Speculation: Offseason Thread XVII: Trade a spade for a jade

[WhatTheDuck]

I think that's the final move of the off-season. Everything points to a move for a young RHD. I think the likely possibility is one of the M&M boys in Anaheim, that being Manson or Montour.

As I've said before, I believe that reconstruction of the defense is the heaviest lifting Gorton has to do. If the plan remains getting younger, and the Brassard deal is the prototype, then all three of Nash, Klein and Zucc are vulnerable to being moved. Then Gorton has to find a way to rid himself of Staal and Girardi. In the process he needs to find a suitable partner for McDonagh, as well as a quality RH PMD to pair with Skjei. Holden then becomes a placeholder for Graves.

The ideal setup on D is the following:

McDonagh/XXX
Skjei/XXX
Holden/McIlrath

How Gorton gets there is the big mystery to be solved.

Manson is very unlikely to be moved. He can play in the Ducks top 4 while costing under $1M for the next two seasons, for a budget team that makes him more valuable to us than he would be in a trade.

Despres is a LHD but plays his best on the right side. He's much more likely to be available, and it would be a buy low situation for you guys due to his concussion concerns. If he's back to being healthy you would have a young top 4 dman for a lot cheaper than what you would normally pay.

Montour would be tough to part with unless we are adding to get some established yet affordable scoring help, basically that means Miller or bust from my perspective.

 

[Savant]

The 9 game thing has no bearing on Buchnevich. That has to do with 18 and 19 year old players.

Buchnevich is absolutely ready. The only question is how quickly he adapts to the smaller ice. If they feel like he needs more time to adjust, and feel that he can adjust more quickly in the AHL than the NHL, they will send him down. Otherwise, he will be in the NHL.

Too many damn rules.

 

[bernmeister]

Jeff Gorton speaking:
....
25 man roster. Lindberg on LTIR. 15 fwds at camp (including Glass, Buch, Vesey and Pirri). Plus Hrivik, Jensen and Lapierre. Need help on D. No trades incoming? Hahaha

I wish they could pull off something like this now (know btw that it is not happening like this from Berns World but still... this is an open forum with a speculation thread so...):

TRADES

• 
  [*]JT Miller, D McIllraith, a goalie prospect not from Russia for J Trouba and 2018 7th (=> Winnipeg)
• K Klein for J Honka, low pick (=> Dallas)
• M Staal, T Donnay + something small for E Kane, Derek Grant (minor league guy) (=> Buffalo)
• J Fast for Ville Pokka (=> Chicago)

LINEUP
E Kane - Step - Nash
Pirri - Zib - Zucc
Kreider - Hayes - Vesey
Grabner - Jooris (Lindberg) - Buch

Hrivik/Gerbe/Jensen/Lapierre

McD - Trouba
Skjei - Girardi
Holden - Honka/Pokka

Clendening

Hank
Raanta
.....

brother, while the door is open to all you are particularly invited to Bern's World, as you put it!

btw, it could be argued Gorton is listening TO ME.
younger
cheaper
control factors like cap, exp, draft etc rather than they control you


but enuf about me

[*]JT Miller, D McIllraith, a goalie prospect not from Russia for J Trouba and 2018 7th (=> Winnipeg)

they only want LD. McD. MAYBE Skjei but that is not good for us.

[*]K Klein for J Honka, low pick (=> Dallas)

Stars don't do Klein, let alone Klein+
BUT
here is where you make hay with a top goalie prospect whether or not from Russia.
I could see something around
Nash reduced, Raanta and G prospect
for
Honka, Gurianov + cap dump Hemsky
maybe small adds both sides
however, that assumes Stars will admit they need upgrade in net and make a move like this.

[*]M Staal, T Donnay + something small for E Kane, Derek Grant (minor league guy) (=> Buffalo)

a principal deal around M Staal is fine, but I expect they will require more overpayment to accept his NMC without one coming back.

[*]J Fast for Ville Pokka (=> Chicago)[/LIST]

doable

Bogosian sucks ass.
Can not half ass any trade for a RHD. Has to be at the very least a top 4 minute eater.

I was looking at Staal for Bogosian a few nights ago. Bogosian has a cheaper contract to buyout. Tim Murray has the Rangers connection to Staal. Bylsma coached Jordan Staal.

Not big on bogo, but if not a hockey trade and more important than the buyout is the NMC factor. Buf would take on Staal's NMC; does Bogo have one? If yes then not interested.

 

[RangerBoy]

Rutherford didn't have to deal with big contracts on D. Scuderi for Daley. Retained money in the deal. Gorton inherited two big monster contracts on D. Both are declining players.

 

[apoptygma]

Manson is very unlikely to be moved. He can play in the Ducks top 4 while costing under $1M for the next two seasons, for a budget team that makes him more valuable to us than he would be in a trade.

Despres is a LHD but plays his best on the right side. He's much more likely to be available, and it would be a buy low situation for you guys due to his concussion concerns. If he's back to being healthy you would have a young top 4 dman for a lot cheaper than what you would normally pay.

Montour would be tough to part with unless we are adding to get some established yet affordable scoring help, basically that means Miller or bust from my perspective.

Would it be easier to get any of them if we take some more salary back? (Stoner?)

 

[Trxjw]

Clark/Drury/the whole Rangers FO wouldn't bring Buch over if they didn't think he was ready for the NHL.

He's on the roster opening night.

They thought Tim Erixon was ready for the NHL as well. Look how that turned out.

I'm not saying Buchnevich won't be a great player, but he has a lot of adapting to do before he gets there. The Rangers aren't going to just hand over a spot when they have an abundance of competent bottom-six forwards on the roster.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I asked in the last closed thread- why not Fowler? Our fan base doesn't like him? With how much Ducks D has been discussed I don't see his name among their untouchables.

Two of Staal, G or Kline would be ideal to be moved. Likely just one.

He's a lefty, and there's already a glut on the left. Plus, considering they could have taken him in 2010 and passed, and there were rumblings that the Rangers weren't high on him, I don't see him as a target, unless the idea is to turn around and move him elsewhere.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Clark/Drury/the whole Rangers FO wouldn't bring Buch over if they didn't think he was ready for the NHL.

He's on the roster opening night.

Im sure they think the offensive side of his game is ready. What if he's a deer in headlights without the puck? This is the first time hes playing hockey in NA. Its almost unfair to expect him to step right in without some AHL seasoning.

 

[Gardner McKay]

They thought Tim Erixon was ready for the NHL as well. Look how that turned out.

I'm not saying Buchnevich won't be a great player, but he has a lot of adapting to do before he gets there. The Rangers aren't going to just hand over a spot when they have an abundance of competent bottom-six forwards on the roster.

I think it is easier for a forward to transition than a defenseman.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Would it be easier to get any of them if we take some more salary back? (Stoner?)

I don't see it, we have lesser pieces that can be used to get rid of Stoner's salary if need be, Manson and Montour are just too valuable to use in that type of deal.

In my opinion, our options in terms of moving a Dman to save money are trading Fowler for a cheaper young forward + appropriate futures, trading Despres for a cheap forward or futures and/or giving someone one of our 2nds to take on Stoner.

 

[Trxjw]

I think it is easier for a forward to transition than a defenseman.

That's a fair point, but I'm just saying that it's very hard to point at a guy and definitively say "he's NHL ready" until he's actually playing NHL minutes. You want kids to come in with a ton of confidence as opposed to overwhelming them from the get go.

I know we're all amped up for a trade, but unless you get the absolute best Pirri of his career, he's not replacing Nash. Unless you get a calder-caliber season out of Buchnevich, he's not going to replace what Zucc brings. There's a very real chance that the Rangers have brought in some "plan B" guys should Vesey and Buchnevich show that they need a little more seasoning.

I still think there could be something going with Florida given that they just cleared a ton of cap the morning before the Rangers signed an additional forward, but again, that could be me just letting some excitement cloud my judgement.

 

[Levitate]

appears to me that gorton is modeling this team after what pitts did last season

at one time, phil kessel was on their 3rd line. great scoring balance and 4 forward lines that all play. they roll out 4 lines non stop and its hard to shut them down. speed, depth and pressure won them the cup last season.

i can see that in what gorton is doing so far. still needs to add a skating dman who can jump up and push the puck.

That's the model that the Rangers used to get to the finals, it's not really something they have to look at Pittsburgh to model from. They just got away from it with losing some players and bringing in others that didn't work out well enough

I don't see it, we have lesser pieces that can be used to get rid of Stoner's salary if need be, Manson and Montour are just too valuable to use in that type of deal.

In my opinion, our options in terms of moving a Dman to save money are trading Fowler for a cheaper young forward + appropriate futures, trading Despres for a cheap forward or futures and/or giving someone one of our 2nds to take on Stoner.

Yah you know it seems to me that Anaheim has a lot of good D prospects but whenever someone mentions trading for one of them, they're all off limits and too good to be traded. Not sure if the math on that works out in the end and ultimately I think the idea is if you're looking to improve your roster elsewhere, moving someone like Despres (not much value) or Fowler (not as helpful to the Rangers at least because he's a left D) won't get you what your'e looking for.

Not saying there's a trade to be made with the Rangers, but I'm not sure you can just hold onto every D prospect if you're looking to improve the roster elsewhere

 

[apoptygma]

I don't see it, we have lesser pieces that can be used to get rid of Stoner's salary if need be, Manson and Montour are just too valuable to use in that type of deal.

In my opinion, our options in terms of moving a Dman to save money are trading Fowler for a cheaper young forward + appropriate futures, trading Despres for a cheap forward or futures and/or giving someone one of our 2nds to take on Stoner.

Too bad. Manson and Montour are exactly what NYR needs. Having traded all these picks and prospects the last years really makes us hard for us to plug the holes we have now :/

 

[silverfish]

Maybe GMJG is more comfortable packaging another roster player with Nash to get a bigger return rather than focusing on how much he'd need to retain on Nash to get proper value.

 

[Irishguy42]

Maybe GMJG is more comfortable packaging another roster player with Nash to get a bigger return rather than focusing on how much he'd need to retain on Nash to get proper value.

If he's packaging another player along with Nash, he either still needs to retain salary or he needs to take back a contract.

Who would we want to package with him, and to whom would we send that package (and what contract are we taking back?)

Lots of options, I think.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Too bad. Manson and Montour are exactly what NYR needs. Having traded all these picks and prospects the last years really makes us hard for us to plug the holes we have now :/

Montour could possibly be had, but only for an ideal return. Otherwise it's best to hold on and see if he takes to the NHL as well as he has each other level along the way. JT Miller is exactly what the Ducks need and is basically the only piece I see working from our end.

 

[Vitto79]

People act like Fast hasn't proven to be an offensive contributor anywhere in his career. The kid has always been touted as an offensive winger. Just because he understands how to play 2-way hockey doesn't mean he won't get better this season.

I think fast is perfect 4th line pk that can chip in w goes here and there

When healthy I go grabner , Lindberg , fast

 

[silverfish]

Montour could possibly be had, but only for an ideal return. Otherwise it's best to hold on and see if he takes to the NHL as well as he has each other level along the way. JT Miller is exactly what the Ducks need and is basically the only piece I see working from our end.

Uh-oh.

 

[Levitate]

I think fast is perfect 4th line pk that can chip in w goes here and there

When healthy I go grabner , Lindberg , fast

tbh I might rather stick with Jooris on that line but it'll come down to who keeps playing well and who doesn't get traded...

 

[Irishguy42]

With the addition of Grabner/Jooris, we don't need Fast to PK anymore.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think it is easier for a forward to transition than a defenseman.

I think so too. But with that said, lets look at the real problems from last season? Yes, the defense was atrocious, but almost equally atrocious was the forward support in the defensive end.

I think some of the offseason additions will help that, but if it continues to be a problem, I'd imagine Buchnevich will be one of the first forwards to take a seat.

 

[Levitate]

I think so too. But with that said, lets look at the real problems from last season? Yes, the defense was atrocious, but almost equally atrocious was the forward support in the defensive end.

I think some of the offseason additions will help that, but if it continues to be a problem, I'd imagine Buchnevich will be one of the first forwards to take a seat.

a lot of that falls on coaching IMO, as it was the same guys who did a better job in previous years

 

[GAGLine]

I know we're all amped up for a trade, but unless you get the absolute best Pirri of his career, he's not replacing Nash. Unless you get a calder-caliber season out of Buchnevich, he's not going to replace what Zucc brings.

I don't think the intent is for any of those players to replace what either Nash or Zucc bring. I think the idea is that if we can trade Nash or Zucc to upgrade the defense, then a Pirri, Vesey or Buchnevich can mitigate, but not replace, what we are losing on offense.

There's only 1 puck and only so much playing time. At a certain point, removing a player, even a very good player, isn't going to have that much of an effect on the overall output of the team. We traded Gaborik mid-season when everyone screamed that you don't trade a 40 goal scorer. Have we ever regretted that deal?

 

[Tawnos]

That's a fair point, but I'm just saying that it's very hard to point at a guy and definitively say "he's NHL ready" until he's actually playing NHL minutes. You want kids to come in with a ton of confidence as opposed to overwhelming them from the get go.

I know we're all amped up for a trade, but unless you get the absolute best Pirri of his career, he's not replacing Nash. Unless you get a calder-caliber season out of Buchnevich, he's not going to replace what Zucc brings. There's a very real chance that the Rangers have brought in some "plan B" guys should Vesey and Buchnevich show that they need a little more seasoning.

I still think there could be something going with Florida given that they just cleared a ton of cap the morning before the Rangers signed an additional forward, but again, that could be me just letting some excitement cloud my judgement.

It depends on what the goal is here. Are we taking a step back and thinking playoffs rather than Cup? If so, why should we care so much if these guys are replacing Nash or Zucc right at this second?

 

[WhatTheDuck]

That's the model that the Rangers used to get to the finals, it's not really something they have to look at Pittsburgh to model from. They just got away from it with losing some players and bringing in others that didn't work out well enough



Yah you know it seems to me that Anaheim has a lot of good D prospects but whenever someone mentions trading for one of them, they're all off limits and too good to be traded. Not sure if the math on that works out in the end and ultimately I think the idea is if you're looking to improve your roster elsewhere, moving someone like Despres (not much value) or Fowler (not as helpful to the Rangers at least because he's a left D) won't get you what your'e looking for.

Not saying there's a trade to be made with the Rangers, but I'm not sure you can just hold onto every D prospect if you're looking to improve the roster elsewhere

Fowler seems to be the guy being shopped as he represents the best chance of both saving money and bringing back a piece or two that help now and in the future. I realize he isn't the best fit for the Rangers so it's entirely possible there's no deal to be found between the teams.

Being so strapped financially, those affordable young Dmen are just too valuable to move. How is moving a guy like Montour or Manson supposed to benefit the team if we don't have any room to take on significant salary?