are merely curious how a guy who has played 106 games in the OHL hardly proving of a top 4 D man is worth that price. Even Flint fans are wondering that so who are the media members getting their panties in a bunch then?

But look at the guys he's mentioned. The Knights "spare parts" have quite often gone on to have productive OHL careers once put in bigger roles.

 

[ScoresFromCentre]

Trade list is updated.

Re: the Knights squeezing water from a stone, as a GM I think you have to look at London's past deals and recognize that it's tough to get a good deal from them. That said, if you can't trust your own scouts to accurately assess a player's value, you've got bigger problems. I have more sympathy for kids who enter the league specifically to play for London and end up getting forced out by the numbers game. By most accounts these players end up in situations they're happy with, but simple numbers suggest that some of these players are going to get forced out, and I wonder what the tenor of London's recruiting discussions is in this light.

Side note: Mattinen went for more than Stanley. Let's put to rest the notion that Windsor got fair value for Stanley, please.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

But look at the guys he's mentioned. The Knights "spare parts" have quite often gone on to have productive OHL careers once put in bigger roles.

If you look at those players mentioned like Jamieson/Valentini/Mattinen. There's one person responsible for all those trades Barclay Branch. He's been a huge reason why the Knights have been able to pawn players off for high picks. Valentini has had a pedestrian career to date. Is there another organization that sells off players that have proven less for more?

How about that Herbst trade?

The thing is when these guys sign with the Knights they tell you everything you want to hear. You're the new flavor of the month until you aren't.

 

[OHL4Life]

Pretty sure the Mattinen deal was Flint inquiring about his services..and London naming their price. Can't fault the Knights if a team is stupid enough to pony up

If you look at those players mentioned like Jamieson/Valentini/Mattinen. There's one person responsible for all those trades Barclay Branch. He's been a huge reason why the Knights have been able to pawn players off for high picks. Valentini has had a pedestrian career to date. Is there another organization that sells off players that have proven less for more?

its not many teams, like razar said, its just one guy lol. i have a feeling the other gms are forming a petition to stop branch from trading with london lol