Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season discussion: Two signings. Rinse, Repeat add 1.

[TheBeastCoast]

Mitch White with a casual 98 on the gun.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Soto and Judge back to back gonna be so frustrating to face. So annoying.

 

[Bjindaho]

Mechanical change last year led to some extra juice

 

[canucksfan]

He’s nibbling too much

 

[Discoverer]

He’s nibbling too much

Hard to blame him against Soto and Judge. Just don't do it against the rest of the lineup.

 

[The Nemesis]

Lol that they talk about Soto like a sure fire HOFer, but then bring up Mike Trout like "he could make it if he stays on this path." Like... Trout could retire today and probably make the HOF, idiots.

 

[Bjindaho]

Some beautiful pitches, but the sequencing could use work and that pitch to Judge needs to simply not be thrown.

 

[The Nemesis]

Talking up Luke Weaver as their "6th pitcher" and how great his super wide arsenal of like 6 or 7 pitches and that's great.

Bro started 25 games and had an ERA close to 7 last season.

 

[The Nemesis]

Don Mattingly's beard is the most this broadcast has talked about anything Blue Jays all game long.

 

[The Nemesis]

Gold gloves are a joke! Gold gloves at 1st are especially a joke! It's not that hard, Yankees broadcasters!

 

[canucksfan]

Orelvis is having some nice at bats

 

[The Nemesis]

To further the Mattingly/Mauer thing:

I'm not even sure how they're arguing that the two guys are the same beyond "were really good, didn't play as long as they should've."

Accolades:
Mauer: MVP, 6x All-Star, 3x Gold Glove (all as C), 5x Silver Slugger, 3x Batting Title, 0 World Series
Mattingly: MVP, 6x All-Star, 9x Gold Glove (all as 1B), 5x Silver Slugger, 1x Batting Title, 0 World Series

Career stats:
Mauer: 7960 PA, .306 avg/.380 obp/.827 ops, 143 HRs, 923 RBIs, 11.8% BB, 13% K, 123 wRC+, 53 fWAR
Mattingly: 7721 PA, .307 avg/.358 obp/.830 ops, 222 HRs, 1099 RBIs, 7.6% BB, 5.8% K, 124 wRC+, 40.7 fWAR

I love Don Mattingly. Even when he doesn't fix his sideburns. But if we're arguing that Joe Mauer is somewhat of a borderline HOF because of his kneecapped longevity then Mattingly is a borderline not-HOFer given that

a) Their accolades for their respective careers are relatively close with his advantage being the comparatively dumb gold gloves (at the least valuable defensive position compared to Mauer's at one of the most difficult/valuable) and his disadvantage being the fewer batting titles (which, again, Mauer won while playing a high value defensive position not known for its offensive output.

b) their slash lines are somewhat similar with Mauer having a notable OBP advantage while Mattingly having a similar SLG advantage (which I didn't list because I did show OPS)

c) Mattingly's big advantage statistically is in his power #s, which would've in no small part been helped by Yankee Stadium playing to lefty hittiers while Mauer spent most of his career in the cavern of Target Field

d) Mauer has significant WAR advantage in no small part to being an elite defender at a premium position.

Again, no disrespect to Mattingly. He was a great hitter and an excellent player. But he's not quite on Mauer's level and that means he's also not quite a hall-of-famer.

 

[The Nemesis]

Weird to see Jordan Groshans on the Yankees as a struggling org depth guy here to fill out the numbers and maybe show he could be a call-up. I remember all the hype.

 

[The Nemesis]

Do we still drink for a Derek Jeter reference even though it's not Buck?

 

[Dr.Funk]

I’m not sure if we are spoiled or just used to our broadcast, but these guys are beyond bad

Well Dan Shulman is one of the best play by play guys in the business in any sport.

Buck stinks but Joe Sidall is pretty good.

 

[The Nemesis]

I know technically we don't have to replace threads anymore, but maybe we should refresh this thread going into the next week now that games have started. It would seem less daunting that way.

 

[The Nemesis]

lol at them pumping up Lombard. He's their Pipeline #8 prospect like he's a huge deal.

Do you know who Pipeline has as the Jays' #8 prospect?

Landen Maroudis.

Who?

Exactly!

 

[GoonieFace]

Well Dan Shulman is one of the best play by play guys in the business in any sport.

Buck stinks but Joe Sidall is pretty good.

I like the sound of Bucks voice, he’s a little senile, but still. Reminds me of Bob Cole near the end

 

[Canada4Gold]

What's the difference between player opt out and player options? As an example lets say an evenly distributed 4 year contract for 100 million with an opt out after each year. Instead you do a 1 year contract for 25 million with 3 player options at 25 million each. Isn't it the exact same thing? Player options have been a thing for a long time but opt outs seem fairly new within the last 5 years or so when you could just do the same thing using player options.

 

[MS]

Lol that they talk about Soto like a sure fire HOFer, but then bring up Mike Trout like "he could make it if he stays on this path." Like... Trout could retire today and probably make the HOF, idiots.

Trout could have retired 5 years ago and still made the BHOF. He was already on the borderline when he put up nearly 50 WAR in his first 5 MLB seasons.

To further the Mattingly/Mauer thing:

I'm not even sure how they're arguing that the two guys are the same beyond "were really good, didn't play as long as they should've."

Accolades:
Mauer: MVP, 6x All-Star, 3x Gold Glove (all as C), 5x Silver Slugger, 3x Batting Title, 0 World Series
Mattingly: MVP, 6x All-Star, 9x Gold Glove (all as 1B), 5x Silver Slugger, 1x Batting Title, 0 World Series

Career stats:
Mauer: 7960 PA, .306 avg/.380 obp/.827 ops, 143 HRs, 923 RBIs, 11.8% BB, 13% K, 123 wRC+, 53 fWAR
Mattingly: 7721 PA, .307 avg/.358 obp/.830 ops, 222 HRs, 1099 RBIs, 7.6% BB, 5.8% K, 124 wRC+, 40.7 fWAR

I love Don Mattingly. Even when he doesn't fix his sideburns. But if we're arguing that Joe Mauer is somewhat of a borderline HOF because of his kneecapped longevity then Mattingly is a borderline not-HOFer given that

a) Their accolades for their respective careers are relatively close with his advantage being the comparatively dumb gold gloves (at the least valuable defensive position compared to Mauer's at one of the most difficult/valuable) and his disadvantage being the fewer batting titles (which, again, Mauer won while playing a high value defensive position not known for its offensive output.

b) their slash lines are somewhat similar with Mauer having a notable OBP advantage while Mattingly having a similar SLG advantage (which I didn't list because I did show OPS)

c) Mattingly's big advantage statistically is in his power #s, which would've in no small part been helped by Yankee Stadium playing to lefty hittiers while Mauer spent most of his career in the cavern of Target Field

d) Mauer has significant WAR advantage in no small part to being an elite defender at a premium position.

Again, no disrespect to Mattingly. He was a great hitter and an excellent player. But he's not quite on Mauer's level and that means he's also not quite a hall-of-famer.

Very similar hitters but one guy was a C and the other a 1B which makes all the difference.

 

[The Nemesis]

What's the difference between player opt out and player options? As an example lets say an evenly distributed 4 year contract for 100 million with an opt out after each year. Instead you do a 1 year contract for 25 million with 3 player options at 25 million each. Isn't it the exact same thing? Player options have been a thing for a long time but opt outs seem fairly new within the last 5 years or so when you could just do the same thing using player options.

I imagine there's some different legal wrangling and interactions with payroll tax thresholds and whatever inherent in a deal that is for X years with opt-outs vs a deal that is for Y years with option years that add up to X.

Like obviously not the same case since MLB doesn't have an NHL style cap setup, but I imagine that if you had a contract that was for $100m over 4 years with 3 opt-outs the AAV would be $25m even if the salary by year was $50m/20m/20m/10m, but if you had a deal that was like a $50m/1yr contract with 3 options progressively worth $20m/$20m/$10m the AAV on that deal for the first year at least would be $50m because options default to a state of not existing unless they are picked up whereas opt-outs default to a state of being part of the contract unless/until the necessary party voids them.

 

[canucksfan]

I wonder if Richards struggles will the team get rid of him? Cooke looked very good. Obviously one outing but I can see Richards faltering due to his lack of command and low FB velocity.

Saw a tweet showing Rodon's stuff today was quite bad.

 

[Bjindaho]

For tax purposes, a player option is assumed to be declined, whereas an opt-out is assumed that the player won't exercise it.

Say you signed Vlad to 25, 30, 30, 30, 30, 25, 25, 25 with an opt out after 3 (as an example), he'd count as 27.5 for luxury tax. At 3 plus options, he'd be 28.3M per.

I wonder if Richards struggles will the team get rid of him? Cooke looked very good. Obviously one outing but I can see Richards faltering due to his lack of command and low FB velocity.

Saw a tweet showing Rodon's stuff today was quite bad.

It was. Velo down, and his pitches were similar shapes.

 

[Nineteen67]

I’m not sure if we are spoiled or just used to our broadcast, but these guys are beyond bad

I tried listening on the radio today and the Jays may as well quit doing radio broadcasts. Ben is worse than his dad. No enthusiasm and as monotone as John Tavares.

 

[canucksfan]

Not sure how accurate this is but interesting to see Francis up there