Speculation: Offseason Thread #13: Running out of title ideas (Mod post #71)

[NYRFAN218]

What time do training camps and whatnot start for the World Cup?

Excited to hear about how our boys are doing.

The training camps for all eight teams are expected to begin Sept. 4-5, with specific details related to each federation to be announced in the coming weeks. Each of the eight teams - Team Canada, Team Czech Republic, Team Europe, Team Finland, Team North America, Team Russia, Team Sweden and Team United States - will play a total of three pre-tournament games. The training camps and pre-tournament games will be held in locations across Europe and North America.

https://www.nhl.com/news/world-cup-of-hockey-pre-tournament-training-camp-schedules/c-793114

 

[Weltschmerz]

Chicago and Toronto have cap issues with Vesey getting MAX bonuses of $2,850,000

Why would he get max bonuses? Hayes had a pretty good rookie season and not sure he hit any bonus.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

I think Miller gets 22 and 29 for 51 points.

#crystalball

 

[TheRedressor]

I believe Hayes did achieve a bonus (assists?) in his rookie season.

 

[pld459666]

I think Miller gets 22 and 29 for 51 points.

#crystalball

I think he's mid 20's on the goals side and mid 20's on the assists as well.

45-55 pts.

I think he gets consistent 2nd line minutes and quite a bit of PP time as well.

Miller - Mika - Zuccs makes for a very interesting 2nd line.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

I think he's mid 20's on the goals side and mid 20's on the assists as well.

45-55 pts.

I think he gets consistent 2nd line minutes and quite a bit of PP time as well.

Miller - Mika - Zuccs makes for a very interesting 2nd line.

It also allows for a first line of Kreider-Stepan-Nash, which looked promising at times, and I like the idea of Kreider and Nash on opposite wings. Two big boys tough to constant and Stepan making smart plays with the puck.

That's a beautiful top 6, but it leaves

Grabner-Hayes-Buchnevich as the 3rd which I'm not sure if that's the most defensively reliable team. However, if they get O-zone starts and possess the puck enough, they'd be fine.

I think that's the way I'd go though. Either that or:

Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Nash Zibanejad Buchnevich
Miller Hayes Grabner
Jooris Lindberg Fast

(When healthy)

I like the idea of the following combos:

Stepan & Kreider

Nash & Zibanejad/Buchnevich
(Just a gut feeling that their games will mesh together, especially Zibanejad and Buch)

Miller & Hayes

 

[eco's bones]

Why would he get max bonuses? Hayes had a pretty good rookie season and not sure he hit any bonus.

Because the Rangers should offer as much as they can to get a player they obviously want very badly?

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

Because the Rangers should offer as much as they can to get a player they obviously want very badly?

Not to mention Vesey wants to hit those bonuses. None of us know how he's going to play in the NHL.

However, I'm thinking he's going to BOS. Just seems like that (gut feeling I guess)

 

[RangerBoy]

Hayes got max bonuses. Those bonuses need to be accounted for in the cap. Teams are allowed to exceed the upper limit by 7.5%. Some of these teams are right up against the $73M cap and their bonuses will exceed the 7.5%. The bonuses may not be reached but they are still included. If the bonuses are reached and there is no room cap space,the bonuses are rolled into the 17-18 cap. The Rangers are not pressed up against the cap and they have no other performance bonuses to worry about. They won't try to manipulate the system so Vesey does not get his bonuses. When the player has no way of earning the bonus,the team calls him up from the minors. Hayes got $900,000 and $2,850,000 in bonuses. $3,750,000 cap hit. Vesey can get $925,000 and $2,850,000. $3,775,000 cap hit.

 

[TheTakedown]

Bingo.

This past year was his first full season, so we won't really be able to have a 100% accurate gauge on him yet.

Will be interesting to watch him next season.

Not to mention the first season where he got consistent top 9 and top 6 time. Prior to that AV utilized him primarily as a bottom 6 forward, typically on the 4th line

 

[silverfish]

Not to mention the first season where he got consistent top 9 and top 6 time. Prior to that AV utilized him primarily as a bottom 6 forward, typically on the 4th line

Miller's top forward teammates in 14-15 (in order of 5v5 ice time):

Hayes
Hagelin
Moore
Stepan
Stempniak

He also averaged roughly 1 minute of 5v4 time on ice per game in 14-15.

Miller's top forward teammates in 13-14 (in order of 5v5 ice time):

Brassard
Pouliot
Hagelin
Boyle
Moore

He also averaged roughly 1 minute of 5v4 time on ice per game in 13-14.

Let's compare this to Etem, a guy who AV actually buried in the lineup..

Moore
Stoll
Glass
Fast
Brassard

EDIT - The purpose of this post isn't to be condescending. I personally just don't buy into the narrative that JT wasn't put in positions to succeed early in his career. It was through no fault but his own that he was yo-yo'd between the leagues.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Not to mention Vesey wants to hit those bonuses. None of us know how he's going to play in the NHL.

However, I'm thinking he's going to BOS. Just seems like that (gut feeling I guess)

IIRC didn't people say the exact same thing about Hayes?

 

[RangerBoy]

Vesey's father would prefer Jimmy does not sign with the Bruins. Kevin Hayes's father was happy Kevin did not sign with the Bruins. Playing home is very difficult.

 

[TheTakedown]

Miller's top forward teammates in 14-15 (in order of 5v5 ice time):

Hayes
Hagelin
Moore
Stepan
Stempniak

He also averaged roughly 1 minute of 5v4 time on ice per game in 14-15.

Miller's top forward teammates in 13-14 (in order of 5v5 ice time):

Brassard
Pouliot
Hagelin
Boyle
Moore

He also averaged roughly 1 minute of 5v4 time on ice per game in 13-14.

Let's compare this to Etem, a guy who AV actually buried in the lineup..

Moore
Stoll
Glass
Fast
Brassard

EDIT - The purpose of this post isn't to be condescending. I personally just don't buy into the narrative that JT wasn't put in positions to succeed early in his career. It was through no fault but his own that he was yo-yo'd between the leagues.

are those guys not bottom 6 players? I recall them being so on this team -_-

The only other thing I'd say is you can't just use pure minutes in Miller's situation. There were games where he would be set for the top 6, and AV would bury him to the 4th line, and Miller would stay there. On a game by game basis, I think that has an effect on a player's performance. It makes sense in just about every real-world situation.

15-16 gave him some more consistent middle and top 6 time, which is what Miller deserved at that point because our team sucked.

I agree with some of your opinions on here, but I think the numbers are being looked at in such raw fashion that the human element is being removed almost completely, which doesn't make sense when we're talking about a human who has feelings (and I am a big advanced stats proponent, so this is not a knock on you or your research which I enjoy reading).

I don't believe we have enough standardized statistics for Millers play to really show us what he is, and though every single stat says he *could* regress, I still think that he also *could* improve in other ways, which could offset certain regressions of his game

 

[silverfish]

are those guys not bottom 6 players? I recall them being so on this team -_-

The only other thing I'd say is you can't just use pure minutes in Miller's situation. There were games where he would be set for the top 6, and AV would bury him to the 4th line, and Miller would stay there. On a game by game basis, I think that has an effect on a player's performance. It makes sense in just about every real-world situation.

15-16 gave him some more consistent middle and top 6 time, which is what Miller deserved at that point because our team sucked.

I agree with some of your opinions on here, but I think the numbers are being looked at in such raw fashion that the human element is being removed almost completely, which doesn't make sense when we're talking about a human who has feelings (and I am a big advanced stats proponent, so this is not a knock on you or your research which I enjoy reading).

I don't believe we have enough standardized statistics for Millers play to really show us what he is, and though every single stat says he *could* regress, I still think that he also *could* improve in other ways, which could offset certain regressions of his game

I was working off of the quote:

Prior to that AV utilized him primarily as a bottom 6 forward, typically on the 4th line

JT was bounced around the lineup, for certain. I think he spent more time on 'line 2' than the 'bottom-6' though.

I'm totally fine with the notion that maybe we don't know who or what JT Miller is. But I also believe that it is more likely he will see some of his stats come down, than I believe his stats staying the same or going up. Not really trying to convince anyone to follow me here, but more or less when I post about this claim, it's so people understand that I have reasoning behind it rather than just hating Miller to hate Miller

 

[Mikos87]

The Miller discussion is interesting. As one of his biggest supporters since he's been drafted, I honestly don't know what to expect out of him next year. The points regarding his shot % are completely valid, it'll be tough for him to hit 20 goals again unless he starts shooting the puck more.

That said, I think we'll see him pick up more assists next year. I've always felt that he was more of a playmaker than a goal scorer. I would hope he can put up around 16 goals and 30+ assists, hopefully pushing 50 points. I would like to see him get a bigger role on the PP as well. If he can score more 5 on 4 he should definitely be able to put up 20 this season.

The Rangers were a very passive team and not really shooting as much as they were going for cutsie plays last year.

Guys like Miller, Fast and Kreider all need to shoot more. Or try shooting more... Helps corsi which means more wins from the denizen narrative here.

 

[Roo Returns]

The Rangers were a very passive team and not really shooting as much as they were going for cutsie plays last year.

Guys like Miller, Fast and Kreider all need to shoot more. Or try shooting more... Helps corsi which means more wins from the denizen narrative here.

A healthy Nash and Zib will start changing the culture as are bringing in guys like Kovacs and Stromwell who shoot.

 

[offdacrossbar]

A healthy Nash and Zib will start changing the culture as are bringing in guys like Kovacs and Stromwell who shoot.

did you watch nash and his shot last season ?

that wet noodle laser beam shot of his isn't going to change much.

his shooting/shot selection last season was a horror show. i have never seen so many wimpy shots right into the goalies chest from bad angles.

rich nash's shot = where goals go to die.

 

[silverfish]

the rangers were a very passive team and not really shooting as much as they were going for cutsie plays last year.

Guys like miller, fast and kreider all need to shoot more. Or try shooting more... Helps corsi which means more wins from the denizen narrative here.

til!

 

[Levitate]

Nash's shot has never been particularly hard, last year wasn't really any different than previous years other than not as accurate and not getting some luck.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

did you watch nash and his shot last season ?

that wet noodle laser beam shot of his isn't going to change much.

his shooting/shot selection last season was a horror show. i have never seen so many wimpy shots right into the goalies chest from bad angles.

rich nash's shot = where goals go to die.

104 of them in 248 games as a Ranger. All dead apparently.


35 goal pace btw.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Nash shot is good because he's one of the rare players that you really don't know if he's going to shoot or make a move.

His shot is also insanely accurate.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

did you watch nash and his shot last season ?

that wet noodle laser beam shot of his isn't going to change much.

his shooting/shot selection last season was a horror show. i have never seen so many wimpy shots right into the goalies chest from bad angles.

rich nash's shot = where goals go to die.

You should suit up and try to stop one of Nash's shots. Bet you won't think its a wet noodle afterwords.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Nash shot is good because he's one of the rare players that you really don't know if he's going to shoot or make a move.

His shot is also insanely accurate.

It's really not.

He scored on 8% of his shots last year. In comparison, Zucc scored on almost 16% of his shots. Tanner Glass scored on 8% of his shots too last season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Ziba met with the media on Friday. He said Hank, McD, G, Staal, Hayes and Miller have reached out to him. He also said that he doesn't know any of the players on the Rangers that well. He said JT Miller is the one he knows the best having played against him for years when he was playing for Sweden and JT for the USA. Mika speaks really good English. Almost no accent and he speaks pretty fast, so you can tell he isn't doing much processing of what to say like you might do when talking in a language you aren't fluent with.

Hayes and McIlrath were doing a clinic for kids on Wednesday. They both seemed to think that losing Yandle from the locker room won't be easy. McIlrath said Yandle had the best nickname for him, he called him "thuggy". Hayes said he's visited Staal in Thunder Bay so far this summer, and this week he's going to be visiting McDonagh and Stepan, probably in Minnesota.