Observations XV

[Scoresberg]

And that year they missed by 3 points after Rinne was out for 4 months of the season. To mean that is incredible. I would have expected to have missed by 10-20 points given our goalie situation. Trotz did an amazing job coming as close as he did.

Now to the point at hand, I don't think that Lavy would go, but I could see it as the writing on the wall for Poile. He has built a mediocre team again, a team that was expected to be a big contender. He has proven after 30+ years that he does not know how to truly build a contender.

I think it's absurd that you blame Poile, NOW, of all the moments. Yes, this was a mediocre/average team for multiple years, but now it isn't.

We have a former elite goalie and a young up and coming #1G in the net. That should be enough.

We have top-3 defense in the league with a very solid top-4 and basically two #1D's. If I wanted something more from our defense, it's a veteran presence which we should acquire from FA.

We have a legit #1C, and two 30-goal scorers. We have young talent in the lineup (Arvidsson, Fiala) mixed up with some older veterans (Fisher, McLeod, Fiddler). Our depth players (Wilson, Smith, Jarnkrok, Parenteau) are decent, they should be more consistent but they are about league average.

So, I think, Poile has given a really good team on paper for Lavy and the co. to work with but they haven't found a way to glue it together.

Now, if we go and get Duchene, Johnson or J. Staal in the summer and basically keep the rest of the roster intact and lose Jarny, Smith or Wilson to LV and we STILL can't find a way to be a legit contender, then I'd give Lavy the boot.

But, I absolutely place NO blame on Poile whatsoever on our struggles. He can't get the team to defend like an NHL team. Lavy can. And should.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

That former elite goalie is now one of the worst starters in the league. You can bury your head in the sand and blame the system or the defense if you want, but the main problem is 35.

 

[Scoresberg]

That former elite goalie is now one of the worst starters in the league. You can bury your head in the sand and blame the system or the defense if you want, but the main problem is 35.

We clearly don't see eye-to-eye on this subject.

 

[Byrddog]

I think it's absurd that you blame Poile, NOW, of all the moments. Yes, this was a mediocre/average team for multiple years, but now it isn't.

We have a former elite goalie and a young up and coming #1G in the net. That should be enough.

We have top-3 defense in the league with a very solid top-4 and basically two #1D's. If I wanted something more from our defense, it's a veteran presence which we should acquire from FA.

We have a legit #1C, and two 30-goal scorers. We have young talent in the lineup (Arvidsson, Fiala) mixed up with some older veterans (Fisher, McLeod, Fiddler). Our depth players (Wilson, Smith, Jarnkrok, Parenteau) are decent, they should be more consistent but they are about league average.

So, I think, Poile has given a really good team on paper for Lavy and the co. to work with but they haven't found a way to glue it together.

Now, if we go and get Duchene, Johnson or J. Staal in the summer and basically keep the rest of the roster intact and lose Jarny, Smith or Wilson to LV and we STILL can't find a way to be a legit contender, then I'd give Lavy the boot.

But, I absolutely place NO blame on Poile whatsoever on our struggles. He can't get the team to defend like an NHL team. Lavy can. And should.

You are a little off on some of your evaluations

1 There will be one 30 goal guy on the team I assume you point to Neal as the other 30 goal guy (Proven) Well hes not there this season and as long as he continues to be buried in the depth it is not likely he will return as a 30 goal guy(he must have a decent center to feed him) Your Assumption that Poile will land Duchene or Staal hold no water Poile does not have the players to entice either team to trade thoise guys here. Theres a real chance that Fiala is busting right in front of you. Every time he is sent down he comes back plays well and scores for a game or two and is gone. Why his talent alone has not scored more is confusing he has talent but hes not in the plans for top 6 at this point.

A few facts about this defense unless there is a coaching change this is not a top 3 D in the league yes people say that but over the last two years there numbers do not prove it. Right now the team is 12th in goals allowed- 17 in GA/GP- 15 on the PK- 15 in shots allowed. Now one can add value to the D's scoring ability but they are no better than top 10 there either. Now could they be one of the top defenses in the league yes with the right coaching sure nuff could but for the last two years they have not been on the ice where it counts.

You much overvalue all that is Pred the bottom 6 are smoking garbage secondary scoring is worse than inconsistent for long periods its down right missing.

You are also oblivious to how close this team is to missing the playoffs all together. This California trip most likely is the determining factor. If they get two wins one of them over the Kings then yes they will slide in as the last wildcard. But if the Kings beat them there in deep trouble. The kings have two goalies now far superior to Budja and you can not rule them out of a 6 or 7 game win streak which burys this team.

I can see how you can hope for the best but remember this team has had 1 four game winning streak and if they return from the west coast trip with 2 points with only 14 to go needing 95 points to safely make it in well its hard to see that happening 20 points in 14 games is a tall hill for this team.

 

[drwpreds]

I think it's absurd that you blame Poile, NOW, of all the moments. Yes, this was a mediocre/average team for multiple years, but now it isn't.

We have a former elite goalie and a young up and coming #1G in the net. That should be enough.

We have top-3 defense in the league with a very solid top-4 and basically two #1D's. If I wanted something more from our defense, it's a veteran presence which we should acquire from FA.

We have a legit #1C, and two 30-goal scorers. We have young talent in the lineup (Arvidsson, Fiala) mixed up with some older veterans (Fisher, McLeod, Fiddler). Our depth players (Wilson, Smith, Jarnkrok, Parenteau) are decent, they should be more consistent but they are about league average.

So, I think, Poile has given a really good team on paper for Lavy and the co. to work with but they haven't found a way to glue it together.

Now, if we go and get Duchene, Johnson or J. Staal in the summer and basically keep the rest of the roster intact and lose Jarny, Smith or Wilson to LV and we STILL can't find a way to be a legit contender, then I'd give Lavy the boot.

But, I absolutely place NO blame on Poile whatsoever on our struggles. He can't get the team to defend like an NHL team. Lavy can. And should.

Agree with all of that- this has been a disappointing season, no arguments there. But we are a talented team and the future looks very bright- window for us to contend is just opening and should be there for the next several years.

Now, if we are sitting here a year or two years from now still just sneaking into the playoffs as a wild card, then it will be time for heads to roll........

 

[drwpreds]

You are also oblivious to how close this team is to missing the playoffs all together. This California trip most likely is the determining factor. If they get two wins one of them over the Kings then yes they will slide in as the last wildcard. But if the Kings beat them there in deep trouble. The kings have two goalies now far superior to Budja and you can not rule them out of a 6 or 7 game win streak which burys this team. .

No one is oblivious to anything, come on man. And I always love how people talk in such absolutes- "this game tonight determines our playoff fate!!!"

So you are saying if we go just 1-2 on this trip, that means we are definitely not making the playoffs??? That we HAVE to go 2-1 and beat LA to get in? You don't know that- NO ONE knows if that will be the case. Even if we go 0-3 we will still likely be in control of our fate.

And I also love how the same people who always trash the Preds will also sing the praises of teams below us- teams that we have been better than all season long. (LA is going to catch us, Winnipeg is red hot, etc, etc).

 

[Scoresberg]

You are a little off on some of your evaluations

1 There will be one 30 goal guy on the team I assume you point to Neal as the other 30 goal guy (Proven) Well hes not there this season and as long as he continues to be buried in the depth it is not likely he will return as a 30 goal guy(he must have a decent center to feed him) Your Assumption that Poile will land Duchene or Staal hold no water Poile does not have the players to entice either team to trade thoise guys here. Theres a real chance that Fiala is busting right in front of you. Every time he is sent down he comes back plays well and scores for a game or two and is gone. Why his talent alone has not scored more is confusing he has talent but hes not in the plans for top 6 at this point.

A few facts about this defense unless there is a coaching change this is not a top 3 D in the league yes people say that but over the last two years there numbers do not prove it. Right now the team is 12th in goals allowed- 17 in GA/GP- 15 on the PK- 15 in shots allowed. Now one can add value to the D's scoring ability but they are no better than top 10 there either. Now could they be one of the top defenses in the league yes with the right coaching sure nuff could but for the last two years they have not been on the ice where it counts.

You much overvalue all that is Pred the bottom 6 are smoking garbage secondary scoring is worse than inconsistent for long periods its down right missing.

You are also oblivious to how close this team is to missing the playoffs all together. This California trip most likely is the determining factor. If they get two wins one of them over the Kings then yes they will slide in as the last wildcard. But if the Kings beat them there in deep trouble. The kings have two goalies now far superior to Budja and you can not rule them out of a 6 or 7 game win streak which burys this team.

I can see how you can hope for the best but remember this team has had 1 four game winning streak and if they return from the west coast trip with 2 points with only 14 to go needing 95 points to safely make it in well its hard to see that happening 20 points in 14 games is a tall hill for this team.

This is on the team defense and the fall off Rinne. Our D's, especially in 2017, have been good invidually and on pairs. Our forwards have been bad defensively, and that's on the system.

Maybe Fiala busts, maybe not. But he can be used as a trading chip, if needed he still has value. I still think he'll break through. Time will tell.

I'm not arguing that this team is a lock for playoffs. But with this team, on paper, it SHOULD be. Lavy isn't getting the best out of them.

Not worried about Neal. The guy has shown that he can score, and he will. He's contributed in other ways this season, even though he hasn't scored.

 

[Byrddog]

This is on the team defense and the fall off Rinne. Our D's, especially in 2017, have been good invidually and on pairs. Our forwards have been bad defensively, and that's on the system.

Maybe Fiala busts, maybe not. But he can be used as a trading chip, if needed he still has value. I still think he'll break through. Time will tell.

I'm not arguing that this team is a lock for playoffs. But with this team, on paper, it SHOULD be. Lavy isn't getting the best out of them.

Not worried about Neal. The guy has shown that he can score, and he will. He's contributed in other ways this season, even though he hasn't scored.

The reason Lavi is not getting the best out of the entire team is the exact reason I said he was not the right guy when Trotz walked. You can not take a polar opposite team like Trotz had and turn it into the high flying O paced team that Lavi needs to succeed. Poile has piece meal added parts but not enough to put them over the top when considering the additional scoring given up.

I would point you most of the other posters here that have pointed out the number of oddman rushed allowed over the last couple years sure Rinne has had issues stopping them like he once did, but is that really a suprise REALLY two years ago we talked about his and Webers window closing and it is closing what a suprise. But that does not in any way excuse the oddman rushes breakaways that have brought this team to its knees.

A team usually looks better on paper but when the parts are not working together offense or defense the result is more often failure. What is even more frustrating is when one area improves another tanks. With 17 games to go some teams are making a move Calgary for one St Louis will be another there schedule is so weak how can they not.

So yeah Poile has to be blamed at this point because he has not provided his coach what he has needed. Rather he put his eggs in the kids basket and that blew up. And a lil heads up Sarro's is not near as good as most here think. he has proved NOTHING NOTHING. So go9altending is now a huge issue.

 

[Drake744]

The reason Lavi is not getting the best out of the entire team is the exact reason I said he was not the right guy when Trotz walked. You can not take a polar opposite team like Trotz had and turn it into the high flying O paced team that Lavi needs to succeed. Poile has piece meal added parts but not enough to put them over the top when considering the additional scoring given up.

I would point you most of the other posters here that have pointed out the number of oddman rushed allowed over the last couple years sure Rinne has had issues stopping them like he once did, but is that really a suprise REALLY two years ago we talked about his and Webers window closing and it is closing what a suprise. But that does not in any way excuse the oddman rushes breakaways that have brought this team to its knees.

A team usually looks better on paper but when the parts are not working together offense or defense the result is more often failure. What is even more frustrating is when one area improves another tanks. With 17 games to go some teams are making a move Calgary for one St Louis will be another there schedule is so weak how can they not.

So yeah Poile has to be blamed at this point because he has not provided his coach what he has needed. Rather he put his eggs in the kids basket and that blew up. And a lil heads up Sarro's is not near as good as most here think. he has proved NOTHING NOTHING. So go9altending is now a huge issue.

Saying this as a fact is just wrong on all counts. Maybe he ends up not being the guy for the next 5 or 7 years, but to factually say that he's proven nothing and to know right now at 21 when doing nothing but own the AHL whenever he's there is misguided. While you may see nothing to prove that he's that good, what has anyone seen to prove that he won't be?

 

[Byrddog]

Saying this as a fact is just wrong on all counts. Maybe he ends up not being the guy for the next 5 or 7 years, but to factually say that he's proven nothing and to know right now at 21 when doing nothing but own the AHL whenever he's there is misguided. While you may see nothing to prove that he's that good, what has anyone seen to prove that he won't be?

What exactly has he done to win a job? 53 games in the AHL where he did well 17 games in the NHL where he has won 7 games he has a respectable .923 save %. The eye test is wrong more than it is right and thats basically the mantra with Sarro's. And what you say is exactly right there is no proof either way yet to tell if he has the ability to replace Rinne. But historically goalies do not hit stride until 24 or 25 the kid is young and this team has done him no favors allowing him time in the AHL. Out of necessity he is thrown in the deep end to sink or swim. I have seen alot of things in him that are great but handing the team over to him now is a disaster for him and the team and this includes next year as well. Sure Maz was and is terrible but why take the chance to ruin Sarro's because MAz is terrible and Poile is is too damn stubborn to admit it was not a mistake to find a back-up in the last off season. Thats my biggest issue with Poile he just half ***** the roster 2'3 centers will still be an issue next year the Rinne Sarro's bus will roll on.

 

[Drake744]

What exactly has he done to win a job? 53 games in the AHL where he did well 17 games in the NHL where he has won 7 games he has a respectable .923 save %. The eye test is wrong more than it is right and thats basically the mantra with Sarro's. And what you say is exactly right there is no proof either way yet to tell if he has the ability to replace Rinne. But historically goalies do not hit stride until 24 or 25 the kid is young and this team has done him no favors allowing him time in the AHL. Out of necessity he is thrown in the deep end to sink or swim. I have seen alot of things in him that are great but handing the team over to him now is a disaster for him and the team and this includes next year as well. Sure Maz was and is terrible but why take the chance to ruin Sarro's because MAz is terrible and Poile is is too damn stubborn to admit it was not a mistake to find a back-up in the last off season. Thats my biggest issue with Poile he just half ***** the roster 2'3 centers will still be an issue next year the Rinne Sarro's bus will roll on.

The bolded part you turned into "And a lil heads up Sarro's is not near as good as most here think". I can easily sit here and disprove anything you say about him not earning a job yet saying the exact opposite which is he hasn't done anything to show he shouldn't be playing. Regardless of what side someone falls on, the evidence doesn't support one side more than the other.

When you say "The eye test is wrong more than it is right and thats basically the mantra with Sarro's" I have no idea what you're talking about. What about Saros doesn't pass the eye test? I think I'd be hard pressed to find someone who watches Milwaukee on a nightly basis tell me this is true. And if something about him doesn't pass the eye test, what is something that he's currently doing that's worse than Rinne? If anything, I think he passes the eye test to the point that I'm worried he won't continue to improve and he'll eventually just be the guy that looked the part but couldn't put it together.

 

[Byrddog]

The bolded part you turned into "And a lil heads up Sarro's is not near as good as most here think". I can easily sit here and disprove anything you say about him not earning a job yet saying the exact opposite which is he hasn't done anything to show he shouldn't be playing. Regardless of what side someone falls on, the evidence doesn't support one side more than the other.

When you say "The eye test is wrong more than it is right and thats basically the mantra with Sarro's" I have no idea what you're talking about. What about Saros doesn't pass the eye test? I think I'd be hard pressed to find someone who watches Milwaukee on a nightly basis tell me this is true. And if something about him doesn't pass the eye test, what is something that he's currently doing that's worse than Rinne? If anything, I think he passes the eye test to the point that I'm worried he won't continue to improve and he'll eventually just be the guy that looked the part but couldn't put it together.

When referring to the eye test here it is in reference to all the praise he has gotten about being positionally sound tracking the puck ect ect. At times that is true even Eddie Lack looks good at times. And in time Sarro's could well be a superstar we do not know. But again historically goalies do not hit there prime uintil after age 24. Having a guy with potential ride the pine behind a guy who is going to be the starter until his contract is up is short sighted. if it delays Sarro's two years development then your looking at age 26 or 27 until he is at the top of his game.

Again he has 7 wins out of 17 games in the NHL this is below minimum expectaions most have of any back-up. A good back up wins 50% of there games under any circumstances. Do you not think it would be better to give the guy some time in the AHL and be ready to take his lumps when it is his turn. Or do you think 25 to 30 games a year as a back up and being sent down to get some games is in his or the teams best interest? I know there are those here right now that think Rinne should be benched and let Saoor's do what he can. Well thats a sure fire way to beat him out of the league. Its not that I want the guy rto fail I want him to succeed but you can bet every game he gets in the NHL other teams keep the book on him and next time arround can expose his weaknesses and he does have them. WIth some more age and alot more experience he would have a better chance to be successful. To ignore his win loss ratio now and just put him out there on potential is asinine. Even though he does some things well he is not winning. And at the end of the day thats what will keep the guy here.

 

[Yukon Cornellis]

<snip>What's up with this loser mentality? </snip>

Hello...is this your first time on the Preds boards??

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Again he has 7 wins out of 17 games in the NHL this is below minimum expectaions most have of any back-up.

This is so stupid. It's like judging a pitcher on his win/loss record.

Darcy Kuemper is 7-3-3 with a .905 save % and a 3.22 GAA.

Saros is 7-6-3 with a .925 save % and a 2.33 GAA.

Are you going to tell me Kuemper has been better than Saros this year because he has a better record? Like it's somehow Saros' fault that the team has scored 0 or 1 goal in over 20% of his starts?

 

[Drake744]

The job of a backup is not to win games. The job is to not suck and not be a liability. Saros has not sucked and has not been a liability. Like with any goalie, if you don't suck, the team should have a good chance to win a game.

The comparison between a starting pitcher and starting goalie is a good one. Putting emphasis on a win/loss record despite having stats that don't accurately reflect it is a bad way to judge.

 

[wadesworld]

Apparently Saros is Byrd's new whipping boy.

 

[Armourboy]

Apparently Saros is Byrd's new whipping boy.

It's ok, if we manage to win tonight he will be gone for a couple of days once again lol.

 

[Mypetrobot]

Yawn. People are saying arvy and Fiala are similar.

And people are making saros hasek reincarnated backing up Eddie.

Not sold on either but lately the team has been playing well of late. Even the PP is stepping it up.

 

[Scoresberg]

What's up with this loser mentality.

Just expressing the same mentality as our team. Nothing else.

 

[hockey diva]

Why was Lavy given an extension? I am beginning to think he can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

 

[Mass]

Eddie Lack, win/loss ratio, Hasek incarnate, where do people come up with this crap? Completely and totally irrelevant, not to mention, wrong.

 

[Scoresberg]

We need to shift Housley to player development (which he is brilliant at) and bring someone competent to be our defensive coach. With that player group, there should be no way in hell we're giving up that many goals. Our strength should still be our D but if Lavy wants to force that high-flying offensive style, then we should at least find someone who can coach that team to defens as a group not as a bunch of individuals.

 

[predfan98]

Why was Lavy given an extension? I am beginning to think he can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

Agree.

 

[Byrddog]

Eddie Lack, win/loss ratio, Hasek incarnate, where do people come up with this crap? Completely and totally irrelevant, not to mention, wrong.

Apparently you are not aware of his situation. It was sat night or sun night one that Bill Peters made the statement on NHL network " there are 60 goal tenders in the league including the back ups Eddie is number 60 in the league". So either your evaluation of Lacks play is incorrect or his coaches is. I think I will give the benefit of the doubt to the coach in this case, unless Lack can do something between now and the end of the year it is doubtful the 29 year old will be in the league going forward.

 

[bdub24]

Thanks for the good years Rinne. They are clearly behind you now.