Speculation: Offseason Thread XVII: Trade a spade for a jade

[WhatTheDuck]

he sucks. U can make all the excuses u want..but unless you're taking a wonder twin back, I wouldn't want him.

Take any Dman in the league who isn't a true #1, and make them play a #1 role with Kevin Bieksa as their partner, and I guarantee they will have an ugly looking hero chart. It's not an excuse, it's common sense.

 

[TheTakedown]

Mcilrath?

my bad, edited! thanks!

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Montour+2nd for Miller works for us.

Is it Montour for Miller straight up or bust for you guys?

I think Miller has more value than Montour. Montour is what Miller was a few years ago, a highly rated, but not elite prospect. Miller has turned into a top 6 NHL player, Montour could turn into a top 4D. I don't feel like it makes sense to trade a young top 6 forward for a top 4D prospect, unless there's something added in. I like the idea of a Miller for Montour trade as the base, but there needs to be more in it for the Rangers to make the commitment to trade the proven commodity for prospect.

As I proposed yesterday and a couple pages back, I would add Ottawa's 2nd rounder, and would ask the Rangers to also take Nate Thompson ( he's on LTIR for the year so no cap hit for you guys to worry about, just helps the Ducks fit Miller into their budget).

 

[Inferno]

Take any Dman in the league who isn't a true #1, and make them play a #1 role with Kevin Bieksa as their partner, and I guarantee they will have an ugly looking hero chart. It's not an excuse, it's common sense.

its kinda funny that Bieksas numbers actually get slightly better without Fowler than with him..youd have to wonder how much of that is just because....they both suck.

 

[TheTakedown]

Would something around Despres and Lindberg makes sense?

absolutely. With all our centers here long term (Stepan isn't being moved Zib is young, Hayes is here long term, Jooris hopefully is here for a long time), I'd definitely be open to moving Lindberg

 

[Inferno]

i have no interest whatsoever in Fowler..we'll just have to agree to disagree...i dont wanna be the a-hole that antagonizes a good fan from another board...so lets start over. Nice to have you in the discussion man. But I dont like Fowler, so he wouldnt be a target of mine. Ive wanted the rangers to go after Honka for a while now...he's one of my big time targets.

 

[TheTakedown]

Agreed shouldn't be playing those mins but he's far from a spare part. Legit NHL dman good pker should be on our third pairing.

Skjei right now would have to play the right side which is what I mean things are very screwy

I think we're far from done right now.

You look at the Jets they've got nothing behind wheeler and Ehlers on the wing as far as im concerned. Lot of of question marks.

could use a lefty D too

Trouba should definitely be on the radar

Would the jets want Fowler?

to ANA: Lindberg, Nash
to WPG: Fowler, picks
to NYR: Depres, Thompson, Pick(s)

 

[TheTakedown]

As I proposed yesterday and a couple pages back, I would add Ottawa's 2nd rounder, and would ask the Rangers to also take Nate Thompson ( he's on LTIR for the year so no cap hit for you guys to worry about, just helps the Ducks fit Miller into their budget).

I;d do that

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Take any Dman in the league who isn't a true #1, and make them play a #1 role with Kevin Bieksa as their partner, and I guarantee they will have an ugly looking hero chart. It's not an excuse, it's common sense.

Don't worry about the people around here that are saying he sucks. We appreciate your contribution towards a D for F trade.

I'm not someone who follows advanced stats, so I couldn't tell you how Fowler scores in those, but I assume pretty poorly since a lot of HF thinks he's bad. I don't watch a ton of Ducks games, but from what I've seen, he's no less than a 3, maybe a 2. He more than helps the Rangers in an area of need with his skating, points, puck moving, regardless of whether he has good advanced stats. I thought he was likely going to become a 1D, and he hasn't so far, maybe he has stagnated, but he's still a good player, and I'd consider him as a trade option, but I do feel like his market is not one we want to get into. If you want to do something like Miller or Hayes for Fowler, thats a deal I'd make, but if Fowler is going to be valued like a first pairing defenseman when he's likely not one, and there are questions over his game stagnating, and some evidence that he might be heading towards regressing, I think its risky for a team to buy into that valuation of him.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

As I proposed yesterday and a couple pages back, I would add Ottawa's 2nd rounder, and would ask the Rangers to also take Nate Thompson ( he's on LTIR for the year so no cap hit for you guys to worry about, just helps the Ducks fit Miller into their budget).

That works well.

 

[TheTakedown]

Don't worry about the people around here that are saying he sucks. We appreciate your contribution towards a D for F trade.

I'm not someone who follows advanced stats, so I couldn't tell you how Fowler scores in those, but I assume pretty poorly since a lot of HF thinks he's bad. I don't watch a ton of Ducks games, but from what I've seen, he's no less than a 3, maybe a 2. He more than helps the Rangers in an area of need with his skating, points, puck moving, regardless of whether he has good advanced stats. I thought he was likely going to become a 1D, and he hasn't so far, maybe he has stagnated, but he's still a good player, and I'd consider him as a trade option, but I do feel like his market is not one we want to get into. If you want to do something like Miller or Hayes for Fowler, thats a deal I'd make, but if Fowler is going to be valued like a first pairing defenseman when he's likely not one, and there are questions over his game stagnating, and some evidence that he might be heading towards regressing, I think its risky for a team to buy into that valuation of him.

Good post PB

 

[silverfish]

Miller for Fowler would be a horrible deal for the Rangers.

You know it's serious when I say that.

 

[Kovalev27]

Kyle Connor and Patrik Laine are probably top 10 prospects leaguewide. They'll fill out the other top 6 spots. Agree that LHD is a need for them. Stuart and Enstrom suck.

They're like twelve though. penciling them in to top spots is a stretch id say at their ages no?

I think they could use a top 6 proven wing desperately and a lefty D.

Would you build a deal around Skjei and trouba? I'd add zucc if they gave me back a 2nd round pick or a solid prospect if I'm being honest

 

[WhatTheDuck]

its kinda funny that Bieksas numbers actually get slightly better without Fowler than with him..youd have to wonder how much of that is just because....they both suck.

When Bieksa wasn't playing with Fowler, he was paired with Vatanen in a more sheltered role. There are some things you're hero chart just won't tell you without actually following a team.

But hey don't take my word for it, a lot of your fellow Rangers fans will tell you the same - http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2107933&page=7

I'm not sure where the random Fowler hate is coming from considering no one was talking about him. If you're just trying to get a rise out of me that's pretty sad considering that we were having a perfectly reasonable conversation here until you came along with your garbage. Respond however you like, this is my last post on the matter.

Edit - didnt see your last post before responding. I appreciate the sentiment and we're good, certainly not looking for a pissing contest.

 

[Inferno]

Don't worry about the people around here that are saying he sucks. We appreciate your contribution towards a D for F trade.

I'm not someone who follows advanced stats, so I couldn't tell you how Fowler scores in those, but I assume pretty poorly since a lot of HF thinks he's bad. I don't watch a ton of Ducks games, but from what I've seen, he's no less than a 3, maybe a 2. He more than helps the Rangers in an area of need with his skating, points, puck moving, regardless of whether he has good advanced stats. I thought he was likely going to become a 1D, and he hasn't so far, maybe he has stagnated, but he's still a good player, and I'd consider him as a trade option, but I do feel like his market is not one we want to get into. If you want to do something like Miller or Hayes for Fowler, thats a deal I'd make, but if Fowler is going to be valued like a first pairing defenseman when he's likely not one, and there are questions over his game stagnating, and some evidence that he might be heading towards regressing, I think its risky for a team to buy into that valuation of him.

ive seen him enough to know that im not a fan. plus he makes 4 mil a year already....plus probably looking for 6+ on his next deal...and playing with guys like Perry, Getzlaf, etc, and him playing the most PP mins per game of any Duck...and him having a TOTAL of 8 non power play points...for a defenseman making what he makes and is supposedly an offensive defenseman...

i mean, hes an offensive defenseman, but the only defenseman he outscored at even stength last year for the rangers was Dylan McIlrath. Thats it. and McIlrath scored at the same E.S. pace that Fowler did.

 

[RangerBoy]

Thompson is not on long term IR. The team needs to be at or near the upper limit to take advantage of the cap space. The Rangers are not at or near the upper limit. I would be leery of dealing with Bob Murray. He can turn around and trade Miller to the Penguins for nothing like he did with Hagelin.

 

[Inferno]

i do wonder what it would take to get Jake Trouba out of Winnipeg.

Would Nash @50% + Klein be enough?

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Don't worry about the people around here that are saying he sucks. We appreciate your contribution towards a D for F trade.

I'm not someone who follows advanced stats, so I couldn't tell you how Fowler scores in those, but I assume pretty poorly since a lot of HF thinks he's bad. I don't watch a ton of Ducks games, but from what I've seen, he's no less than a 3, maybe a 2. He more than helps the Rangers in an area of need with his skating, points, puck moving, regardless of whether he has good advanced stats. I thought he was likely going to become a 1D, and he hasn't so far, maybe he has stagnated, but he's still a good player, and I'd consider him as a trade option, but I do feel like his market is not one we want to get into. If you want to do something like Miller or Hayes for Fowler, thats a deal I'd make, but if Fowler is going to be valued like a first pairing defenseman when he's likely not one, and there are questions over his game stagnating, and some evidence that he might be heading towards regressing, I think its risky for a team to buy into that valuation of him.

When it comes down to it, I think there are teams hungrier for Fowler than the Rangers who already have a lot of LHD. A Boston fan proposed Spooner + Senyshyn and a lot of their fans seemed in favor of it. There's also Detroit fans willing to give up Tatar + another strong asset. Those teams would consider Fowler their top LHD and that probably takes their interest farther than the Rangers would go, but I could be wrong.

Montour really does seem like the best fit for your needs.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Trouba should be the target. Problem is what the Rangers could move isn't what the Jets really want or need.

 

[Avery16]

I hope were not in on Fowler. He has second-pairing numbers and he's a LHS. He'd play behind McDonagh, not address our need for a RHS PMD, and with Staal there it just creates more problems.

And Miller is maybe the last winger on this team I'd move. Im not even a huge fan. But for Fowler? thats a fire-able trade. If for Vatanen, different story. But I'd rather move Nash with salary retained and picks for Vatanen. Or just Nash for Shattenkirk+.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Thompson is not on long term IR. The team needs to be at or near the upper limit to take advantage of the cap space. The Rangers are not at or near the upper limit. I would be leery of dealing with Bob Murray. He can turn around and trade Miller to the Penguins for nothing like he did with Hagelin.

Thompson is out until at least March so I'm assuming he will be placed on LTIR at some point.

Hagelin just flat out didn't fit with the Ducks style, I don't think moving him was a bad decision at all, we would be even worse financial shape if he was still here.

 

[Avery16]

I say this having just offered my own opinion about what I'd move for Vatanen/Shattenkirk (add Ristolainen to that), but fans' opinions about who they'd move for x arent worth a warm pile of ****. Most of us are so disconnected with the reality its not anything to base anything on.

 

[Inferno]

I say this having just offered my own opinion about what I'd move for Vatanen/Shattenkirk (add Ristolainen to that), but fans' opinions about who they'd move for x arent worth a warm pile of ****. Most of us are so disconnected with the reality its not anything to base anything on.

yeah...but its fun to talk about

 

[Inferno]

Trouba should be the target. Problem is what the Rangers could move isn't what the Jets really want or need.

what do the jets need? i look at their lineup on paper and they should have a really good team...so strange they never seem to make the playoffs.

 

[Inferno]

also, FYI, even though i just got through saying that Honka was my first choice, i'll edit that and say that my first choice is either Trouba or Ellis..those 2 guys would be PERFECT for this team. but Honka is my first realistic choice. and i just think that Dallas might be a better fit for what we have to offer.