Proposal: NYR-ANA

[pld459666]

There are some NYR fans that don't want Henrique because he scored a po goal against us to bump us out of the pos.

I personally think it's a silly reason.

Hes what we need in a 3rd line pivot and would be a significant upgrade on Brodzinski

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

There are some NYR fans that don't want Henrique because he scored a po goal against us to bump us out of the pos.

I personally think it's a silly reason.

Hes what we need in a 3rd line pivot and would be a significant upgrade on Brodzinski

Much prefer him over Frankie V. Id like him for a 2nd + B prospect. Higher than that id say no thanks.

 

[bernmeister]

People are missing the point of why you would trade for Henrique and Vatrano at the deadline. The only reason to do this is to win the cup. Thats it. You are paying more than other teams would for these players because they can help you win now, this year.

If your team isnt in a position to win the cup even with them then you dont trade. If your team is in a good position to win the cup then adding solid veterans can push you over the top. That is why its worth a 1st round pick that may not even end up an NHL player.

prob with this is win now fails time and time again
the cost of youth/future assets makes yr window smaller
REDUCES yr chance f winning the cup

 

[Rasp]

prob with this is win now fails time and time again
the cost of youth/future assets makes yr window smaller
REDUCES yr chance f winning the cup

Except when the other teams do it and always have an advantage over you because of it

 

[Bijelo]

Vatrano be a PP1 and also a PP2 at new team. New formation changes for the Rangers coach. Panarin is PP1.

Kakko be top 6 Ducks formation and PP1 and PP2. Kakko new star if he raises the level of play two good Ducks players with Finnish/Finn/Christian secret?

 

[gilfaizon]

Any team that would be able to add both Henrique and Vatrano would greatly increase their odds of winning a cup. Those guys being on a 3rd line somewhere would have major advantages against other teams 3rd lines.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Any team that would be able to add both Henrique and Vatrano would greatly increase their odds of winning a cup. Those guys being on a 3rd line somewhere would have major advantages against other teams 3rd lines.

Charmed, im sure

 

[bernmeister]

Except when the other teams do it and always have an advantage over you because of it

except if it is unsuccessful to begin with, which is usually the case, b'c making club better is not enuf, it must prevail on winning cup

and again they do not always have advantage, only MAYBE this yr
constant rentals = shortening the window with ongoing weaker position

 

[Crazy8oooo]

You can expect whatever you want. Rangers and other teams shouldn't overpay for a guy having an outlier season on a bad team with all the ice time.

Then let’s exclude his current season since it doesn’t seem to count according to some Ranger fans and take his last year numbers (40+points and 20+ goals), he still produced at a second liner rate. More than the same player, Kakko, who is untouchable for the Rangers. It’s ok if you don’t want him, but at least give him the credit he’s due. Maybe he was a late bloomer but the fact remains that last season and this season, he’s put up solid top 6 numbers.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Then let’s exclude his current season since it doesn’t seem to count according to some Ranger fans and take his last year numbers (40+points and 20+ goals), he still produced at a second liner rate. More than the same player, Kakko, who is untouchable for the Rangers. It’s ok if you don’t want him, but at least give him the credit he’s due. Maybe he was a late bloomer but the fact remains that last season and this season, he’s put up solid top 6 numbers.

I like Frank. Liked him as a Ranger. But he's not a good defensive forward. Kakko is. I hope you guys get something good for him i just think its buyer beware with a career best 15.5% shooting percentage and all the ice time he's getting that he wont on a playoff team.

 

[QJL]

Imagine thinking he’s a main piece in a deal for a star player

Never said he’d be the main piece in a deal

 

[pld459666]

Vatrano be a PP1 and also a PP2 at new team. New formation changes for the Rangers coach. Panarin is PP1.

Kakko be top 6 Ducks formation and PP1 and PP2. Kakko new star if he raises the level of play two good Ducks players with Finnish/Finn/Christian secret?

Vatrano is not moving Mika, Panarin, Kreider or Trocheck off PP1

 

[smoneil]

Then let’s exclude his current season since it doesn’t seem to count according to some Ranger fans and take his last year numbers (40+points and 20+ goals), he still produced at a second liner rate. More than the same player, Kakko, who is untouchable for the Rangers. It’s ok if you don’t want him, but at least give him the credit he’s due. Maybe he was a late bloomer but the fact remains that last season and this season, he’s put up solid top 6 numbers.

He literally scored 1 more point than Kakko last season. Only 1 more point. Despite getting PP time (that Kakko didn't get, accounting for 25% of his scoring). Kakko had 5 more ES points last year than Vatrano. Despite Vatrano playing almost a minute and a half more per game. And all while giving zero effort on defense (an abysmal -29, nearly the worst on the Ducks last year only behind Ryan Strome's -30). And all while being 7 years older than Kakko.

Frank is shooting 5% above his career shooting average this season. This isn't a "late bloomer." It's an outlier season, just like Kreider's 50 goal year. It doesn't make either player bad--Kreids is still a 30-40 goal scorer. But how would you react if Rangers fans expected Ducks fans to pay the "50 goal scorer" price for a guy like Kreider? Not only is it not reasonable, but Vatrano just isn't the right fit for the Rangers to begin with.

 

[smoneil]

There are some NYR fans that don't want Henrique because he scored a po goal against us to bump us out of the pos.

I personally think it's a silly reason.

Hes what we need in a 3rd line pivot and would be a significant upgrade on Brodzinski

He's not bad if the price is right, but my issue is with his relative lack of playoff experience (ie: the sole reason we would look to acquire him) rather than ancient history. I had the same qualms about Nash when the Rangers traded for him, and low and behold, it took him a few playoff runs to get a feel for playoff hockey (by which time the rest of the team wasn't good enough). I'd prefer bringing in a player with more/more recent/more successful playoff bonafides. If no such player proves available, I don't have a problem with Henrique as the backup plan.

 

[pld459666]

He's not bad if the price is right, but my issue is with his relative lack of playoff experience (ie: the sole reason we would look to acquire him) rather than ancient history. I had the same qualms about Nash when the Rangers traded for him, and low and behold, it took him a few playoff runs to get a feel for playoff hockey (by which time the rest of the team wasn't good enough). I'd prefer bringing in a player with more/more recent/more successful playoff bonafides. If no such player proves available, I don't have a problem with Henrique as the backup plan.

I think the acquisition is more about solidifying a 3rd line with a guy tjat can create offense a bit more reliably than Brodzinski while not losing anything defensively.

I want PO production as well, but different systems and line mates may produce different results.

Again, we're not looking for him to come in and carry the load.

 

[smoneil]

People are missing the point of why you would trade for Henrique and Vatrano at the deadline. The only reason to do this is to win the cup. Thats it. You are paying more than other teams would for these players because they can help you win now, this year.

If your team isnt in a position to win the cup even with them then you dont trade. If your team is in a good position to win the cup then adding solid veterans can push you over the top. That is why its worth a 1st round pick that may not even end up an NHL player.

Nobody is missing anything. It isn't a question of adding or not adding. It's a question of adding the right parts. Case in point--a player like Reilly Smith is likely available for a mid-round pick. He hasn't been AS productive as Vatrano this year, but he's much more defensively responsible and has a phenomenal track record of raising his game in the playoffs. He's a player who knows what it takes to win a Stanley Cup. If you had a team that was looking for a guy to play mostly ES hockey, who would you pick? The defensive sieve who scores a bit more, or the guy who has been there and consistently raises his game when it matters? I know where I'd spend my money.

There are several options on the market who will cost FAR less than Vatrano to acquire, but who will be just as good (if not better) in the role the Rangers are looking to fill.

 

[smoneil]

I think the acquisition is more about solidifying a 3rd line with a guy tjat can create offense a bit more reliably than Brodzinski while not losing anything defensively.

I want PO production as well, but different systems and line mates may produce different results.

Again, we're not looking for him to come in and carry the load.

I get that, but the middle six is where I want that playoff experience the most. Those are the guys who often make the difference between winning and losing a series. If there are no such centers available (which is entirely possible, as we'd need it to be an expiring contract), then I have no problem with Henrique. It's a bit of a pipe dream and far more of an offseason move, but I'd still love to bring in Mittelstadt for that line. With the W prospects coming up, that would really give the team three top six lines.

 

[Rasp]

Nobody is missing anything. It isn't a question of adding or not adding. It's a question of adding the right parts. Case in point--a player like Reilly Smith is likely available for a mid-round pick. He hasn't been AS productive as Vatrano this year, but he's much more defensively responsible and has a phenomenal track record of raising his game in the playoffs. He's a player who knows what it takes to win a Stanley Cup. If you had a team that was looking for a guy to play mostly ES hockey, who would you pick? The defensive sieve who scores a bit more, or the guy who has been there and consistently raises his game when it matters? I know where I'd spend my money.

There are several options on the market who will cost FAR less than Vatrano to acquire, but who will be just as good (if not better) in the role the Rangers are looking to fill.

Then you should probably create a NYR-PIT thread. Henrique/Vatrano will go to the team that pays the most not the team that wants to pay less because they prefer other options

 

[Crazy8oooo]

I like Frank. Liked him as a Ranger. But he's not a good defensive forward. Kakko is. I hope you guys get something good for him i just think its buyer beware with a career best 15.5% shooting percentage and all the ice time he's getting that he wont on a playoff team.

That works and I completely understand your reservations. I might add though that while he may not get the same amount of time on a playoff team, he’d be a great middle six player for a playoff team who could fill in on the top lines should someone get injured. And for the record, I’m not saying the Rangers should trade Kakko for him.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

He literally scored 1 more point than Kakko last season. Only 1 more point. Despite getting PP time (that Kakko didn't get, accounting for 25% of his scoring). Kakko had 5 more ES points last year than Vatrano. Despite Vatrano playing almost a minute and a half more per game. And all while giving zero effort on defense (an abysmal -29, nearly the worst on the Ducks last year only behind Ryan Strome's -30). And all while being 7 years older than Kakko.

Frank is shooting 5% above his career shooting average this season. This isn't a "late bloomer." It's an outlier season, just like Kreider's 50 goal year. It doesn't make either player bad--Kreids is still a 30-40 goal scorer. But how would you react if Rangers fans expected Ducks fans to pay the "50 goal scorer" price for a guy like Kreider? Not only is it not reasonable, but Vatrano just isn't the right fit for the Rangers to begin with.

Well to start, I never said the Rangers should take this deal. I never gave any input on the OP. And quite frankly, I don’t think the Rangers should include Kakko for these types of players either.

My comments were in response to Vatrano being talked down and not given credit for how he’s played the past couple of seasons. I don’t care whether this is an outlier year, in fact, I even said it can be dismissed when gauging his value and went on to add that he was an over 40 point/20goal player last season which is top six production. How do you explain last season since you won’t give any credit to this season? Was that just another outlier season as well? It’s very reasonable to say that he’s finally finding another level at a later age.

 

[bernmeister]

Then you should probably create a NYR-PIT thread. Henrique/Vatrano will go to the team that pays the most not the team that wants to pay less because they prefer other options

you should create a thread value of Henrique and/or Vatrano and see what you get and from whom

they are not a fit for NY esp at price ANA has a right to ask

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

you should create a thread value of Henrique and/or Vatrano and see what you get and from whom

they are not a fit for NY esp at price ANA has a right to ask

I think Henrique at 50 % to rangers for a 2nd + prospect is prob not a bad move for rangers

Hell we could even throw in prospects we have that we might not keep going forward….

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I think Henrique at 50 % to rangers for a 2nd + prospect is prob not a bad move for rangers

Hell we could even throw in prospects we have that we might not keep going forward….

Id do like 2nd + Bryce McConnell-Barker/Zac Jones/Adam Sykora from a Rangers perspective.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Id do like 2nd + Bryce McConnell-Barker/Zac Jones/Adam Sykora from a Rangers perspective.

I think that’s a good ball park offer… I’m just curious to see if PV ships some prospects out to make room, while helping facilitate trades.

Also wonder if moore/colangelo are going to sign in Anaheim or if we’re going to look to move them like thrun

 

[tomd]

Id do like 2nd + Bryce McConnell-Barker/Zac Jones/Adam Sykora from a Rangers perspective.

If the Rangers were the only team looking for a middle six center that might be a fair offer. Unfortunately for the Rangers there are several teams in the hunt and Henrique is the top center available. It is a sellers market and the price will reflect that.