OFFICIAL: 2011 HFNHL Free Agent Results - *** COMPLETE ***

[Vagrant]

The biggest source of problems is indeed from GMs who did not complete their due diligence in reviewing the list of availables and offering their corrections. And i agree, it would be nice to have an updated and validated roster and finances.

Nevertheless, those issues are much in the minority - at this point something like 98% of the list in the free agency post is correct, and that should be more than enough to go on in order to prepare your strategy. It's not like there are franchise-level difference makers lying around without contracts - we're talking about depth guys and marginal prospects at this point. If there's a particular name of interest to you, do a search on the board to see if anyone mentioned them as an exception. Or just put in your bid - worse comes to worst, you don't get the player, as with Carson. Disappointing, perhaps, but unlikely to change the courses of a team positively or negatively.

As an aside, am I the only GM who tracks players I'm interested in who have expiring contracts, and then tick them off when/if they re-sign? I know virtually all my FA offers in a given year before the official list is published...

I agree with the voice of reason, as usual here Doug. And I agree with Dryden that you're the most thorough GM in the league in my estimation.

I think I have enough information to offer some contracts for round two, but if not no big deal. As you mentioned, they're mostly depth players remaining. Getting the UDFA situation straight is much more important at this stage.

 

[Ohio Jones]

I agree with the voice of reason, as usual here Doug. And I agree with Dryden that you're the most thorough GM in the league in my estimation.

Actually, I'm pretty sure there are at least a few GMs who are more thorough than I am, and dead certain of it when it comes to draft scouting. But I'll settle for "top third".

Glad to see reason carry the day.

 

[Wildman]

I agree with the voice of reason, as usual here Doug. And I agree with Dryden that you're the most thorough GM in the league in my estimation.

I think I have enough information to offer some contracts for round two, but if not no big deal. As you mentioned, they're mostly depth players remaining. Getting the UDFA situation straight is much more important at this stage.

Josh, you have no idea how much work it takes to organize 30 free agency submission and priority list. I feel both Jon and Matt have done a great job and we should appreciate their time and dedication towards this league.

As for your round two available list, all you need to do is take the excel list from Yahoo and delete all the 1st round signing and 2nd round bidding. The left over from the list are players available for bidding.

 

[Vagrant]

Josh, you have no idea how much work it takes to organize 30 free agency submission and priority list. I feel both Jon and Matt have done a great job and we should appreciate their time and dedication towards this league.

This is the type of characterization that is tremendously unfair. Recommending an extended period of time to digest the volume of work that was done in the name of accuracy does not inherently diminish appreciation for the work already completed. My recommendation was that we compile our current data, update the signings as well as the UDFA lotteries that were and still are incorrectly represented, prior to starting the second round of bidding and further complicating a matter that is already complex. There are several instances of players missing from the master list of UDFA signings as well as teams that are not in on lottery draws where they should be. These issues as well as likely 20+ more second round offers coming down the pipes in the next twenty four hours. Why does it not make sense to push the work load back a few paces prior to proceeding? Why does that sentiment make me unappreciative?

I think it goes without saying in many cases that the members of this league appreciate the hell out of these guys for doing what they've done. I look forward to being able to serve the league in a similar capacity once I have proven my ability to handle such a task.

 

[Hossa]

As an aside, am I the only GM who tracks players I'm interested in who have expiring contracts, and then tick them off when/if they re-sign? I know virtually all my FA offers in a given year before the official list is published...

I don't go quite that far, although if I have a specific need (eg. backup goalie this year) I start tracking candidates early. This is one of the reasons I've been pushing our contract blog, because like the trade blog, it would give us a searcheable database of all contract signings as they happen throughout the year.

Anyways, I don't think we can expect the full roster page to be updated before round 2, nor do GMs need it. All the information the sim gods have is available to us here, and it's on the other 28 GMs to sort through it themselves. We'll sort through the missing updates later in the summer, but GMs have the responsibility to know their own roster situation. I mean I hate Excel as much as the next guy, but it's great to have my own roster file.

All the information we need is available, whether on the current roster page, or one of the FA threads on the board. Everybody, including the sim gods, are working from the same general info.

 

[SPG]

No worries Drew. I'm mad. I'll get over it. But as long as I'm in this league I will never let one rule slide.

I agree. I'm extremely disappointed.

 

[HFNHL Commish]

I agree. I'm extremely disappointed.

I can understand that.

However, one look at the rather long list of ineligible UDFAs who received bids tells you how convoluted this process can be, especially given that a lot of these players are virtual unknowns to most people. It's one thing when you're talking about 20 people bidding on Stephane Da Costa (or Fabian Brunnstrom, and look how awesome that worked out!). It's another when you're bidding on Roman Derlyuk or one of two guys named Jarkko Immonen.

Links referencing UDFA eligibility have been explicitly requested in years past...this is the first year that it was spelled out as a requirement. While it may seem harsh to have your offers voided over a technicality, turn the issue on its head. If 15 guys were bidding on Player X, and 14 of the 15 guys submitted their bids properly, is there really that much of a question of eliminating the 15th guy from bidding? This is what it starts to come down to when EVERY UDFA receives a max bid.

 

[Dryden]

It gets even funnier when the accepted bids have players who are voided. Why are they not fined for not checking if players are on other teams then? What they get is a little slap on the wrist saying "oh thats void because he's on a team already."

I just checked my bids from last year and they had links. Cool so I accept that penalty. But if making bids on UDFA requires links then why does it not also require that GM's also look to see if players are already drafted? If the purpose of the links is to confirm that a player is eligible and make the agents job easier wouldn't it also make sense to know that the player is also not already taken?

14 players were given offers that were on teams. All they get is a slap on the wrist. Then why aren't I or Sean or whomever given the same slap on the wrist and said ok you didn't do the right thing either but in the future we want this and only this?

that's the last comment you'll here from me on this.

 

[SPG]

It gets even funnier when the accepted bids have players who are voided. Why are they not fined for not checking if players are on other teams then? What they get is a little slap on the wrist saying "oh thats void because he's on a team already."

I just checked my bids from last year and they had links. Cool so I accept that penalty. But if making bids on UDFA requires links then why does it not also require that GM's also look to see if players are already drafted? If the purpose of the links is to confirm that a player is eligible and make the agents job easier wouldn't it also make sense to know that the player is also not already taken?

14 players were given offers that were on teams. All they get is a slap on the wrist. Then why aren't I or Sean or whomever given the same slap on the wrist and said ok you didn't do the right thing either but in the future we want this and only this?

that's the last comment you'll here from me on this.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not going to argue, because it is clearly stated that it is a requirement to provide links, but the "slap on the wrist" to those who provided links but made offers to players that were not available as opposed to a complete void of offers without links seems skewed to me. When I sent my offers, I didn't have the time to go through and provide links. If I went through and did that, I wouldn't have had the time to get any offers submitted. I clearly acknowledged that I would make the time after the first deadline to provide them if it was absolutely needed and got no response back.

What should have been done (and clearly my opinion doesn't mean **** on the matter, even as an Admin member) is giving the teams who didn't provide links a chance to send them before the lottery and fining them $1M or a draft pick or something, especially since this is a brand new rule.

That's the last you'll hear from me on this, out of respect for those who have worked so hard on FA. I truly do appreciare the efforts of those directly involved in FA process (Matt, Josh, agents) In the meantime, please remove me from the HFNHL Admin group. My presence there doesn't mean anything anyway.

 

[The old geezer]

14 players were given offers that were on teams. All they get is a slap on the wrist. Then why aren't I or Sean or whomever given the same slap on the wrist and said ok you didn't do the right thing either but in the future we want this and only this?

My first reaction was I agree with you Dryden ... and that's even with me having one of the voided offers. Challenge is I then looked at the examples and realized fault is not that clear in these cases making execution a problem.
By that I mean in some cases you have guys like Brett Carson whom was not identified by the GM as being his property and somewhere there had to be a mixup on him even being on the list. In other cases it's name misspellings on the web pages (I.e Emelin/Yemelin) that can cause mistakes, same has happened for our drafts, and then you do have cases where it may just have been the bidding GM not doing their part to check.

So in short I agree in principal but realize the execution/circumstances on when it should be applied and to whom would be difficult to sort out.

 

[MatthewFlames]

. My recommendation was that we compile our current data, update the signings

1) The second round of Bidding has NOT started nor is there a deadline for 2nd round bids. The deadline of today, which isn't gonna move, is for RFA offer sheet matching, and further bids listed in the first post in this thread. We don't need a longer deadline for people to look at which players they are still in for and decide to up the offer or not.

2) Any offers for players not listed in the first post as requiring second bids will not be accepted until we've completed the first round and updates are done. Which is the same as we've done every year.

3) Oddly, Jon and I have actual real lives and updates come when they come. I don't feel as strongly as some others that we're receiving overly harsh critism and I know Josh well enough to not read into his posts (and also understanding that you can't really tell people's emotional intent in txt and emails...).

Regardless, FA is a mess. The whole process is messy and convoluted. So mistakes happen, especially when we're racing to get results out as fast as possible, and when as has been pointed out, a lot of GM's only show up after the process has begun to point out errors. I dont have a problem with that, as they too have time contraints. Also, some of the GM's who kept pushing for us to hurry up and publish the results are the same ones complaining now that there are mistakes....

In the end it will all get fixed. (those UDFA offers pretty soon... Somehow I buggered up the file...)

4) Thank you for your support GM's..... We're doing the best we can!

 

[MatthewFlames]

That's the last you'll hear from me on this, out of respect for those who have worked so hard on FA. I truly do appreciare the efforts of those directly involved in FA process (Matt, Josh, agents) In the meantime, please remove me from the HFNHL Admin group. My presence there doesn't mean anything anyway.

Thanks Sean. It's a sticky situation to be sure. But to say that your voice means nothing in the admin group is disrespectful to those who are arguing your case there and who have a tremendous amount of respect for you (which in my opinion is everyone in the admin) - you've obviously contributed huge amounts to this league, not just as one of the stronger GM's but as an admin. And to add to that, out of respect to all those who didn't submit links, and mostly to you and the Nick, I asked the admin for an opinion on the matter, but you never responded (though that's probably because of your schedule), and we went with the consensus on the issue.

And to others who are saying that this is a new rule, it is NOT. It's the same rule that was in place last year, and has been there every year. Last year I think there was one team who didn't submit links and they got away with it. This year there was a 400% increase and lemme tell you, the UDFA process is a nightmare. We've got to validate every player, fix/locate the spelling errors, check contracts, double/triple check if they're on the rosters. It took me close to 6 or 7 hours to do it.

So if GM's have the time to research and find the players, look up their ages, check if they're in rosters, they certainly have enough time to cut and paste one of those research links.

 

[SPG]

Thanks Sean. It's a sticky situation to be sure. But to say that your voice means nothing in the admin group is disrespectful to those who are arguing your case there and who have a tremendous amount of respect for you (which in my opinion is everyone in the admin) - you've obviously contributed huge amounts to this league, not just as one of the stronger GM's but as an admin. And to add to that, out of respect to all those who didn't submit links, and mostly to you and the Nick, I asked the admin for an opinion on the matter, but you never responded (though that's probably because of your schedule), and we went with the consensus on the issue.

And to others who are saying that this is a new rule, it is NOT. It's the same rule that was in place last year, and has been there every year. Last year I think there was one team who didn't submit links and they got away with it. This year there was a 400% increase and lemme tell you, the UDFA process is a nightmare. We've got to validate every player, fix/locate the spelling errors, check contracts, double/triple check if they're on the rosters. It took me close to 6 or 7 hours to do it.

So if GM's have the time to research and find the players, look up their ages, check if they're in rosters, they certainly have enough time to cut and paste one of those research links.

Re: me not responding: It's tough for me to respond when these discussions take place on the weekends in summer.

Re: the tedious task of going through the UDFA process. I completely understand that. Many people may not remember (or may have conveniently chosen to forget), but I used to be heavily involved in a lot of the pain in the ass sim-side tasks so I understand and appreciate what it takes to make that happen, especially in a timely manner when you have GMs up your ass looking for info.

As I've said from the beginning, rules are rules. That is cut and dry. I just think it was very poorly handled and I stand by that.

 

[MatthewFlames]

The Sens are missing from the Cam Atkinson and Harry Zolnierczyk sweepstakes. Also we did not offer Zach Redmond a deal, please remove us from him.

You spelt both Cam and Harry's names wrong. So the xls didn't pick it up.

Redmond signs with Montreal.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Jon and Matt - excellent job so far. Thank you.

One request for clarification:
"Josh Manson VOID Ineligible due to age (born after Sept 15, 1991)"

I am guilty of missing this in the original thread but ask why the date. He is no longer draft eligible, NA eligibility will be 01/01/92 to 9/15/94 next year so not being draft eligible anymore he should be a UDFA.

Upon further reflection this rule is probably written incorrectly. It's one we've been carrying for several seasons - but the date is wrong and should be 12/31/91. Lets discuss in admin and see what we do about this situation....

 

[MatthewFlames]

Raphael Diaz VOID Property of VAN ...
FYI ... property of PIT

Are you sure? I looked at your roster and it does look suspiciously like the Canucks roster

 

[kasper11]

1) The second round of Bidding has NOT started nor is there a deadline for 2nd round bids. The deadline of today, which isn't gonna move, is for RFA offer sheet matching, and further bids listed in the first post in this thread. We don't need a longer deadline for people to look at which players they are still in for and decide to up the offer or not.

Matt ---

I thought you had said earlier that both were being done at the same time. Can you just delete the bids I made on additional players? I won't have time to update and resend before 7pm.

 

[MatthewFlames]

I think Washington's contracts got lost somewhere after the first few UDFA offers. Going by my numbers, we should have signed the following players:
!

Yes, there was a list of UDFAs' on my master sheet that didn't have offers next to them and I wondered why the players were added to the list but had no offers next to them. Fixed....

Justin Krueger
Kyle Medvec
Chase Polacek

Did anyone else bid on these players? Please double check for me GM's.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Matt ---

I thought you had said earlier that both were being done at the same time. Can you just delete the bids I made on additional players? I won't have time to update and resend before 7pm.

I did?

 

[The old geezer]

I did?

Yep, or at least I had interpreted one of your posts that way as well.

I've fixed my submissions accordingly and just resent it.

 

[kasper11]

Question....

Are bids on unsigned players due on Saturday along with the second round bids, or are those going to be handled separately?

We're gonna handle them all together. The deadline is going to change - everyone will get an extension to Monday most likely.

I did?

Yup, you did
No big deal, just please disregard my offers that don't pertain to Jokinen.

 

[Ohio Jones]

Yup, you did
No big deal, just please disregard my offers that don't pertain to Jokinen.

This is a problem of nomenclature, I believe - and one we seem to run into almost every year. I think Matthew's comment was referring to "Part 2" of the bidding on both signed and UDFA players who received bids in Round 1, as opposed to "Round 2" of free agency, which is bids on players who did not receive any bids in Round 1.

 

[Wildman]

Yep, or at least I had interpreted one of your posts that way as well.

I've fixed my submissions accordingly and just resent it.

I had couple of additional offers as well. Please ignore them as I won't be able to change it at work. I can resend you in the evening if it okay with you.

 

[MatthewFlames]

This is a problem of nomenclature, I believe - and one we seem to run into almost every year. I think Matthew's comment was referring to "Part 2" of the bidding on both signed and UDFA players who received bids in Round 1, as opposed to "Round 2" of free agency, which is bids on players who did not receive any bids in Round 1.

This.

But yes, easy to interpret the way everyone has. Part 2 now. Round 2 later.

 

[MatthewFlames]

I had couple of additional offers as well. Please ignore them as I won't be able to change it at work. I can resend you in the evening if it okay with you.

No worries. I will ignore those bids and start a new thread when "part 2" is done.