Speculation: Offseason Thread Pt V

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Chase Priskie signed with Carolina.

Wake up, Lou!

 

[mm11]

Wake up, Lou!

Lou is eating a nice piece of fish right now. No worries

 

[BelovedIsles]

Lee - Barzal - Ebs
MDC - Brock - Bailey
Leo - Beau - Ho sang
MM - Cizikas - Clutter

I like it

MDC in a top 6 role suggests how poor this offense is. Now we are plugging ‘hopefuls’ into important roles.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Wake up, Lou!

Wouldn’t make a difference. He still hasn’t figured out how to use his Jitterbug.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

MDC in a top 6 role suggests how poor this offense is. Now we are plugging ‘hopefuls’ into important roles.

Such sad pessimism. I just can't relate to that type of mindset. If MDC goes 20g-20a +5 this year, off and on the 3rd and 2nd line, it will be a huge boost to this team. And it's very realistic to expect that from him. He was an offensive machine in the AHL last year. His NHL time last season was mainly 3rd line minutes and he did well. 4th line in his playoff game.

A new, very confident MDC is stepping into camp this year and sending a message. Enjoy the show.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Such sad pessimism. I just can't relate to that type of mindset. If MDC goes 20g-20a +5 this year, off and on the 3rd and 2nd line, it will be a huge boost to this team. And it's very realistic to expect that from him. He was an offensive machine in the AHL last year. His NHL time last season was mainly 3rd line minutes and he did well. 4th line in his playoff game.

A new, very confident MDC is stepping into camp this year and sending a message. Enjoy the show.

Imho he can carve out a 3rd line role; he doesn’t have the quickness, confidence, or IQ to get into scoring position to unleash his *overrated shot.

Alas, most don’t share your views on MDC; I hope we all eat crow on him.

 

[buud]

MDC in a top 6 role suggests how poor this offense is. Now we are plugging ‘hopefuls’ into important roles.

It's no secret that we lack high end talent, and this also doesn't mean that we can't win. STL last year, chemistry is important, blah, blah, blah...

Trotz likes to be able to roll his lines, so I think he is ok with spreading it around. It is nice to be able to trust everyone on the bench, to at least be defensively responsible.

IDK what I'm saying lol. Just... don't be too bummed out. Ya never know. Having essentially the same team that had 103 pts. last year, come back, isn't the worst scenario, and I believe that LL will still be trying to add star power.

 

[BelovedIsles]

^dood, always appreciate your enthusiasm and support for the team (really).

The Blues had more elite talent and depth than NYI currently does. Call NYI a ‘poor mans’ St. Louis, if you may.

Imho, the team overachieved last year. New regime, structure, JT’s F U; players are going to respond. They did, admirably. Further, though they are more acquainted w the system, expectations, structure etc. I’m not so sure that will offset the ‘honeymoon effect.’

Additionally, leadership admitted that this team has a significant enough weakness—offense. Haven’t seen anything tangible done to address that. Yes...they ‘stormed the Bastille’ on Panarin, but it shouldn’t end there. Find a way to acquire offense.

Varly is a question mark as well. I see a mediocre team making a mediocre finish; so that has me bummed, if you will. I’ve seen too many iterations of that. Not getting my hopes up for a last minute acquisition that ‘moves the needle.’

 

[BrockLobster]

Lee - Barzal - Ebs
MDC - Brock - Bailey
Leo - Beau - Ho sang
MM - Cizikas - Clutter

I like it

Where does patrick laine fit in here?

 

[benedictTavares]

MDC in top 6 this season is screwedddddddd

 

[Islesfan22]

Where does patrick laine fit in here?

Probably a long term hold out for the Jets this season.

 

[Top Corner]

Looking at projected World Cup roster and
Don’t see any islanders outside of Sorkin for Russia.

Lou has the perfect system of not leaking news, for the most part it shelters him from
Any criticism due to no one knowing if he’s asleep or try to build on the talent.

 

[13th Floor]

Such sad pessimism. I just can't relate to that type of mindset. If MDC goes 20g-20a +5 this year, off and on the 3rd and 2nd line, it will be a huge boost to this team. And it's very realistic to expect that from him. He was an offensive machine in the AHL last year. His NHL time last season was mainly 3rd line minutes and he did well. 4th line in his playoff game.

A new, very confident MDC is stepping into camp this year and sending a message. Enjoy the show.

You still have yet to show any good reason as to why MDC would suddenly become a TWENTY goal scorer in the NHL, and then get all pissy when everyone says something to you as if we are being negative. The only thing you point to is that he looked good in the AHL, and then we come back and mention the very large number of players that were able to put up points in the AHL that simply can't do it in the NHL. You don't even have to look very far back in our own history to find a host of players that fit this description, let alone around the league.

You are penciling him in to be our 3rd highest goal scorer if the numbers hold from last year. And you think we're crazy for scoffing at that? Beau just went 18-10-28. You are expecting a vastly superior year to what Beau just did from a player who has struggled mightily since his draft year.

This is the issue my friend. Stop acting like our insistence on pumping the brakes is a knock at MDC and somehow a shot at you. We all want him to do well. I would be THRILLED if he put up a 20-20-40 year. But the massive amounts of historical evidence sides with our theory, which puts the burden of proof on you to show us what in his NHL game signals to you that his game will all of a sudden take off.

Stop taking this as an ad hominem attack. Why don't you name us some high draft picks that were touted as being offensive-minded prospects that have barely cracked the NHL by their age 23 season (32 total GP) and suddenly became above average offensive players? If you can name 5 players in recent NHL history that fit this mold, lay it on us. I can easily name 5 players who wore the Islanders jersey in recent history that fit my theory.

Let's take a look at his scouting report: Michael Dal Colle

Praised for his goal scoring and his shot, yet he has scored either 0 or 1 goal in the NHL from his shot. I'm forgetting one of his goals from last year, but I distinctly remember the first 2 were just deflections. Not taking anything away from him for those goals, but that doesn't exactly inspire confidence in someone who has supposedly got drafted for an NHL-ready shot and so far in his career at an 82-game pace he's on pace for like... 3 goals with his shot. And then the rest of his scouting report mentions that he needs to work on his quickness, agility, and balance. He's definitely improved his skating, and I get that you watch BST games and can attest to that. But all the rest of the news and notes over the past 5 years have pointed to these weaknesses as the reason for his inability to crack our lineup consistently. He hasn't even been close to making the team out of camp when all healthy. And from the 32 games I've seen of him at the NHL level, he can barely get his shot off, which points exactly to the flaws mentioned in his draft year.

As I said, I would LOVE for him to turn it around. Yes, he's still young. He can definitely turn out a solid NHL career even if he doesn't become a high-octane offensive power that we hoped when we drafted him. Think of someone like a Ryan Strome, and then remember that even he made our team as a rookie and put up 50 points. At the current rate, it is going to take a decade for MDC to get to 50 NHL points.

 

[13th Floor]

^dood, always appreciate your enthusiasm and support for the team (really).

The Blues had more elite talent and depth than NYI currently does. Call NYI a ‘poor mans’ St. Louis, if you may.

Imho, the team overachieved last year. New regime, structure, JT’s F U; players are going to respond. They did, admirably. Further, though they are more acquainted w the system, expectations, structure etc. I’m not so sure that will offset the ‘honeymoon effect.’

Additionally, leadership admitted that this team has a significant enough weakness—offense. Haven’t seen anything tangible done to address that. Yes...they ‘stormed the Bastille’ on Panarin, but it shouldn’t end there. Find a way to acquire offense.

Varly is a question mark as well. I see a mediocre team making a mediocre finish; so that has me bummed, if you will. I’ve seen too many iterations of that. Not getting my hopes up for a last minute acquisition that ‘moves the needle.’

Agreed that I don't expect big acquisition. I think what we learned this offseason is that shaking the stink off the Isles brand is going to take longer than we hoped. It was clear what UFAs we were in on and which ones we needed to help our team, but it's also clear that they just do not want to pick us, yet at least. It will take a culture of winning and commitment from a front office to get that done, and 1 year doesn't make that.

The RFA climate right now and the potentially impending trades as a result of those contracts are interesting, but I still don't have my hopes up. We are in a weird spot. Leddy for some offensive talent definitely makes the most sense, but it is going to depend entirely on what the cost is. I don't think we're in a position to completely mortgage our future because I don't think we are just 1 piece away. Yea we got far last year, but getting swept by the team that got swept by the team that ultimately lost in the finals is still a large leap away, especially for a team that many think overachieved. If we can find a steal of a trade because a team is in cap hell, then I think we see something major. But if that doesn't fall into our laps, I don't expect Lou to make a big trade that gives us high end NHL talent just to make a move because of what we would have to give up in future assets. And he's already learned in one offseason that this is a team that needs to build through the draft and double down on development because (1) that's how the salary cap era works and (2) we can't sign any of the damn UFAs.

The one thing I will disagree with slightly though is I'm a bit more bullish on Varly than others seem to be. Lehner was all the proof I needed. He was just as much of a question mark last year and was a much bigger wild card than Varly. I think it shows that our entire coaching staff can get the most out of a goalie and I also think it shows they know how to scout for a goalie that they think they can make work. Lou has a record of always getting a goalie. The fact that they took one of the biggest goalie question marks in the league and made him a Vezina finalist means I trust their ability to know what they are getting in Varly and know exactly what to fine tune to remove that question mark.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

You don't even have to look very far back in our own history to find a host of players that fit this description, let alone around the league.

You also don't have to look far to find examples of power forwards that took longer to develop. You can even find some in our organization. Todd Bertuzzi rings a bell. It really doesn't matter what any of us think anyway. If 60% of isles fans on HF had their way JHS would be on every PP, getting first line minutes.

I see MDC trending way up. It doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks. When it does happen, I don't really care to say "I told you so" either. Doesn't matter to me. It's just an observation based upon what my eyes saw watching him play the last two season. Most improved player from one season to another by anyone in the organization.

 

[13th Floor]

You also don't have to look far to find examples of power forwards that took longer to develop. You can even find some in our organization. Todd Bertuzzi rings a bell. It really doesn't matter what any of us think anyway. If 60% of isles fans on HF had their way JHS would be on every PP, getting first line minutes.

I see MDC trending way up. It doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks. When it does happen, I don't really care to say "I told you so" either. Doesn't matter to me. It's just an observation based upon what my eyes saw watching him play the last two season. Most improved player from one season to another by anyone in the organization.

I know you say you don't have to look very far, but would you mind providing more examples than Bertuzzi so we could continue the discussion? Because that's way too vague.

Here's a couple of problems I have with Bertuzzi.

First, I don't think MDC was ever touted as a power forward. Sure he's got a bigger grame, but big doesn't mean power forward. From everything I've seen of him from draft year onward has been about 'goal scoring' and not about 'power'. When I think of a power forward, I think of an Eric Lindros. A guy that was just punishing. MDC doesn't seem like that at all. His entire draft profile pointed to his shot and scoring ability around the net and never mentioned anything about being a menacing power forward. In fact, the knock on his lack of agility and balance hurts his ability to be a power forward and is evidenced by the eye-test in that he doesn't seem hard enough to move off the puck given his size.

Second, Bertuzzi had quite a bit of weight on MDC. MDC is 6'3 and 200. That doesn't exactly scream 'power' to me. Brock Nelson is the same height and weighs more. Not exactly a power forward to me. Height doesn't mean power forward, especially in a league that under 6-foot is becoming 'small'.

Third, Bertuzzi debuted for the Isles when he was 20 and put up a 18-21-39 year. So his rookie campaign is about what you are expecting MDC to do this year when MDC has shown no evidence to be able to do that. So there was precedent for Bertuzzi to have his 50-point season when he was 24. You are expecting MDC to have the same time of year at around the same age when he hasn't even been able to do anything remotely close to it, which is why your comments are being quoted because the jump you are predicting is pretty unprecedented.

Lastly, whenever I post something long and you cut 95% out of it when you quote me and hardly give a backed-up response, it only further strengthens my belief. We get it, you like the dude. So do we. He's an Islander. I want him badly to succeed. We all do.

It shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks, as you said. And I will most definitely come on here, quote you, and admit I was wrong if MDC puts up a 20-20-40 season. I'm simply pointing out that you've been calling MDC 'a sure-fire NHL superstar' for a few months now and I'm asking you to back it up with some reasoning.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

I know you say you don't have to look very far, but would you mind providing more examples than Bertuzzi so we could continue the discussion? Because that's way too vague.

Here's a couple of problems I have with Bertuzzi.

First, I don't think MDC was ever touted as a power forward. Sure he's got a bigger grame, but big doesn't mean power forward. From everything I've seen of him from draft year onward has been about 'goal scoring' and not about 'power'. When I think of a power forward, I think of an Eric Lindros. A guy that was just punishing. MDC doesn't seem like that at all. His entire draft profile pointed to his shot and scoring ability around the net and never mentioned anything about being a menacing power forward. In fact, the knock on his lack of agility and balance hurts his ability to be a power forward and is evidenced by the eye-test in that he doesn't seem hard enough to move off the puck given his size.

Second, Bertuzzi had quite a bit of weight on MDC. MDC is 6'3 and 200. That doesn't exactly scream 'power' to me. Brock Nelson is the same height and weighs more. Not exactly a power forward to me. Height doesn't mean power forward, especially in a league that under 6-foot is becoming 'small'.

Third, Bertuzzi debuted for the Isles when he was 20 and put up a 18-21-39 year. So his rookie campaign is about what you are expecting MDC to do this year when MDC has shown no evidence to be able to do that. So there was precedent for Bertuzzi to have his 50-point season when he was 24. You are expecting MDC to have the same time of year at around the same age when he hasn't even been able to do anything remotely close to it, which is why your comments are being quoted because the jump you are predicting is pretty unprecedented.

Lastly, whenever I post something long and you cut 95% out of it when you quote me and hardly give a backed-up response, it only further strengthens my belief. We get it, you like the dude. So do we. He's an Islander. I want him badly to succeed. We all do.

It shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks, as you said. And I will most definitely come on here, quote you, and admit I was wrong if MDC puts up a 20-20-40 season. I'm simply pointing out that you've been calling MDC 'a sure-fire NHL superstar' for a few months now and I'm asking you to back it up with some reasoning.

Al Secord 20 when he made it to the NHL 23 when he broke out
Keith Tkachuk Drafted in ‘90 Decent in ‘93 season Breaks out in ‘94
Rick Tochett Drafted in ‘83 Decent NHL season in ‘87 Breaks out in ‘88
Dirk Graham drafted in ‘79 breaks out in ‘86
Shane Doan
Wheeler and schieffle on the WPJs


Eric Lindross is a one of a king player. Not fair to have him as the standard of what a Power forward is.

 

[13th Floor]

Al Secord 20 when he made it to the NHL 23 when he broke out
Keith Tkachuk Drafted in ‘90 Decent in ‘93 season Breaks out in ‘94W
Rick Tochett Drafted in ‘83 Decent NHL season in ‘87 Breaks out in ‘88
Dirk Graham drafted in ‘79 breaks out in ‘86
Shane Doan
Wheeler and schieffle on the WPJs


Eric Lindross is a one of a king player. Not fair to have him as the standard of what a Power forward is.

And why did you not rebut all of my reasons for why MDC is not a power forward?

And none of those first names are recent. And frankly, none are good comparable examples. You went back 25 years to find people when scouting and development isn't what it is today (the development that has kept MDC off NHL lineups), all of whom to your admission, had decent seasons whereas MDC can't even crack a lineup for a franchise that historically sucks.

Schiefele? Really? The dude who in his first full season at age 20 put up 13-24-31. Then 49 and 61 points. Finally 82 in his 24 year old season. Wheeler put up 21-24-45 in his first season. At least you actually named a power forward though. You are comparing MDC to Schiefele. That's insane dude.

The difference between everyone you are naming and MDC is that they all had common trajectories. MDC was a 5th overall pick who can't even crack an NHL line up and when he did, barely put up any goals/points, whereas everyone else either did so in their early years, or in Wheeler's case, waited until age 22 and then came in hot.

You do see the massive difference right? Not to mention all the other points in my posts that you are conveniently ignoring?

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

And why did you not rebut all of my reasons for why MDC is not a power forward?

And none of those first names are recent. And frankly, none are good comparable examples.

No point. I named names like you asked, and you dismiss them as "old names" lol. What's the point of responding to your points when you dismiss mine. Believe what you want bud.

 

[13th Floor]

No point. I named names like you asked, and you dismiss them as "old names" lol. What's the point of responding to your points when you dismiss mine. Believe what you want bud.

Lol. Thanks for proving my point that you can't make an argument and can't hold a discussion. You mention Schiefele and Wheeler who are modern examples and I rebut them, but of course you ignore that. Just like for 3 posts now I mentioned that MDC is not a power forward, but you have yet to even address that.

You are right, there's no point in responding when you can't even make points in a decent debate.

If you want to say dumb shit like MDC is going to be a "sure NHL SUPERSTAR" be prepared to back it up. We had to read your posts for months saying this dumb shit.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

Lol. Thanks for proving my point that you can't make an argument and can't hold a discussion. You mention Schiefele and Wheeler who are modern examples and I rebut them, but of course you ignore that. Just like for 3 posts now I mentioned that MDC is not a power forward, but you have yet to even address that.

You are right, there's no point in responding when you can't even make points in a decent debate.

If you want to say dumb **** like MDC is going to be a "sure NHL SUPERSTAR" be prepared to back it up. We had to read your posts for months saying this dumb ****.

Congrats man you won! Your trophy is in the mail. Enjoy.

 

[xECK29x]

Quit the back and forth, for the record MDC hasn’t proven anything just yet though I’m excited to see if he gets a full time spot, though let’s be honest we all hope there is a solid upgrade in the top 6 before camp to push him down.

 

[buud]

You know, I talked myself into thinking that Koivula needs a good look. His size would be welcome in the top 6. Yeah, let's see how training camp goes, but his versatility would be awesome right now.

I know he's played C and RW, is listed as a LW on CapFriendly, and is a lefty. Wouldn't surprise me if they tried him anywhere from 2nd LW, to 3rd LW/C/RW, to 4th LW/C/RW.

I am sure that someone is going to question skating, to which I'd agree. I'd like to see if he's improved it, this offseason.

 

[SI]

You know, I talked myself into thinking that Koivula needs a good look. His size would be welcome in the top 6. Yeah, let's see how training camp goes, but his versatility would be awesome right now.

I know he's played C and RW, is listed as a LW on CapFriendly, and is a lefty. Wouldn't surprise me if they tried him anywhere from 2nd LW, to 3rd LW/C/RW, to 4th LW/C/RW.

I am sure that someone is going to question skating, to which I'd agree. I'd like to see if he's improved it, this offseason.

I am super excited about Koivula and IMO, he has moved ahead Bellows and Wilde on the prospect list, but he was the youngest player in the AHL last season- I think he needs more time Before being a regular in the lineup - maybe by December or January he is considered for a call up.

Lou is talking about not blocking anyone, but who is he blocking at C- there is no C depth here - Fritz? Jobst? With all respect to Beau- I think he is better suited on the W.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Agreed that I don't expect big acquisition. I think what we learned this offseason is that shaking the stink off the Isles brand is going to take longer than we hoped. It was clear what UFAs we were in on and which ones we needed to help our team, but it's also clear that they just do not want to pick us, yet at least. It will take a culture of winning and commitment from a front office to get that done, and 1 year doesn't make that.

The RFA climate right now and the potentially impending trades as a result of those contracts are interesting, but I still don't have my hopes up. We are in a weird spot. Leddy for some offensive talent definitely makes the most sense, but it is going to depend entirely on what the cost is. I don't think we're in a position to completely mortgage our future because I don't think we are just 1 piece away. Yea we got far last year, but getting swept by the team that got swept by the team that ultimately lost in the finals is still a large leap away, especially for a team that many think overachieved. If we can find a steal of a trade because a team is in cap hell, then I think we see something major. But if that doesn't fall into our laps, I don't expect Lou to make a big trade that gives us high end NHL talent just to make a move because of what we would have to give up in future assets. And he's already learned in one offseason that this is a team that needs to build through the draft and double down on development because (1) that's how the salary cap era works and (2) we can't sign any of the damn UFAs.

The one thing I will disagree with slightly though is I'm a bit more bullish on Varly than others seem to be. Lehner was all the proof I needed. He was just as much of a question mark last year and was a much bigger wild card than Varly. I think it shows that our entire coaching staff can get the most out of a goalie and I also think it shows they know how to scout for a goalie that they think they can make work. Lou has a record of always getting a goalie. The fact that they took one of the biggest goalie question marks in the league and made him a Vezina finalist means I trust their ability to know what they are getting in Varly and know exactly what to fine tune to remove that question mark.

Lou’s only other route is trade. The big fish (rarities) don’t sign here (yet...); it’s his only other option. A savvy GM will make good trades.

Agreed, I wouldn’t give up Dobson or Ilya, which I would imagine most teams would ask for. Simply put, we don’t have enough ‘blue chippers’ to trade that would attract the talent needed in a trade.

Our prospect *depth is very good, that said, most teams are looking for high-end prospects for significant scorers in return; we don’t have enough of them. Trade Dobson, Ilya, even Whalstrom, and the cupboard takes a hard hit. So I understand this may be a challenge in making deals.

As for Varly. I’m hoping Korn/Greco can help him gain consistency.